A schizofrenic Micaiah

[Ingen]

I'm sure some of you have seen that mental institution thing on youtube but anyway... She would have an odd perspective on the world and an odd way of expression. She talks about voices in her head and yet the things those voices say can be acted upon. That voice would be Yune and there would be no bird. And you wonder why Sanaki is the Begnion empress?

The effect is that they would listen to her seemingly nonsensical babbling with the only reason of her voice seeing the future being the observed, suggested results. I can't really describe the way her followers would feel... How would you feel if this savior and liberator came up kicking ass while being a delusional maniac who hears voices in her head that SOMEHOW predicts the future and can act on it? Such a thing seems highly attractive yet almost equally repulsive. It sure is something to get the enemies' minds all screwed up, wouldn't you say?

"Reality you say? Ooh! I guess you guys never taught me to see it YOUR way, did'ya now?"

But oddly enough, her perspectives does make sense if you think about them deeply enough.

Mad Queen Micaiah.

[Junkhead]

IS is to blame.

[Adam Smasher]

cool story, bro

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm sure some of you have seen that mental institution thing on youtube but anyway... She would have an odd perspective on the world and an odd way of expression. She talks about voices in her head and yet the things those voices say can be acted upon. That voice would be Yune and there would be no bird. And you wonder why Sanaki is the Begnion empress?

The effect is that they would listen to her seemingly nonsensical babbling with the only reason of her voice seeing the future being the observed, suggested results. I can't really describe the way her followers would feel... How would you feel if this savior and liberator came up kicking ass while being a delusional maniac who hears voices in her head that SOMEHOW predicts the future and can act on it? Such a thing seems highly attractive yet almost equally repulsive. It sure is something to get the enemies' minds all screwed up, wouldn't you say?

"Reality you say? Ooh! I guess you guys never taught me to see it YOUR way, did'ya now?"

But oddly enough, her perspectives does make sense if you think about them deeply enough.

Mad Queen Micaiah.

This reminds me of Rand Al'Thor and Lews Therin Telamon. Only Rand hears things about the past that just happen to be true, and finds out about weaves that just happen to work, etc.

(Also post #3 is borderline spam. post #2 could at least be construed as adding something to the topic.)

Edited April 11, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Junkhead]

Well, it's true...despite not minding part of her Mary Sueness, I don't like how they made other characters around her kinda generic, bland and...somewhat brainless. I didn't like all the high praise she got, it seems like an exageration considering the Dawn Brigade was just a little group who liberated Daein WITH the help of Daein soldiers also, but they only seem to recognize her and not the Black Knight or Pelleas. Ike is in a slightly bigger group, he helped saved a great part of Tellius in FE9, a whole continent, yet, it's not like everyone is taking HUGE praise on him for that.

[Fireman]

Well, it's true...despite not minding part of her Mary Sueness, I don't like how they made other characters around her kinda generic, bland and...somewhat brainless. I didn't like all the high praise she got, it seems like an exageration considering the Dawn Brigade was just a little group who liberated Daein WITH the help of Daein soldiers also, but they only seem to recognize her and not the Black Knight or Pelleas. Ike is in a slightly bigger group, he helped saved a great part of Tellius in FE9, a whole continent, yet, it's not like everyone is taking HUGE praise on him for that.

Using your reasoning here, Ike did save a great part of Tellius, but he did it with the help of armies from Gallia, Phoenicis, Kilvas, and not to mention the huge-ass Begnion army and their awesomesauce commander, Zelgius. So Micaiah liberated Daein with a moderate-sized army and Ike saved Tellius with the world for an army. I guess they're even...?

[Junkhead]

Well, yes, they are even. But I actually feel that the huge praising is exagerated, I mean- A godess?

[Anouleth]

Well, Ike is praised a great deal in Crimea. It only makes sense that the Daeins would praise Micaiah, when she liberated Daein from a far worse threat (The Begnion occupation is shown as being far harsher than the Daein occupation). And IS are clearly aware of this, since they have characters like Pelleas and Izuka and Sothe point it out.

[grandjackal]

Not sure if this should count as spoilers, considering that it's already mentioned in the first post, but if it is let me know and I'll amend my post.

When it came to the re-imagining of things in a topic I made (that died), I mentioned this exact thing. Problem is the way it's executed in-game makes it so that in the end she was entirely right and there WAS a goddess talking to her, so she was just the mary sue of usual. If there wasn't, Michaiah would have actually been an excellently made character and perhaps even a great villain.

However...there's just so much storyline crap in this game. It still pisses me off, because PoR had a great story and great build-up.

Man, I need to find that game again. I'm pissed that I lost it.

[Integrity]

To be perfectly honest, after hearing it roughly three times I'm already tired of this topic. Why must it keep resurfacing?

[Junkhead]

Well, Ike is praised a great deal in Crimea. It only makes sense that the Daeins would praise Micaiah, when she liberated Daein from a far worse threat (The Begnion occupation is shown as being far harsher than the Daein occupation). And IS are clearly aware of this, since they have characters like Pelleas and Izuka and Sothe point it out.

But they didn't call him a god either, the Begnion occupation's army is not even that big.

[Anouleth]

But they didn't call him a god either, the Begnion occupation's army is not even that big.

It's specifically mentioned that the Begnion army commits terrible atrocities in Daein, and we see them... the internment camps, and the killing of civilians in 1-1, 1-8 and 1-E. By comparison, the Daein army leaves the people of Crimea pretty much to themselves in PoR. So it's natural for the people of Daein to praise Mickey more. In addition, she demonstrates miraculous powers such as healing without staves and foresight.

I don't remember the Daeins ever specifically calling her a goddess, actually.

Not sure if this should count as spoilers, considering that it's already mentioned in the first post, but if it is let me know and I'll amend my post.

When it came to the re-imagining of things in a topic I made (that died), I mentioned this exact thing. Problem is the way it's executed in-game makes it so that in the end she was entirely right and there WAS a goddess talking to her, so she was just the mary sue of usual. If there wasn't, Michaiah would have actually been an excellently made character and perhaps even a great villain.

However...there's just so much storyline crap in this game. It still pisses me off, because PoR had a great story and great build-up.

Man, I need to find that game again. I'm pissed that I lost it.

I think you're overreacting. While I don't think the storyline in this game was handled well, it's better than most FEs. It's certainly more ambitious than the typical 'omg evil country taking over world and sometimes they team up with Satan' that you get.

[Junkhead]

Soren did mention they see her as one. What bothers me is how brainless IS made the generic characters.

[Fireman]

What bothers me is how brainless IS made the generic characters.

Isn't that what they usually do?

[grandjackal]

I think you're overreacting. While I don't think the storyline in this game was handled well, it's better than most FEs. It's certainly more ambitious than the typical 'omg evil country taking over world and sometimes they team up with Satan' that you get.

Ok fine, Begnion, the evil country, teams up with basically God instead of Satan to do it.

In fact, God/Satan don't even seem involved, it's just evil country taking over the world, then "Oh wait, we need a final boss. Make it Ashera, who gives a shit why, closest connection we have to something mighty enough to be considered final boss proportions". It's just "Blood Contracts for everybody!" Then Sephiran's like "I'm gonna awaken Ashera now, game's dragged on long enough and now it's final boss time".

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

This reminds me of Rand Al'Thor and Lews Therin Telamon. Only Rand hears things about the past that just happen to be true, and finds out about weaves that just happen to work, etc.

(Also post #3 is borderline spam. post #2 could at least be construed as adding something to the topic.)

Wheel of Time FTW.

I suppose that'd be cool.

[Anouleth]

Ok fine, Begnion, the evil country, teams up with basically God instead of Satan to do it.

In fact, God/Satan don't even seem involved, it's just evil country taking over the world, then "Oh wait, we need a final boss. Make it Ashera, who gives a shit why, closest connection we have to something mighty enough to be considered final boss proportions". It's just "Blood Contracts for everybody!" Then Sephiran's like "I'm gonna awaken Ashera now, game's dragged on long enough and now it's final boss time".

I don't think Ashera was that out of place. I mean, the concept of order vs chaos is something that was running through PoR as well, and you could tell it was inevitable that the dark god would awaken at some point.

Blood contracts pissed me off though. I wouldn't care if they had been mentioned at some point in the game, but the way they show up just so Micaiah and Ike can duke it out instead of giving them a legitimate reason for war... ugh. Same goes for the whole 'hey it's part 4 the goddess of order has awoken and is trying to destroy the world because everyone is evil' and you think 'okay, that makes sense kinda' and then she brings back all the most evil assholes in the world to fight for her, because you have to fight them at some point, right, even if it doesn't make any sense?

Parts 1 and 2 were fine, though. On par with FE9, with all the Pelleas and Elincia development.

[Junkhead]

Isn't that what they usually do?

I actually expected an answer like this, but I actually do think they are worse here.

Blood contracts pissed me off though. I wouldn't care if they had been mentioned at some point in the game, but the way they show up just so Micaiah and Ike can duke it out instead of giving them a legitimate reason for war... ugh.

Totally agreed with this. Was it so hard for Micaiah to ask Pelleas what the heck was going on? And why would they go on a killing spree? Micaiah's relation with Pelleas wasn't exactly "servant-lord" type, they were more like friends, Pelleas actually trusted her.

[BrightBow]

While the blood pact seems to me like a cheap way to make the Apostel's army and Daein, I must also say that the idea did have some potential. The problem is that they never established how the Blood Pact works. PoR theme of why the races of Telius think so low of each other, also ended up leading to the question why once position in society is predetermined at birth, may it be as a slave or as a king. So therefore I had quite some problem with the fact that a king has the power to kill all of it's people through some kind of vague magic.

Why can he do that? Why is he connected to the people of Daein like that? By Beorc rules he is not even a real king since he is not Ashnard's son. So was it the ceremony that gave him such literal power over his people? Was it because the people belived in the order of their society and therefore considered Pellas their king after he was crowned and that way allowed them to be affected by it? Would people like Sothe who don't really care enough to consider him their king, be affected by the curse? Or people who consider him their king but are not loyal to him like Jill and Zihark? Nothing about it is explained.

If there was any explanation about how the curse worked the way it does, it would actually be a nice plot point and it would fit in the theme but in the way it's used in the game... well, it's just not that good of a plot point. I wonder if the extended script containes at last some information about the Blood Pact but at last with the script we got there is nothing to work with.

Btw, how come Pellas signed a contract with his blood and didn't think that there is anything odd about it?

Edited April 12, 2010 by BrightBow-User

[Narga_Rocks]

Btw, how come Pellas signed a contract with his blood and didn't think that there is anything odd about it?

Well, there's a reason people think Pelleas is a moron. I would assume the obviously evil Izuka that Pelleas never thought was evil would have played a part in convincing him to sign it. Or he was just so thrilled to think the oppression of his country was over that it never occurred to him that the very people responsible for the oppression might not be the most trustworthy folks. (Again, what an idiot.)

[Anouleth]

I always assumed that the name Blood Contract was just a name. It's never specified that you actually sign the contract in blood.

Also, Pelleas had valid reasons to trust Izuka. He explains this in 1-8, when he tells Micaiah how Izuka rescued him from poverty and gave him the support he needed to gather an army.

[Junkhead]

It still sucks that Micaiah didn't dare question someone that trusted her. They could've just find a way to deal with it from the shadows, like say, hire Volke to kill Lekain or whom ever had the contract.

[NinjaMonkey]

It still sucks that Micaiah didn't dare question someone that trusted her. They could've just find a way to deal with it from the shadows, like say, hire Volke to kill Lekain or whom ever had the contract.

And miss out on killing a load of Laguz/getting all that EXP? Hell, no! Anyway, I thought having her talk to that blasted bird was weird enough...

[grandjackal]

I don't think Ashera was that out of place.

How was she NOT? It's weird to see a religion in-game be so closely followed by apparently an empire and it turns out their religion was the true one, and even went as far as to grant their asshole senators command of the last army on Tellius, whom I'm positive broke some religious traditions to do the shit they did? That is, unless their religion didn't HAVE any tennants to follow by, which case Ashera's "oh so orderous" religion is by far the most laid back religion ever. For being "Order Incarnate", nothing really seems to make sense to that end. I'd have an easier time believing that their religion was false/not to be proven and they simply followed a theology they had long since done.

Though it does make me think an interesting thought. Asherayune. She is called a Goddess, yet look at Michaiah. They I believe called her the Goddess of Dawn once. Who is to say Asherayune is a goddess? Degh? He claims that she made everything, including him. How does he know it was her that created him? She said so? We know he wasn't there to watch her do it, otherwise everyone would be worshipping him as a god. Who's to say she didn't just say that for her own ends? Who's to say they (whatever she "made" ) was the first? She could just be of one long dead civilization (Stefan's desert, the ruins hint at a long past civilization, was never referenced since), and was simply the most powerful sorceress in history, and everyone believed her to be Goddess. Seeing war rise and fall, perhaps she felt burdened by having such destructive powers. Thus, she removed her concious thought (notice how Yune basically possessed a bird and possessed Michaiah, and in the end you see her in etheral form. After all, an idea, that being conciousness, is not a solid object) to let it drift, and her might in Lehran's Medallion. Lehran was the one who put her in the tower away from all others as he really believed she was a goddess and thus awakened her out of superstition that her prophecy came true rather than the emo-villain typical "people suck, I want them dead!" reason (why DOES LEhran, who is a prime minister, have the ability to awaken the goddess over let's say Sanaki or Michaiah anyways? Lehran might be a holy man, but he's not gifted to have any sort of actual connection with the Goddess herself. For a goddess, she seems to appreciate rank over actual holiness, prime minister is just a lawful position compared to the Empress who's supposed to be like the freaking pope). Thus the profecy, blah blah blah...

...Well it's a lot better than "she's a pissed off goddess, now the world shall be destroyed!".

I think too hard on what should be basic shit...

I mean, the concept of order vs chaos is something that was running through PoR as well, and you could tell it was inevitable that the dark god would awaken at some point.

I don't recall a single moment where order and chaos were a huge key point in the plot of FE9. FE9 seemed more political minded than anything. Ashnard invaded Crimea because Ashnard thought his way to rule was better, they were doing it wrong, time to show them what's what. He attempted to change the political landscape through war by basically demolishing it at it's core, then reshape it's society from the ground up. He might have been crazy, but at least he was idealistic. He was not defeated by order, or chaos, he was simply defeated by an army lended by Begnion to help get Elincia's rightful country back.

Even with the medallion, the reason would not be order versus chaos, but simply implies more motive to stop Ashnard, as they only know as much that if his war spreads across the continent that this thing apparently was supposed end the world. That's less "There has to be order!" and more "I don't want this nuclear bomb to go off!".

Even considering all of that, RD fails to really define their struggle as "order vs chaos" as it's more "Good vs Evil", the classic "I am right and you are wrong". Even Hetzel wasn't spared and he knew he did wrong, he was willing to give up. He could have been imprisoned, he could have been punished somehow for his wrongs. Nope, he's on "their side", so he's gonna be slaughtered like anyone else, never to be rightfulyl punished simply because he's "one of them", and "them" is wrong, and wrong must die as fast as possible.

Blood contracts pissed me off though. I wouldn't care if they had been mentioned at some point in the game, but the way they show up just so Micaiah and Ike can duke it out instead of giving them a legitimate reason for war... ugh. Same goes for the whole 'hey it's part 4 the goddess of order has awoken and is trying to destroy the world because everyone is evil' and you think 'okay, that makes sense kinda' and then she brings back all the most evil assholes in the world to fight for her, because you have to fight them at some point, right, even if it doesn't make any sense?

My idea that Ashera's not actually a goddess would make that make sense, but overall you actually point out the major flaw in how it's all delivered. "Goddess tries to destroy world because everyone is evil". Everything is evil? Seriously? How does one define evil, and how did everyone suddenly become it? Some goddess. Pfft.

The blood contracts themselves though...Rock stupid. I'm surprised upon hearing that Pelleas signed the damn thing when every single red flag possible was raised that he absolutely shouldn't even trust any of the people that convinced him didn't just lob his head off with a sword where he stood. They were going through kings like tissue paper lately, I think they could make do with him dying. Would even show that Ashnard's influence has had itself ingrained in these people, considering that's how he thought bad kings should be dealt with.

Parts 1 and 2 were fine, though. On par with FE9, with all the Pelleas and Elincia development.

Ehhh, part 1 was a bit to Dudley-Do-Right. Part 2? Most certainly fine, and I love it. Downhill from there.

[NinjaMonkey]

Ehhh, part 1 was a bit to Dudley-Do-Right. Part 2? Most certainly fine, and I love it. Downhill from there.

Really? I'd say Parts 1, 3 and 4 were good and that Part 2 is nothing more than filler...

Edited April 12, 2010 by NinjaMonkey