Remaking the FE Games

[Squidorsky]

I'm having a thought here...Maybe they'll do it in a different order than before...like finish the main story of marth then show the gaiden story.

That is of course being Fe 2...So for us it might be like this order instead: Fe shadow dragon, Fe new mystery, then fe ( new) gaiden. It's a possibility considering gaiden didn't do bad as some had thought, but we'll see.

Fe6 getting a remake...seems kinda of redundant...It's like considering a remake for 9, it feels too new to me still( And japanese people i'm sure). Fire emblem 1-5 came out before the 2000's making them fairly old(Over 10 years in fact!). ( And graphically outdated by most people's standards, unlike fe6 that is still fine when compared to 7 and 8.)

Release dates for them...

FE1-1990

Fe2-1992

fe3-1994

fe4-1996

fe5-1999

fe6- 2002 ( Only eight years ago...too soon.)

-Eriad-

[Emperor Hardin]

This, though I hope if/when they remake FE6, they add in easter eggs from FE7. Maybe add an adult Erk or Sain as one of your units and give confirmation on who the hell Roy and Lilina's parents are. (And if Roy's mother is Ninian, work his being 1/4 dragon into the plot).

FE6 might be "too new" to remake, but Western audiences haven't seen it and it is a little "primitive" compared to the other GBA FEs, so a remake might be worth doing.

The whole point of not revealing Roy's mother was so it would be up to the player's imagination to decide which support happened.

Anyway I kinda figured they'd skip gaiden, though a remake of the Blacksheep of the series still would be interesting.

[Bryan]

I just hope nothing comes out for the wii (or a new wii, in the future.) Why? I can't take it with me, and I don't have to fight with my sister for the Wii. (Plus, it's easier to emulate.

[Rewjeo]

You think Wii's harder to emulate? Just wait for the 3DS!

[Lux Aeterna]

I'm kinda sick of characters that "join" you but don't help you until late game when they are less useful. Many games have this.

fe10:

Kurth (albeit only one chapter).

That is, unless you BEXP abuse like crazy. But I think that's only possible in Easy, and even then the result isn't worth losing all of that experience.

Oh, and keeping on topic, I don't mind if they remake the games, as long as they don't censor the game's original content. I mean, providing they do remake FE4 or FE5, the story would be so horribly marred because of the child hunts, incest, etc. Assuming they had to make it viewable for North America, or what they deem viewable, there would be none of that. There's not much of a story without any.

I prefer in with the new, but yeah, remakes aren't bad unless they make it bad. Sometimes remakes are better (e.g. SS/HG).

Edited June 7, 2010 by Lux Aeterna

[Thief]

For the so-called "black sheep", Gaiden sure sold well enough to stand on her own.

And, for some reason, I don't remember child hunts being that big an element in Seisen's plot anyway.

[Rakath]

I'm having a thought here...Maybe they'll do it in a different order than before...like finish the main story of marth then show the gaiden story.

That is of course being Fe 2...So for us it might be like this order instead: Fe shadow dragon, Fe new mystery, then fe ( new) gaiden. It's a possibility considering gaiden didn't do bad as some had thought, but we'll see.

Fe6 getting a remake...seems kinda of redundant...It's like considering a remake for 9, it feels too new to me still( And japanese people i'm sure). Fire emblem 1-5 came out before the 2000's making them fairly old(Over 10 years in fact!). ( And graphically outdated by most people's standards, unlike fe6 that is still fine when compared to 7 and 8.)

Release dates for them...

FE1-1990

Fe2-1992

fe3-1994

fe4-1996

fe5-1999

fe6- 2002 ( Only eight years ago...too soon.)

-Eriad-

In eight years Nintendo has switched through six different models of handheld system.

Also, if we wait the two years will it suddenly be 'not too soon?' HG/SS are about ten years after G/S came out.

And the defining aspect of if a remake is worth the time or not is how it has weathered history. HG/SS completely redesigned the original games leaving only the plot alone and added a ton of new content. I only suggest that Six can get a similar redesign because there are ways they can enhance and add to the title in ways Nintendo is known for.

Yes, I do realize Nintendo doesn't make the games, IS does, however it isn't like IS is foreign to connectivity between its games if it serves some purpose. If they can make connectivity between the GBA-DS work without it seeming to spit in the eye of everyone that's upgraded to the DSi, I think a remake of six could do pretty well.

[Thief]

I would still prefer a brand new FE title for the DS. No way I would liken it to Pokemon.

[Sophius]

They'll probably make Alvis and Deidre cousins instead of siblings. Also, they could signifigantly lessen the severity of the children's fate in child hunting to make that work. If they increased the difficulty of FE4 and added a little more meat onto the story of FE5, I'd pay 50$ for each. But unfortunately, knowing IS, they will end up nerfing FE4's story and FE5's difficulty with no positive renditions other than horrid online play and a customizable unit who doesn't fit at all no mater what they do.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Sophius

[Renall]

Why would you want balance, though? It will no longer be fe4, then. I mean, you have 20 mt silver claymores and silver lances and 22 mt silver axes. If they were to "balance" the holy weapons, what would you want? Things like Ike's Ragnell that is weaker than the other weapons? Like, 20 mt holy weapons? Or maybe 25 mt so they are only a little stronger? And those stat boosts were awesome. It would be a completely different game if you tossed out the skills "critical" and "pursuit" and made it work like other games and then nerfed the holy weapons. It would be like "FE4 Lite" or something.

It's, I think, impossible to remake FE4 in a fashion which is substantially similar to the SNES version. I say this both from a technical standpoint and a game design standpoint.

Technically speaking, I don't know if the DS can handle maps as large as FE4's with the graphical technology employed in Shadow Dragon, and I can't see them backstepping with the graphics. FEDS is already kind of touchy.

For balance, there's just tons of things that can't happen or won't work the same way if FE4 is remade:

• There is no way in hell the maps are as big as they are, which completely alters the dynamic as now chapters must be broken down somehow. There is potential here, however; imagine ch7 broken into Desert Chapter (Patty and Shanan join, Shanan gets Balmung at end) -> Darna Invasion (City Map, Aless and Leen join) -> Field Battle w/ Ishtor (Tinny joins) -> Gaiden w/ Leaf/Fin/Nanna (Castle Map, akin to the FE5 version) -> Attack on Alster (Leaf/Fin/Nanna join). They can keep the game flow and even maybe greatly improve the story if they know what they're doing. If.
  
• Unbreakable weapons and the awkward shop system. Removing any one element - the personal gold pool, personal inventory, pawn shop, lover/thief gold donation, repairing weapons - breaks the entire thing, so either it all has to stay or it all has to go. Given IS, I have to think it would all have to go. It would totally change the dynamic and make inheritance touchy. Holy Weapons would likely wind up like Ragnell.
  
• Broken Holy Weapons. Although IS saw fit to give us Ragnell for quite a while, I can't see that happening too much in a remake of FE4, and it won't be the same. Shanan will have to kiss Balmung's +20 SPD goodbye, Ishtar will get nerfed, and the whole Julius/Julia thing will have to change somehow. I could see +5 stat boosts, but not +20. That in turn changes the dynamic for engaging certain bosses, and for making those bosses a threat (Alvis e.g.).
  
• The love mechanic is awkward, hard to arrange, and impossible to properly monitor. All of that would have to change and be better-documented in a remake. Tying it to supports would be interesting, but there would need to be enough time to arrange certain unusual pairings (Fin/Brigid) or else they'd have to be abandoned.
  
• If the maps change, full deployment is likely to change as well. This could permit them to add more characters (some women who don't produce second gen children might be nice).
  
• The overimportance of mounts could stand to change. If the maps are broken down, they likely would be.
  
• Promotion is unlikely to be handled the same way. Leveling in general would probably be altered to be more like the current 20/20 model.
  
• Skills will have to be rebalanced. Pursuit is a game mechanic, not a skill, and it's a near-certainty it will become such in a remake. But that devalues certain characters (Alec and Fin come to mind), screws up others (lol Lex with the ability to double naturally), especially as fathers.
  
• Holy blood and Gen 2 growths in general are too much and need balancing.

A remade FE4 would really look more like FE5 or FEDS than the FE4 it was adapted from. It would have to, really.

Though if they do that I think they oughta go whole hog and change a few things up:

• Allow Sigurd to choose his wife. You can say it wrecks the story but it really doesn't even matter that much if Celice is the heir to the throne or not, and Sigurd barely even cares Deirdre is missing after she gets kidnapped. Just have Julia take the throne, or whoever Dierdre's son is. Celice can still be the rebel leader and such.
  
• More characters. Hey, if it becomes more akin to a traditional FE, why not? Maybe even restrict the number of child pairings that can appear, to give the player an interesting choice: Not just who will father the kids, but which kids will appear at all.
  
• Minor cosmetic changes to the kids depending on father, even if just a palette swap. Why is Lester's hair blue if Fin or Lex isn't his father? Tint it green if Midir's his dad, black if Jamka is, etc. If Fury pairs with Claude, maybe Sety should be blonde. Just sayin'.
  
• Make the substitutes more useful, as well as Gen 2 fixed characters like Johan/Johalva (maybe let you get both?) and Hannibal (he sure is weak for a legendary badass; he may not have holy blood but he should be cool). Oifaye and Fin 2.0 could maybe use a little help late-game. Shanan and Aless are fine, though they may need a little juicing up if their holy weapons take a hit.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Renall

[Squidorsky]

Also, if we wait the two years will it suddenly be 'not too soon?' HG/SS are about ten years after G/S came out.

Well no not really...What i was trying to say was that it is not really in need of a remake. You have thousands of people still hacking the gba games and playing those.

But alas i'm not arguing with you at all. i'm all for a remake believe me, just they'd have to do the kind of stuff to it that would make it worth the money and time to make it, and for us to want to buy it as you talked about. in the case of six graphically it really isn't all that bad yet. look at the nes and snes games and compare them to, say, the gba gamecube ones.

But this is not to say that six won't ever get a remake. I just don't think it needs one just yet. first they'll do the snes ones and such then i'm sure they'll do six. But i'm not IS nor nintendo so what's my word mean, it's merely opinions and speculation. but enough about six back to four...

Technically speaking, I don't know if the DS can handle maps as large as FE4's with the graphical technology employed in Shadow Dragon, and I can't see them backstepping with the graphics. FEDS is already kind of touchy.

That's why it has to be on the wii!!!!

What's all this talk about balance and changing the game. I thought remake meant make it again but better, not nerf the whole thing! Sigh...IS i'll hate you all forever if you don' make FE4 as perfect as it was originally.

Minor cosmetic changes to the kids depending on father, even if just a palette swap. Why is Lester's hair blue if Fin or Lex isn't his father? Tint it green if Midir's his dad, black if Jamka is, etc. If Fury pairs with Claude, maybe Sety should be blonde. Just sayin'.

Amen to that my friend!!

(on a completely of topic note....Schools out!!!! Whoo hoooooo!!!!....ahem sorry about that)

-eriad-

[Renall]

FEDS isn't a strict "remake" of FE1 or FE3 Book 1, by any recognizable means. Reclassing and forging alone completely demolishes that. There's also the gaidens, new characters, and generics. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they also rebalanced the growths (for instance, Jeigan actually has some). All of that fundamentally alters the remake. Is it true (to some extent) to the spirit of FE1? Sure. Is it a straight remake? Not even slightly.

FE4 would require even MORE substantial changes, but it actually isn't a bad remake candidate otherwise. After all, like FEDS and (one assumes) the FE3.2 remake, FE4 didn't have Rescuing or Shoving either.

[Thief]

I like the part where we assume that the destination for remakes are limited to handhelds.

Ha, a whole arsenal of unbreakable holy weapons? Even New Monshou's Casual Mode pales in comparison to that, when it comes to appealing to the casual players, lmao.

[Rakath]

Well no not really...What i was trying to say was that it is not really in need of a remake. You have thousands of people still hacking the gba games and playing those.

But alas i'm not arguing with you at all. i'm all for a remake believe me, just they'd have to do the kind of stuff to it that would make it worth the money and time to make it, and for us to want to buy it as you talked about. in the case of six graphically it really isn't all that bad yet. look at the nes and snes games and compare them to, say, the gba gamecube ones.

But this is not to say that six won't ever get a remake. I just don't think it needs one just yet. first they'll do the snes ones and such then i'm sure they'll do six. But i'm not IS nor nintendo so what's my word mean, it's merely opinions and speculation. but enough about six back to four...

-eriad-

The aspect that would be of most interest for an FE6 remake is to use some connectivity to FE7. The more time passes the more that slips out of reach due to the DSi and its rather large little sibling. If they wait until they remake FE4 and FE5 (both would need a lot more work to remake from the very structure of the game. FE6 would need less structure and more accessories) it'll be a while. If it takes a while an FE6 remake is still doable, but they would have to restructure what could be the most interesting change to the plot (without rewriting the plot entirely) into something a lot more complicated.

Which has some good and bad to it. If they remake FE7 and bolster the numbers and bolster some more supports and endings to it, in the mind of an FE6 remake with said bolstered endings and pairings effecting the cast and course of FE6. Well, kudos to that.

However it'd be easier if they did a remake of FE6 before the DS-lite era is done forever.

[Squidorsky]

well i posted a nice little thought but my mom pulled the internet cord out as i was submitting it so simply put...

I never said i wanted a strict remake, just one that added onto, not detracted from the original game, as i said in a earlier post.

And rakath, i agree! Fe4 could take alot of processing power and time to remake, given they remake it with lots of new features and still have th ehuge maps and a biger story more characters, blah blah blah. Aas such fe6/7 would probably be better to remake first given that they would not be as hard to remake...maybe it's for that reason that they chose to make 3 first rather than 2?

anyhow it would be cool if 6 and 7 was a little bit like 4 in that you could pick the parents and such of the kids in 6. like if you had ninian as the mother of roy, he would get a small boost like dragons get though significantly smaller. Or if you chose not to pair up jaffar and nino then ray and lugh would not be there. they have put two games in one before, so why not do it again, but this time with connectivity between the two. if sain dies in "gen 1"(FE7) then he will not show up at all in "gen 2" (FE6). Maybe some more stuff could happen but for the sake of time i'll not rant about it.

Over all, maybe i was being stubborn. a six/ seven mash up remake would be cool...perhaps it has been long enough? maybe this game game could be the last hurrah for the ds lite era?

-eriad-

Edited June 10, 2010 by Eriad

[Rakath]

well i posted a nice little thought but my mom pulled the internet cord out as i was submitting it so simply put...

I never said i wanted a strict remake, just one that added onto, not detracted from the original game, as i said in a earlier post.

And rakath, i agree! Fe4 could take alot of processing power and time to remake, given they remake it with lots of new features and still have th ehuge maps and a biger story more characters, blah blah blah. Aas such fe6/7 would probably be better to remake first given that they would not be as hard to remake...maybe it's for that reason that they chose to make 3 first rather than 2?

I saw it more as a natural storyline progression thing. Going FE1 to FE3 is completing a story. Seeing what fans want to come after that will decide if they go back and redo FE2 (which they still could), FE4 (better as a Wii title), or FE6 (well I want it).

anyhow it would be cool if 6 and 7 was a little bit like 4 in that you could pick the parents and such of the kids in 6. like if you had ninian as the mother of roy, he would get a small boost like dragons get though significantly smaller. Or if you chose not to pair up jaffar and nino then ray and lugh would not be there. they have put two games in one before, so why not do it again, but this time with connectivity between the two. if sain dies in "gen 1"(FE7) then he will not show up at all in "gen 2" (FE6). Maybe some more stuff could happen but for the sake of time i'll not rant about it.

Over all, maybe i was being stubborn. a six/ seven mash up remake would be cool...perhaps it has been long enough? maybe this game game could be the last hurrah for the ds lite era?

-eriad-

The way I see it they have a few options for how to integrate the FE7 relationships into FE6. For starters minor changes in dialog to include references to parents. Even if in some cases it's minor, like for the twins a reference to the man that brought them to the orphanage (As Nino either ends up with Erk or Jaffar), referencing Rabecca's husband (Sain, Wil, or Lowen). The other parent's strongest stats might be used as a reference point to give minor growth buffs (5-10% only for most, except...) Roy... Roy is what they can do the most with.

Roy is usually titled as one of the weakest and most useless lords in FE history. Late promotion and poor caps. However, if they decided to have Roy's stats, growths, and promotion gain a little off of one of his options for parent (Lilina can be given a similar treatment, in different ways). At least they can give some growth buffs based on parent stats like above. OR, they can go a little further and change the exact standing of classes based on parent:

- Ninian: Much nicer growths, slightly improved caps post promote.

- Lyndis: Increased growths based on his mommy, Bow use as a second weapon, Crit Boost along the lines of Blade Lord.

- Fiora: Increased growths based on his mommy, give's him Eliwood's Knight Lord Promotion and Lances (because they probably wouldn't wanna break the all girl's club on Pegasus riders).

That's just an example, most of the FE6 cast with a parent in FE7 has only one parent known, and a few parent options. They can play on ways that the parent changes effect the cast, I doubt anyone other then Roy would get really big changes, but they could still be fun to play around with.

[-Cynthia-]

It wouldn't actually affect too many FE6 chracters IIRc, but it would still be a nice idea.

Wolt- Sain/Lowen/Wil(Raven?) parents. Frankly Wolt could use a boost.

Roy- Already discussed. Also the fact that Roy is 1/2 or 1/4 dragon (I always thought Ninian was full, but some people seem to think otherwise) would definitely be worth mentioning given the dragon centric storyline.

Lilina- Could probably become better with some stat boosts, her possible mothers all have good Spd growths so maybe she would pick that up and be less terrible.

Lugh/Ray- Nino is the mother, possible fathers Jaffar or Erk (Canas?)

Sue- Unclear parentage (all we know Dayan is her grandpa). Could be offspring of Rath+Lyn, Rath+random Kutolah woman, or Rath's sibling+random Kutolah person.

Clarine/Klein- Set parents (Pent/Louise cannot be broken)

Fir- Also set parents, Batre/Karla is canon, and no other possible ladies for Bartre.

Igrene- Hawkeye's apparently her father, though who he knocked up is up in the air (Louise and Ninian both seem unlikely)

Hugh- Canas is the father, not sure who the mother is. Nino already has Ray/Lugh (and Hugh seems too old for Nino to be his mother) so that leaves...Vaida?

Otehr characters could possibly be related, but that would just be speculation (for example Harken/Isadora being Allen's parents isn't mentioned, but it makes sense).

Edited June 10, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Rakath]

Technically Hugh can't be put into this system as his parentage is already known. Canas has a wife (with a baby boy) back home, while he's working and sending back money. So Hugh's already around when FE7 is happening, if I recall right anyway.

But yes, there are some that are assumed due to Expy-ness, and they can add characters into an FE6 remake based on pairings out of FE7, if they want. Or if they wait too long and redo the whole thing, just make it all into a new set of games, with more FE7r stuff that leads into more FE6r stuff.

It is just the thought of a fan here, after all.

[Junkhead]

If FE6 were to be remade, it'd be awesome if it had stat transfers from FE7 to FE6, yeah...but I don't see that possible unless they also decide to remake FE7 and put them both together, like FE3

@Cynthia: I'm not really sure if that is sarcasm or not...ick. So, it's highly impossible for Nino to be Hugh's possible mother when she is his auntie, Hugh was 2 years old in FE7.

Same for Igrene, she was even older than Hugh in FE7, possibly in her 10s.

The best mother for Lolina seems to be Farina, it'd give Lolina a magnificent 50% DEF growth!

Ninian gives Roy amazing Avo growth.

Wolt's cannon dad is most likely to be Wil, just look at their physical appearance, similiar stats/growths and then Rebecca and Wil's endig together.

And then the fact characters can support other characters of different genders doesn't mean they should end up paired...

Edited June 10, 2010 by Soul

[-Cynthia-]

Hugh doesn't count then. I kind of figured Canas had a kid with a non-featured character.

Igrene probably is too old as well, atlhough in theory Louise or Ninian could have had the child before FE7 starts.

Lowen as Wolt's canon dad makes a fair amount of sense as well. Wolt grows up in Pherae, has a loyal knight complex, and has green hair. Lowen and Rebecca also have a romantic ending.

I was too lazy to look whether opposite gender pairings were actually romantic or not (it's not like I've ever actually done a Canas/Vaida support).

[riariadne]

Lowen as Wolt's canon dad makes a fair amount of sense as well. Wolt grows up in Pherae, has a loyal knight complex, and has green hair. Lowen and Rebecca also have a romantic ending.

I would like to point out the similariy in Lowen and Lance's hair color.

Additionally, Wolt's hair is more like a combination of green and brown than Lowen's hair color.

Wil/Rebecca has always seemed to make sense in to me that respect.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Lightning

[Rakath]

Looking at the endings:

- Sue is definitely Rath's daughter (ending with Lyn)

In the 'what is romantic, what isn't' category (note: only paired endings):

- All of Rebecca's endings are romantic (Sain, Wil, Lowen)

- Serra and Erk is romantic, the other two are debatable (Matthew, Oswin)

- All of Priscilla's endings are romantic, but only Erk stays with her. (Erk, Heath, Guy)

- Nino's endings are romantic (Erk, Jaffar)

- Farina's endings are romantic (Dart, Kent, Hector)

- Fiora's endings are romantic (Kent, Sain, Eliwood)

- Harken and Isadora is romantic, everything else they get is depressing.

- Raven and Lucius ride off into the sunset together.

- Vaida is depressing, her best bet is Heath and that's not very romantic.

- Lyn's endings are romantic (Kent, Rath, Hector, Eliwood. Some say Florina's is also romantic)

- Hector's endings are romantic (Lyn, Florina, Farina)

- Eliwood's endings are romantic (Lyn, Farina, Ninian)

- Pent and Louise, Bartre and Karla, Canas and his unnamed wife who dies with him in a snowy mountain region are obvious.

Now why did I go list all of this? Aside from the endings that already were in FE6 in some way (one parent or both) Serra, Priscilla, Vaida (somewhat), Farina, and Fiora have endings that could be explored to gain us new FE6 characters. Just food for thought.

[Momo]

- Serra and Erk is romantic, the other two are debatable (Matthew, Oswin)

+ =

[Junkhead]

Looking at the endings:

- Sue is definitely Rath's daughter (ending with Lyn)

In the 'what is romantic, what isn't' category (note: only paired endings):

- All of Rebecca's endings are romantic (Sain, Wil, Lowen)

- Serra and Erk is romantic, the other two are debatable (Matthew, Oswin)

- All of Priscilla's endings are romantic, but only Erk stays with her. (Erk, Heath, Guy)

- Nino's endings are romantic (Erk, Jaffar)

- Farina's endings are romantic (Dart, Kent, Hector)

Bolded: I bolded the ones that aren't really romantic. Dart x Farina was more of a rivalry. Sain x Rebecca is too obvious, Fiora showed a little more affection. And serra is more likely to have a tomance with Oswin over Matthew and Erk.

[Rakath]

Funny, Serra and Erk is the only one where love is even mentioned of the three. Florina and Dart outright states she was flirting with him. ...okay, Sain is the least strong of the three there, but it is romantic.

"After the battle, Erk returned to his studies. His newfound feelings for Serra were an unwelcome distraction. In Ostia, Serra declared she would "live for love" with Erk, and Marquess Ostia gladly saw her off."

"Farina's love for Dart compelled her to stay in Lycia. She visited Badon often and flirted with Dart at every chance. He never knew how serious she was when she told him that a female pirate would be quite profitable!"