Affinity Tier List

[Soren37]

Which affinity is the best? Well read on!

-Affinities are ranked by the usefulness of their bonuses

-DON'T say that an affinity is crap because only 3 characters have it. An affinity can be good regardless of who's on it or how often it appears.

High Tier

Earth

Water

Mid Tier

Dark

Thunder

Low Tier

Fire

Light

Bottom Tier

Heaven

Wind

Open for debate and raeg.

EDIT: I Eat Tables made several good points. Hence the changes.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Soren37

[Rewjeo]

Are we discussing simply how good their bonuses they are, or how much they help in the actual game with the characters that have that affinity?

[Soren37]

A bit of both. The bonuses they give (Avo > Hit) and a bit of how much they help. Just don't argue that the affinity is crap because the character that has it is crap. All characters have the option to buddy with any character, no matter how crappy.

[riariadne]

God Tier

Earth

High Tier

Fire

Water

Dark

Low Tier

Thunder

Light

Wind

Bottom Tier

Heaven

Quickfixed.

Edited June 30, 2010 by Lightning

[Psych]

You have Heaven twice and no Water.

[Deliriyum]

water is actually good. I would say heaven for worst. To me its Earth>Dark>Water>everything else.

[RNG Princess]

I really like Earth support because it can make a whole difference :3

I tier them like this:

God Tier

Earth

High Tier

Dark

Wind

Mid Tier

Thunder

Water

Low Tier

Fire

Bottom Tier

Heaven

Edited June 30, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[riariadne]

You have Heaven twice and no Water.

No I don't what are you talking about.

[_____]

I've seen people argue Water as better than Earth, actually. It is most certainly not Bottom.

Oh, and regarding Water on yours, Lightning, how does extra hit beat Defense, exactly?

Edited June 30, 2010 by Ninji

[Tables]

High tier:

Earth

Water

Middle Tier:

Dark

Thunder

Low tier:

Fire

Light

Bottom tier:

Heaven

Wind

(Note: There's a bigger gap between Bottom and Low than between Low and Mid, and Mid and High)

Explanations:

Earth gives crazy avoid bonuses which combine well with just about anything. Double Earth gives an insane +45 avoid, which at the worst doubles your durability (assuming enemy hits are below 100%) and at best makes you invincible. Of course, other affinities are also good with it: Earth*Water gives +2 atk, +2 def, +23 avoid, a sizeable boost all around, and really combining with anything gives you excellent boosts.

Water has a very nice edge of providing good boosts right from the start: a C rank water support is +1 atk, +1 def. The downside of this is that it's hard to find a good complimentary boost: Earth is of course the best, but asides from that Water doesn't get a lot of benefit out of the other affinity. Other atk or def boosting supports go well with it, giving a boost of +3/+2 to atk/def in some order and +7 to hit or avoid, and it's general all around useful boosts make it a nice affinity.

Dark and Thunder both boost avoid, but in very small quantities. On their own, they give a boost of +8 avo and even combined with another +avo support, only give +15 - nice and enough to improve someones durability slightly, but not a significant enough boost to raise them past the concrete boost of Water. As for their other boosts, Dark gives +atk and Thunder gives +def, which makes them largely situational between which is better. +atk tends to be a little more useful though, so Dark has the slight edge.

Fire and Light are in the same boat as Dark and Thunder, but give the much less useful boost of +hit over +avo. Hit boosts are generally not that useful, since hit rates against all but the fastest opponents will probably be 80%+ later in the game. Early on, especially in part 1 when hit rates aren't so stellar, hit boosts come in useful, but even then a boost up up to +15% isn't worth writing home about. Once again, like Dark and Thunder, Fire also gives +atk and Light gives +def, and it's situational as to which is better but generally that +atk is more useful.

Heaven is a generally poor affinity, since hit isn't needed 95% of the time. However, it does have it's occasional uses: On it's own it's +27 hit at C rank - often enough to make Gamble a worthwhile skill, and double heaven even is +54, which is very nice for using gamble, or even just low accuracy weapons like greatlances a little more reliably. Of course, these are very situational and so it rarely helps, but it's still more than can be said about...

Wind is just terrible. At best, +8 hit and +8 avoid will make very little difference, giving someone a little more chance to hit won't matter much and that paltry avoid boost isn't going to save you very often. The lack of solid boosts also hurts - no ability to turn 3HKOs into 2HKOs or even boost that slightly worrysome 73% hit rate up to 100%, it just gives slight chance improvements. It's arguably better than Heaven since it's uses are general - small, but there, giving you the occasional hit that would have missed and making the opponent miss just that little more often, while Heaven only really sees use when it's explicitly needed, however, I am of the mind that Heaven's boost is more useful.

(Edit: Removed top tier, the gap between Earth and Water is too small for it)

Edited June 30, 2010 by I Eat Tables

[dondon151]

Heaven is definitely useful for 4-E. I never really noticed a significant effect on performance with supports unless it was earth, heaven, or water.

[Junkhead]

Which affinity is the best? Well read on!

-Affinities are ranked by the usefulness of their bonuses

-DON'T say that an affinity is crap because only 3 characters have it. An affinity can be good regardless of who's on it or how often it appears.

God Tier

Earh

High Tier

Wind

Heaven

Mid Tier

Dark

Thunder

Light

Low Tier

Fire

Bottom Tier

Water

Open for debate and raeg.

Stop trolling.

[Nightmare]

Heaven is definitely useful for 4-E. I never really noticed a significant effect on performance with supports unless it was earth, heaven, or water.

Who can it be useful on? I've only noticed it being good when I had Pelleas support with Tibarn, but even then, with A support and capped Skl, he still had a hard time hitting the bosses in 4-E. Then again, I haven't had any other notable Heaven support...

[Fenrir]

Which affinity is the best? Well read on!

-Affinities are ranked by the usefulness of their bonuses

-DON'T say that an affinity is crap because only 3 characters have it. An affinity can be good regardless of who's on it or how often it appears.

God Tier

Earh

High Tier

Wind

Heaven

Mid Tier

Dark

Thunder

Light

Low Tier

Fire

Bottom Tier

Water

Open for debate and raeg.

is this a joke? wind and heaven at high?

[Anouleth]

Wind is obviously the worst affinity. It simply doesn't give a large enough boost. If it was more like +4avo/+4hit per level, it would be decent.

However, aside from that, all the affinities have their uses. Hit is often low in the DB, Silver Army and 4-E, attack is always useful, defense is useful in Part 3 DB chapters and has it's uses for other chapters, and avoid is always nice to have, even if it is a bit unreliable unless you pull out all the stops for EarthxEarth A.

If somebody decent had Heaven, I'd be a lot more forgiving towards it. +27 hit would be great for Jill or Nolan would be sweet. Even more hit for Micaiah for better Purging, or Sanaki so she can get 100 hit on enemies that counter-attack her.

[Fenrir]

Wind is obviously the worst affinity. It simply doesn't give a large enough boost. If it was more like +4avo/+4hit per level, it would be decent.

However, aside from that, all the affinities have their uses. Hit is often low in the DB, Silver Army and 4-E, attack is always useful, defense is useful in Part 3 DB chapters and has it's uses for other chapters, and avoid is always nice to have, even if it is a bit unreliable unless you pull out all the stops for EarthxEarth A.

If somebody decent had Heaven, I'd be a lot more forgiving towards it. +27 hit would be great for Jill or Nolan would be sweet. Even more hit for Micaiah for better Purging, or Sanaki so she can get 100 hit on enemies that counter-attack her.

it's "useful" but i'd take my +3 attack from water +fire/dark, 6 more attack overall or 4 with just water/fire/dark, and this tier has water at bottom, how ignorant can you be? attack and defense are always reliable, 3 attacks in a round gives you 6 more total hp, meaning you might survive the next turn(or even this turn) becuase 3 attacks all hitting 2 turns in a row is 12 hp, thats worth something, heaven? i'll spend extra money on my forge, i don't want a frikin heaven affinity, wind is just as bad, except when paired with another +7.5 it does something.

here's how i rank them,

God tier

Earth

High

Fire

Water

Dark

Mid

thunder

Low

Light

Friggin sucks

Heaven

Wind

[grandjackal]

If somebody decent had Heaven, I'd be a lot more forgiving towards it. +27 hit would be great for Jill or Nolan would be sweet. Even more hit for Micaiah for better Purging, or Sanaki so she can get 100 hit on enemies that counter-attack her.

Another added benefit to added acc. Less having to spend for acc on a forge, moar flexibility to forge crit.

[Narga_Rocks]

Wind is obviously the worst affinity. It simply doesn't give a large enough boost. If it was more like +4avo/+4hit per level, it would be decent.

However, aside from that, all the affinities have their uses. Hit is often low in the DB, Silver Army and 4-E, attack is always useful, defense is useful in Part 3 DB chapters and has it's uses for other chapters, and avoid is always nice to have, even if it is a bit unreliable unless you pull out all the stops for EarthxEarth A.

If somebody decent had Heaven, I'd be a lot more forgiving towards it. +27 hit would be great for Jill or Nolan would be sweet. Even more hit for Micaiah for better Purging, or Sanaki so she can get 100 hit on enemies that counter-attack her.

sanaki already has 100 hit on everything. A forge makes her bio proof, but she hovers around 100 hit even with her PRF.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10600&view=findpost&p=553859

Once she gets access to Ike's stars, Cymbeline is enough to be bio proof. And considering you aren't likely to pull off even a C for her in 4-3, that means the hit from a support is irrelevant.

Edited June 30, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Anouleth]

Sanaki still likes +hit for siege tomes. And sometimes, she needs to use Cymbeline for the extra damage, so the forge can only go so far.

Although I guess she does join too late to really get a support going.

[Narga_Rocks]

Sanaki still likes +hit for siege tomes. And sometimes, she needs to use Cymbeline for the extra damage, so the forge can only go so far.

Although I guess she does join too late to really get a support going.

Cymbeline gives 100% hit in 4-E. That's what I said. There is no use for a heaven support once she has Ike's stars, and no time to build Heaven before she gets them. siege tomes, I think, still give 100% hit on dragons, and I'm not sure how much else you would be using them on, anyway. It's not like they are particularly powerful, though I suppose units that cause ~20 damage a hit to Generals and double would get them weak enough for a seige tome. It's still only +12 hit, though (Light + Heaven at C). Plus your heaven options are rather limited in 4-P and 4-3 for her to build with.

[Tables]

Now, I shall attempt to balance all of the affinities (with likely hilarious results. I'd make a new topic, but I think this pretty much fits here anyway (and if not, I can easily delete this and move into said new topic)

Earth:

Was +7.5 avo

Now +5 avo

A slightly smaller boost means for every level of Earth in the support, there's 2.5 less avoid - that means A Earth x Earth is now only 30 avoid - big, but no longer quite so gamebreaking, and Earth x other is only 15 avoid, neither of which is enough to turn good hit rates into complete safety, but still enough that your high dodge units have a lot less to fear.

Water:

Was +0.5 atk, +0.5 def

Now +0.45 atk, +0.45 def

Water with non atk or def boosts now does nothing at C rank, which is slightly worrying, but with anything boosting those it still gives great boosts. In that way, Water is still a good affinity, but it's more limited in what it can go with, since +1 atk, +1 def is it's default boost at A rank now.

Dark:

Was +0.5 atk, +2.5 avo

Now +0.5 atk, +2 avo

Thunder:

Was +0.5 def, +2.5 avo

now +0.5 def, +2 avo

A tiny, almost imperceptible drop to each of these. That equates to a maximum of 3 avoid lost in a double support, which is rarely going to be significant, but perhaps enough for just one or two more enemy attacks to land over the game.

Fire:

Was +0.5 atk, +2.5 hit

Now +0.5 atk, +4 hit

Light:

Was +0.5 def, +2.5 hit

Now +0.5 def, +4 hit

A bit of a boost to each of those, since while hit boosts are more situational than avoid boosts, in those quantities some good stuff can be done with them - a boost of up to +24 hit would make the latter DB chapters a whole lot easier, after all.

Heaven:

Was +9 hit

Now +10 hit, +2 avo

There's only so much a hit boost can do, so a little avoid boost in there too should bring it up a little. Is 10 hit comparable with 0.5 atk? I don't know, but if it is, then my job is done.

Wind:

Was +2.5 hit, 2.5 avo

Now +5 hit, +3.5 avo

A direct midpoint between Heaven and Earth, the boost is a moderate increase to both hit and avoid - enough to dodge a perceptible number more enemies, and improve hit significantly with those greatlances and pole axes.

Thoughts? Does this make the affinities balanced? Does it just help a little? Have I made something too good?

[dondon151]

Who can it be useful on? I've only noticed it being good when I had Pelleas support with Tibarn, but even then, with A support and capped Skl, he still had a hard time hitting the bosses in 4-E. Then again, I haven't had any other notable Heaven support...

Anyone using a Brave Axe wants a heaven support. Same goes for a Brave Lance. If you're swinging around a Hammer in 4-E-1, you'll want extra hit. Ike also likes a heaven support to buffer his hit, as does anyone using Alondite.

[Fenrir]

Sanaki still likes +hit for siege tomes. And sometimes, she needs to use Cymbeline for the extra damage, so the forge can only go so far.

Although I guess she does join too late to really get a support going.

bold, what are you saying, use a forge for sanaki who has 100hit and more damage with cymbaline, Why are we buying a forge?

[Narga_Rocks]

bold, what are you saying, use a forge for sanaki who has 100hit and more damage with cymbaline, Why are we buying a forge?

Actually it works for 4-P and 4-3. Granted, 90 hit is pretty high and if she goes to best that's 100% anyway.

The reasons to make a fire forge for her are:

you can drop it to 2 wt and thus she can have 23 AS to avoid doubles from faster enemies

completely bio-proof if you make it +25 (since 95 hit weapons can drop to 80 thanks to bio (worst), her skill/lck, and enemy avo. Fire has 90, so 90 + 25 = 115, which adds 20 to her final hit).

10 mt fire forges aren't bad, though they are 3 mt lower than Cymbeline. Often, though, her 43 base mt with a forge is quite sufficient to turn 2RKOs into 1RKOs for other units. Besides, you'd use Cymbeline, anyway, for when it doesn't put her at risk and she's not on worst bio. As for "buying", well, if you used mages/sages for utility only earlier in the game, you probably forged for them back then and they likely wouldn't have broken it due to their general inability to double stuff.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[riariadne]

Now, I shall attempt to balance all of the affinities (with likely hilarious results. I'd make a new topic, but I think this pretty much fits here anyway (and if not, I can easily delete this and move into said new topic)

Earth:

Was +7.5 avo

Now +5 avo

A slightly smaller boost means for every level of Earth in the support, there's 2.5 less avoid - that means A Earth x Earth is now only 30 avoid - big, but no longer quite so gamebreaking, and Earth x other is only 15 avoid, neither of which is enough to turn good hit rates into complete safety, but still enough that your high dodge units have a lot less to fear.

Water:

Was +0.5 atk, +0.5 def

Now +0.45 atk, +0.45 def

Water with non atk or def boosts now does nothing at C rank, which is slightly worrying, but with anything boosting those it still gives great boosts. In that way, Water is still a good affinity, but it's more limited in what it can go with, since +1 atk, +1 def is it's default boost at A rank now.

Dark:

Was +0.5 atk, +2.5 avo

Now +0.5 atk, +2 avo

Thunder:

Was +0.5 def, +2.5 avo

now +0.5 def, +2 avo

A tiny, almost imperceptible drop to each of these. That equates to a maximum of 3 avoid lost in a double support, which is rarely going to be significant, but perhaps enough for just one or two more enemy attacks to land over the game.

Fire:

Was +0.5 atk, +2.5 hit

Now +0.5 atk, +4 hit

Light:

Was +0.5 def, +2.5 hit

Now +0.5 def, +4 hit

A bit of a boost to each of those, since while hit boosts are more situational than avoid boosts, in those quantities some good stuff can be done with them - a boost of up to +24 hit would make the latter DB chapters a whole lot easier, after all.

Heaven:

Was +9 hit

Now +10 hit, +2 avo

There's only so much a hit boost can do, so a little avoid boost in there too should bring it up a little. Is 10 hit comparable with 0.5 atk? I don't know, but if it is, then my job is done.

Wind:

Was +2.5 hit, 2.5 avo

Now +5 hit, +3.5 avo

A direct midpoint between Heaven and Earth, the boost is a moderate increase to both hit and avoid - enough to dodge a perceptible number more enemies, and improve hit significantly with those greatlances and pole axes.

Thoughts? Does this make the affinities balanced? Does it just help a little? Have I made something too good?

I actually think that'd work out great if the bonuses worked like that. Rolf would be useful for supports and stuff. Yeah.