the concept of negative utility should spread across tier lists

[Dat Nick]

Needing to deploy a scr00b like Rolf in a piss easy game like FE9 is a non-issue at it's worst, especially since unit slots won't always be filled.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Detective Badd

[Narga_Rocks]

Needing to deploy a scr00b like Rolf in a piss easy game like FE9 is a non-issue at it's worst, especially since unit slots won't always be filled.

Yeah, the trick is getting him to talk to Shinon considering:

There are at least two units with ranged tomes that will likely ORKO a base Rolf.

Shinon has crit and a brave bow so even with his stats he can cause a significant amount of damage to units that aren't Mordy/Muarim/Gatrie/Brom.

There is at least one unit with a ranged tome that is beyond Shinon, meaning you'd need to keep Shinon alive while running past him to KO the mage that will otherwise KO Rolf while also not letting Shinon + another unit KO anyone.

Now, I found this very very easy when I had my 20/1 (or whatever he was) Rolf participating. And with my level 20 Volke (stupid late forced promotion) I could even steal the bolting/meteor/whatever it was. But with a level 1 Rolf I have to assume that this ain't easy. Not on the level of recruiting Xavier, of course, but it's gotta be worse than most recruitments in fire emblem. Probably worse than Aira's and Hannibal's, for example. Hannibal can be put to sleep in a game that has a repairable sleep staff. In other words, why the heck not? Certainly worse than Douglas' recruitment. A: you need to leave him alive to get the S rank to get to chapter 23+. B: it's really easy anyway to just let Thany or someone dodge-tank with an Elixir handy in case Douglas pulls off a <10% hit chance.

[Rewjeo]

Well, if we aren't using Rolf, do we care if he dies after recruiting Shinon? Or is the mage in a position that makes it so that Rolf has to spend one turn in its range before talking to Shinon?

[Scarlet]

Well, if we aren't using Rolf, do we care if he dies after recruiting Shinon? Or is the mage in a position that makes it so that Rolf has to spend one turn in its range before talking to Shinon?

The latter. The sage camps behind a wall and can snipe at Rolf like two turns before he could possibly have a talk with Shinon. I can't remember how much Atk it had though. If it's 26 or less (it's a Blizzard tome, so it's possible), base!Rolf can survive one hit of it if he's warded in the Player Phase.

[Snowy_One]

Of course it applies to high tier units. I've never disputed that recruitment costs for ALL characters should be counted as relevant.

The problem is, more often than not, said high tier units justify their recruitment cost. So they don't get penalized as much.

By this do you mean that higher-tier units would be penalized equally? Ergo, if a low-tier unit and a high-tier unit were recruited in the exact same way, both would be penalized, but it's just that the high-tier unit is still worth more anyways. Or do you mean that if a low-tier and a high-tier unit were recruited in the exact same way, the low-tier unit would be penalized harder for 'not being worth it' while the high-tier unit would receive little more than a wrist-slap (comparatively) because he was better?

Also... I am a bit curious... Just how many tiers do you think don't include it already as a standard? I know my FE9 tier didn't, but Shinon was the only one with anything even close to that overall to be worth mentioning, but that is a personal list and this topic has no bearing on my personal standards.

[Dat Nick]

Or do you mean that if a low-tier and a high-tier unit were recruited in the exact same way, the low-tier unit would be penalized harder for 'not being worth it' while the high-tier unit would receive little more than a wrist-slap (comparatively) because he was better?

If this is the difference between being worth your recruitment cost and not being worth your recruitment cost, then yes.

[Snowy_One]

Erm... Then I would say there is a problem because the standard is not being applied equally.