Severe Tension In the Koreas

[Judas]

You can read about it here (especially the Response section): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinking#Reaction

But since I know most of you aren't going to, here's the basic premise. When the Korean War ended back in 1953 and the borders were set between the two nations, there was little provision made as to the oceanic boundary between the two nations. As such, there is a specific rich fishing ground on the oceanic border that both sides claim as their own, and several naval clashes have occurred here, although nothing incredibly serious. Recently, however, a South Korean corvette carrying over a hundred personnel was sunk by what was discovered to be a North Korean submarine, killing over forty of the South Koreans onboard, and of course destroying the corvette. South Korea was outraged by this blatant military action, and a chief naval officer in South Korea demanded that those behind the attack be punished, and that South Korea also buff up its Navy (an interesting proposal, don't you think?). South Korea today also announced that it was placing a full economic embargo on the North, which is basically the most serious action that South Korea can perform short of outright military action. The South has also stated that they intend to resume "psychological warfare" against North Korean border guards by shouting propaganda to them from across the demilitarized zone. The North has responded that they will shoot and kill anyone doing this type of psychological warfare. The North has also railed against the "puppet government" of the South and said that they are blowing an honest accident out of proportion and are using it to trump up charges against the North.

Basically, the two sides are in a huge argument with each other and diplomacy is being strained right now. Unless some clear-headed leaders take effective action quickly, it may be possible that we could be getting dangerously close to a resumption of the Korean War.

[Phoenix]

The south says they'll shout propaganda, and the north says they'll straight up shoot people who do that? I hope this doesn't go anything like the civil war or south Korea is in for hard times ... and banjos ... and incest.

[Roxas]

My dad's so edgy on this, he left about 45 minutes ago to catch a plane to South Korea to help around my grandpa and cousins. :/

[peener weener]

Oh, shit.

If North Korea is threatening of outright shooting opposers, South Korea should shut it, since it could break into a war.

STHU, South.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Oh god, professional Starcraft is being threatened!

But seriously, it's kind of hard to deal with the NorKs. South Korea is in kind of an unfortunate situation.

[the_whistler]

Urk...... the two Koreas will never probably come to any permanent peace. But as long as they're just arguing and not outright killing people (yet), at least that means things haven't boiled over.

Nothing really to do but wait and see how things turn out : (

[Phoenix]

Urgh ... just give North Korea the fishing waters before Kim starts launching missiles out of spite, and kidnapping journalists again. You can always import fish from other countries. They likely can't since they're so hostile.

[General Spoon]

Urgh ... just give North Korea the fishing waters before Kim starts launching missiles out of spite, and kidnapping journalists again. You can always import fish from other countries. They likely can't since they're so hostile.

This is a great idea. While we're at it, we should give Kim Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland as well.

[Esau of Isaac]

Urgh ... just give North Korea the fishing waters before Kim starts launching missiles out of spite, and kidnapping journalists again. You can always import fish from other countries. They likely can't since they're so hostile.

Because the DPRK will totally stop being antagonistic after that right?

Appeasement's been tried and failed multiple times. Shit don't work.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Esau of Isaac

[Deliriyum]

If there was a war, wouldn't South Korea get plenty of allies?

[General Spoon]

If there was a war, wouldn't South Korea get plenty of allies?

You see, its not quite that simple.

[Phoenix]

This is a great idea. While we're at it, we should give Kim Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland as well.

Your sarcasm isn't necessary.

South Korea giving them a inch/mile isn't the same as everyone else doing the same.

@ Esau

So North Korea is basically a spoiled kid with a gun?

[Freohr Datia]

You can read about it here (especially the Response section): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROKS_Cheonan_sinking#Reaction

But since I know most of you aren't going to, here's the basic premise. When the Korean War ended back in 1953 and the borders were set between the two nations, there was little provision made as to the oceanic boundary between the two nations. As such, there is a specific rich fishing ground on the oceanic border that both sides claim as their own, and several naval clashes have occurred here, although nothing incredibly serious. Recently, however, a South Korean corvette carrying over a hundred personnel was sunk by what was discovered to be a North Korean submarine, killing over forty of the South Koreans onboard, and of course destroying the corvette. South Korea was outraged by this blatant military action, and a chief naval officer in South Korea demanded that those behind the attack be punished, and that South Korea also buff up its Navy (an interesting proposal, don't you think?). South Korea today also announced that it was placing a full economic embargo on the North, which is basically the most serious action that South Korea can perform short of outright military action. The South has also stated that they intend to resume "psychological warfare" against North Korean border guards by shouting propaganda to them from across the demilitarized zone. The North has responded that they will shoot and kill anyone doing this type of psychological warfare. The North has also railed against the "puppet government" of the South and said that they are blowing an honest accident out of proportion and are using it to trump up charges against the North.

Basically, the two sides are in a huge argument with each other and diplomacy is being strained right now. Unless some clear-headed leaders take effective action quickly, it may be possible that we could be getting dangerously close to a resumption of the Korean War.

Really, I kinda got that impression too...

Everything is communism's fault.

[the_whistler]

I don't think it's communism's fault per say as much as it's Kim's fault. He's the crazy power hungry leader with weapons >.< From what I know, communism at it's heart is just a really idealistic theory advocating class equality. It just never works in real life unless you use complete military control and get rid of all political liberties.

Why must crazy leaders all have weapons? :(

[Esau of Isaac]

If there was a war, wouldn't South Korea get plenty of allies?

If there was a war, Seoul would be flattened in a matter of minutes. The end result of the war would be millions of lives having been lost.

@ Esau

So North Korea is basically a spoiled kid with a gun?

Ayup.

[Snike]

So, we're at a flash point, I guess. Not cool.

[Ingen]

I don't think it's communism's fault per say as much as it's Kim's fault. He's the crazy power hungry leader with weapons >.< From what I know, communism at it's heart is just a really idealistic theory advocating class equality. It just never works in real life unless you use complete military control and get rid of all political liberties.

Why must crazy leaders all have weapons? :(

Class equality? That's a laugh. Strict government control is more like it.

It really might come to war... What is stopping the North from attacking the South right now?

Heh, wars aren't going away anytime soon. It's way too profitable for a certain group of people. Think about it... "There is nothing more costly than war" they say... But where does all that money go?

[bunny: spider bitten]

I'm sorry, but the topic title just made it sound like a part of the body.

"Sir, you have cancer in your Korea."

It could happen.

Anyway, they are still 'technically' at war. I don't think I'd mind a war too much either if North Korea forces it. A good way to essentially swat them out of concerns. At least, if they're all talk anyway.

Edited June 5, 2010 by bunny: Now with Pancakes

[Esau of Isaac]

I'm sorry, but the topic title just made it sound like a part of the body.

"Sir, you have cancer in your Korea."

It could happen.

Anyway, they are still 'technically' at war. I don't think I'd mind a war too much either if North Korea forces it. A good way to essentially swat them out of concerns. At least, if they're all talk anyway.

Somehow I don't think you're looking at what a war in the Koreas would entail at this point.

[bunny: spider bitten]

Somehow I don't think you're looking at what a war in the Koreas would entail at this point.

Largely depends on who starts it, a with any war.

If North Korea starts it, China may very well sit back and do nothing. It's not something China wants. Also depends on who get involved. But everything suggests that, aside from a Nuke, South Korea would probably win.

It's never cool to just take war 'lightly', but at the end of the day, it would make for the best opportunity to solve a problem.

[Esau of Isaac]

Largely depends on who starts it, a with any war.

If North Korea starts it, China may very well sit back and do nothing. It's not something China wants. Also depends on who get involved. But everything suggests that, aside from a Nuke, South Korea would probably win.

It's never cool to just take war 'lightly', but at the end of the day, it would make for the best opportunity to solve a problem.

Millions of people dying would make for the best opportunity to solve this problem?

I'm sorry, what?

[bunny: spider bitten]

Millions of people dying would make for the best opportunity to solve this problem?

I'm sorry, what?

Let's play the what if game!

A) North Korea has Nukes. What if? Millions of people die. Possibly Americans.

B)North Korea attacks South Korea because it doesn't feel right for being blamed for this act. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they've threatened. What if?

Well, we hit a branch. A few million people will die. Sad. Yes. I'm not saying it's not. But this leads in three directions. The first is back to A. Then there's the possibility that China aids North Korea.

If China doesn't? Then there really isn't a huge issue. South Korea may have to go it alone, but we're talking a country that has had a few decades to become self established and is far more advanced than North Korea. South Koeran deaths wouldn't be outrageous and a problematic country in the world is subjugated.

If China does? Well, that's where everything gets iffy. Worst case scenario, really. But ultimately, I think if North Korea had China's support in an outrageous attack on South Korea, it would have already happened.

Diplomacy is nice and all, but with North Korea, it has failed, time and time again. If it works, yay and hippy dippy, I'm all for that. Everyone knows where this is headed though, short of Aliens uniting the Earth in fear. I was just saying if it had to happen. . .

In other words, I'm simply saying I wouldn't protest it. And from a US standpoint, as long as China stays out, it may even help refocus the military, saving us some money.

Edited June 5, 2010 by bunny: Now with Pancakes

[Snowy_One]

Does South Korea have any form of defense against missile strikes?

[bunny: spider bitten]

Does South Korea have any form of defense against missile strikes?

The threat of their own missles, probably. The two countries are P much on different levels when it comes to resources.

[Esau of Isaac]

Let's play the what if game!

A) North Korea has Nukes. What if? Millions of people die. Possibly Americans.

B)North Korea attacks South Korea because it doesn't feel right for being blamed for this act. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they've threatened. What if?

Well, we hit a branch. A few million people will die. Sad. Yes. I'm not saying it's not. But this leads in three directions. The first is back to A. Then there's the possibility that China aids North Korea.

If China doesn't? Then there really isn't a huge issue. South Korea may have to go it alone, but we're talking a country that has had a few decades to become self established and is far more advanced than North Korea. South Koeran deaths wouldn't be outrageous and a problematic country in the world is subjugated.

If China does? Well, that's where everything gets iffy. Worst case scenario, really. But ultimately, I think if North Korea had China's support in an outrageous attack on South Korea, it would have already happened.

Diplomacy is nice and all, but with North Korea, it has failed, time and time again. If it works, yay and hippy dippy, I'm all for that. Everyone knows where this is headed though, short of Aliens uniting the Earth in fear. I was just saying if it had to happen. . .

In other words, I'm simply saying I wouldn't protest it. And from a US standpoint, as long as China stays out, it may even help refocus the military, saving us some money.

Um, who said anything about nuclear weapons? Though it would be present in the worst-case disaster scenario, you're kind of forgetting about the massive amount of artillery that is pointed right at Seoul. If war were declared, there would be millions dead by the end of the day.

Of course diplomacy has failed. This doesn't mean that war's the only option. This isn't something that you can just have the good guys jump in on and save the day.