Lord of the Rings Tier List

[Narga_Rocks]

Don't you think Aragorn and Legolas should be higher? I mean, what has Elrond done during the books? Not much. Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas went after a pick of an unknown number of Uruk-Hai and expected to win. After running across country for days. I suppose you could argue that they were delusional and would have lost, but I don't think that is true. Being able to beat a large group of enemies with just 3 people is pretty amazing.

Also, did Arwen even do anything in the books? I could understand her position if it had actually been her that took Frodo across the river, but since it wasn't I can't actually recall her doing much of anything.

And is Smeagol so low due to (as far as I can recall from the book) tripping himself into the fire while dancing around with joy? But he saved the entire middle earth, right?

[Defeatist Elitist]

Don't you think Aragorn and Legolas should be higher? I mean, what has Elrond done during the books? Not much. Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas went after a pick of an unknown number of Uruk-Hai and expected to win. After running across country for days. I suppose you could argue that they were delusional and would have lost, but I don't think that is true. Being able to beat a large group of enemies with just 3 people is pretty amazing.

Also, did Arwen even do anything in the books? I could understand her position if it had actually been her that took Frodo across the river, but since it wasn't I can't actually recall her doing much of anything.

And is Smeagol so low due to (as far as I can recall from the book) tripping himself into the fire while dancing around with joy? But he saved the entire middle earth, right?

Aragorn and Legolas are pretty high really. I mean, Elrond is up there for being an elf lord, and keeper of one of the three, and just generally being a force for good (it was his council that organized this shit), he's pretty awesome. Sure you have to lose a fair number of characters to get him, but if you do he comes at a high level with fairly good stats and decent growths. Aragorn and Legolas are pretty awesome, but they just don't have the same oomph as some of the characters. Aragorn has nice growths and bases and his Lord class, but kind of gets screwed because he doesn't get his Promotion Event until literally like the end of the game (well, of his route). Legolas can fight well, but lack of an effective 1 range kind of hurts him sometimes, and he just doesn't have the same killing power and durability of Gimli. Gimli doubles and ORKOs pretty much every enemy throughout the game, and he can take hits like nobodies business.

[Parrhesia]

Don't you think Aragorn and Legolas should be higher? I mean, what has Elrond done during the books? Not much. Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas went after a pick of an unknown number of Uruk-Hai and expected to win. After running across country for days. I suppose you could argue that they were delusional and would have lost, but I don't think that is true. Being able to beat a large group of enemies with just 3 people is pretty amazing.

Also, did Arwen even do anything in the books? I could understand her position if it had actually been her that took Frodo across the river, but since it wasn't I can't actually recall her doing much of anything.

And is Smeagol so low due to (as far as I can recall from the book) tripping himself into the fire while dancing around with joy? But he saved the entire middle earth, right?

I arbitrarily decided just then to count the Last Alliance, Gil-Galad, Isildur and Elendir. But given Elrond does this with at least those three as well as...everyone, well... I'll move Aragorn up a little, but the problem with Legolas is that he's probably in the worst position for a sniper. Best Player Phase at the beginning pre-promotion, sure, but if you promote him to Ranger the others will surpass his offense (all for lolknives) and if he becomes a sniper...well, I'll just say that Helm's Deep is a good time to have 1-2 range.

Not in the books, but when you factor in the ability to do more than just sit in Rivendell...

Smeagol's kind of forgettable. Bad availablity, admittedly in a rather vital part, with extremely bad durablity and rather mediocre offence. He can pretty much just mop up whatever Sam leaves behind.

aragon > gimli.

This list is controversial enough without Catherine of Aragon being better at fighting than an invincible dwarf.

I'm debating doing one of these for the Silmarillion. The problem of course will be the fact that there are hundreds of characters, so yeah...

Go ahead. I'm afraid I can't help you with that, though. The only guy I actually know about to any capacity is Feanor, and only thanks to Blind Guardian.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I arbitrarily decided just then to count the Last Alliance, Gil-Galad, Isildur and Elendir. But given Elrond does this with at least those three as well as...everyone, well... I'll move Aragorn up a little, but the problem with Legolas is that he's probably in the worst position for a sniper. Best Player Phase at the beginning pre-promotion, sure, but if you promote him to Ranger the others will surpass his offense (all for lolknives) and if he becomes a sniper...well, I'll just say that Helm's Deep is a good time to have 1-2 range.

You're forgetting, Legolas comes as a pre-promote (Woodland Prince). It's a unique class for him, but it is a 2nd tier class, and he promotes to 3rd tier after. It's understandable that you would be confused. He does have some Knife use before 3rd tier, but yeah, that's not too great, so you still are kind of right.

[Parrhesia]

You're forgetting, Legolas comes as a pre-promote (Woodland Prince). It's a unique class for him, but it is a 2nd tier class, and he promotes to 3rd tier after. It's understandable that you would be confused. He does have some Knife use before 3rd tier, but yeah, that's not too great, so you still are kind of right.

Thank you so goddamn much for thinking of a class name

*cough* I mean, it is good to see that we agree.

[-Cynthia-]

Arwen only appears if you take more than 4 turns in Weathertop, Glorfindel appears otherwise, it's a Karel/Harken sort of deal. Glorfindel has better stats, but Arwen at least has a fast Aragorn support.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Thank you so goddamn much for thinking of a class name

*cough* I mean, it is good to see that we agree.

In Legolas's favor, his promotion to Mirkwood Prince is pretty insane. Son of Thranduil is one of the best masteries out there. Spd% chance of being able to take a second turn is insane.

[Jaybee]

We need stats for all the characters now.

Also, Denethor down. He barely ever helps, and if you don't get Gandalf back to the White Tree 2 turns after he declares he's gonna kill himself, you end up losing Faramir, though I guess that isn't TOO bad. Furthermore, Gandalf is normally fighting near the front, and Minis Tirith is wtfhuge, so it's really tough to get Gandalf back to home base fast. At least King of the Dead has h4x avo,and EVERY GODDAMN TURN he summons 4 dead warriors around him that aren't too bad at fighting themselves. Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas may be awesome and all, but they can't kill 100 Oliphaunts without taking severe damage/dying. The dead warriors can either lure the Oliphaunts away or slowly hack them to pieces (it's not like the Oliphaunts can hit them anyway).

[Hero]

I wrote a good post for this topic that seems to have disappeared when I left this morning instead of actually submitting like the button I pressed said it would. Let's see if I can reconstruct it.

First point: Theoden should be a lot higher. A lot of people in this thread have been painting him out to be some sort of Jeigan, but I think he's a Seth: Useful from the moment you get him in chapter 11 until practically the end. He has some of the best bases of any normal (I'll get into that later) unit you can recruit and his growths are better than Eowyn in all the combat stats and good enough that Merry and Pippin won't ever catch up to him unless you feed them kills in almost every chapter, which just isn't efficient since they're never available in a chapter where more useful allies aren't. Contrary to popular conception a properly levelled Theoden can easily tank the Witch King even while rescuing Merry, his base speed is enough not to be doubled. And Theoden makes the Black Gate downright easy.

Second point: Eowyn should be a step below Denethor. She's supposed to be a combat unit, I think, but her stats are like what Lyn would be with a nonexistent speed growth. Seriously, I don't understand why people invest in this character. And I understand even less why so many people use her to rescue Merry through the whole Pelennor Fields sequence. She gets doubled by practically everything, unless you've been abusing her up like hell. Even Denethor is more useful, he's just as shitty in combat but the utility value from his leadership stars at least gives you some motivation to deploy him.

Third point: Tom Bombadil. This motherfucker should be at the top of the tier list, no joke. I'll be not too many of you have tried this, but if you use the athelas trick to permanently recruit him during the Old Forest chapter, he's available in every chapter thereafter. And he can solo about 80% of everything with his insane stats. I think they might have only given him those values for show, so this is probably an exploit, but I believe in "living document" interpretations of video games so our tier list should acknowledge this regardless.

Hopefully you'll take my points into consideration and edit the tier list with them in mind.

[Integrity]

Arwen only appears if you take more than 4 turns in Weathertop, Glorfindel appears otherwise, it's a Karel/Harken sort of deal. Glorfindel has better stats, but Arwen at least has a fast Aragorn support.

Arwen's Aragorn support is unlikely to be utilized considering her availability. If you manage to get a B during their short time, you're forgoing a Gimli/Legolas/Aragorn support triangle later which means you'll be fucked come Aragorn's promotion chapter.

EDIT: And Tom Bombadil suffers a little by being obscure, I think. He's difficult to use properly. Conversely, Gandalf the White only suffers from availability and, while being less powerful than TB, is easier to use right. You have to be a genius or have a guide to use TB, so he's under Gandalf.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Integrity

[Original Alear]

Theoden down. In order to recruit him you have to go on a way bad route during the chapter split. It's better to abandon Rohan and let it die.

Tier Gwaihir?

[-Cynthia-]

The athelas trick is actually a glitch, which probably shouldn't count for this tier list, that's like getting the Uber Spear in FE7.

@Integrity True, but she can at least nab a C, since Legolas/Gimli will be getting an A with each other (lol 40+4 support speed)

Gandalf is the real Seth of this game. He's the only one who can hit Res and use staves for like forever (unless you recruit Elrond, but who can be bothered to do that?). He's necessary to beat the Balrog, though this is arguably a plot event. I guess he loses some points for not being around in Amon Hen, but he's still really good whenever he's around.

[Integrity]

@Integrity True, but she can at least nab a C, since Legolas/Gimli will be getting an A with each other (lol 40+4 support speed)

Yeah but what's the C getting her? Nothing, because she sucks. What's it get Ari? +1 atk and +5 hit situationally? Yeah, woo, take that Nazgul!

EDIT: My bad. FireXLight is actually 1 atk, 5 hit, 5 crit. Better, certainly, but not particularly helpful especially considering she has to be fielded.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Integrity

[Hero]

Theoden down. In order to recruit him you have to go on a way bad route during the chapter split. It's better to abandon Rohan and let it die.

Tier Gwaihir?

What's bad about going through Rohan? You get at least one good character out of it and I'd argue that because of that, and because of all the experience lying around, it's possible to complete your run in fewer turns than it would be by skipping Rohan. Because if you don't go to Rohan you're never going to win at the Black Gate except by fulfilling the "Survive until" condition.

The athelas trick is actually a glitch, which probably shouldn't count for this tier list, that's like getting the Uber Spear in FE7.

It's not a bug at all, though arguably it could be called an exploit. Personally I wouldn't call it even that, since as I said I believe code speaks for itself regardless of the programmer's intention.

The question is this: Should this tier list be based on efficiency, or based on efficiency within arbitrary self-imposed boundaries? To me the first choice is obvious, and accounting for the athelas trick is obvious.

Gandalf is the real Seth of this game. He's the only one who can hit Res and use staves for like forever (unless you recruit Elrond, but who can be bothered to do that?). He's necessary to beat the Balrog, though this is arguably a plot event. I guess he loses some points for not being around in Amon Hen, but he's still really good whenever he's around.

You mentioned Gandalf's absence at Amon Hen, but what about during the escape chapters early on? Weathertop? The flight through Lebennin? Pelennor? Absolutely everything the Ringbearer does from Emyn Muil until the end? Really, Gandalf is a godsend when he is there but he's there for less than half of the most important fights.

And then he's got nothing on Tom Bombadil...

[Original Alear]

Gandalf is the real Seth of this game. He's the only one who can hit Res and use staves for like forever (unless you recruit Elrond, but who can be bothered to do that?). He's necessary to beat the Balrog, though this is arguably a plot event. I guess he loses some points for not being around in Amon Hen, but he's still really good whenever he's around.

Elrond! I thought that was just a rumor on gamefaqs or some shit! Please don't tell me you guys are pulling my leg.

Then again, I only read LOTR once. Maybe you have to read it twice to recruit Elrond? Like Pelleas in FE10?

Staves don't seem that useful in LOTR, since they obviously serve a different purpose than in FE, but I realize I am being an anal douchebag by actually making this argument when you (and everyone else in this topic) is having fun.

It seems to me that we have to decide whether we will tier characters like was done in FE10, where availability did matter.

[Balcerzak]

I was going to argue Galadriel way up, but then I noticed this is the Free Peoples Route only, and so the Dark Queen Route has no bearing here.

But still, she is singlehandedly responsible for all those treasures in Lothlorien, and don't tell me you managed to get past the Mordor chapters without making liberal use of lembas!

[-Cynthia-]

Galdriel giving you the gifts is a plot event, so it can't really help her tier position. Plus, all she gives Gimli is a lock of her hair, which does absolutely nothing.

[Parrhesia]

Holy shit.

What kind of monstrosity have I wrought...?

Theoden raised to below Gandalf the Grey. Eowyn, Arwen, Denethor lowered. New tier 'Wingspear!Barst' created purely to serve as a buffer between Cliff Lee tier (now contains Tom Bombadil) and Top Tier (which Sam has been lowered to). KotD raised to somewhere in Mid.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Yossarian

[Narga_Rocks]

New tier 'Wingspear!Barst' created purely to serve as a buffer between Cliff Lee tier (now contains Tom Bombadil) and Top Tier (which Sam has been lowered to).

How would wingspear barst be nearly as good as wingspear Caeda? He can't fly and has a lot less move. Plus his only lance using class is Knight/General, meaning even worse move than otherwise.

[Jaybee]

Too lazy to add a picture. Any changes I should make?

[Integrity]

Am I blatantly misremembering or didn't Ari have a bow/some skill with it?

[Narga_Rocks]

Am I blatantly misremembering or didn't Ari have a bow/some skill with it?

Well, in the movies I think all the humans and elves in the fellowship had bows. In the books? Don't remember. My books aren't with me so I can't check, either. If it isn't in the books then you are probably thinking of the movies.

It is likely they used bows, though. Especially Aragorn. He's a ranger. I suspect that means he's on his own or in small groups a lot running around. You'd need a bow since you wouldn't be able to have lots of specialists in different weapons like in an army.

[Erk]

I remember him having a hunting bow in the book, and in the movies.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Well, in the movies I think all the humans and elves in the fellowship had bows. In the books? Don't remember. My books aren't with me so I can't check, either. If it isn't in the books then you are probably thinking of the movies.

It is likely they used bows, though. Especially Aragorn. He's a ranger. I suspect that means he's on his own or in small groups a lot running around. You'd need a bow since you wouldn't be able to have lots of specialists in different weapons like in an army.

No. The book specifically states that when Aragorn leaves Rivendell with the Fellowship, Anduril is his ONLY weapon.

[Parrhesia]

Does he really need another?

Anyways, currently considering Hama > Denethor, for either being A) a disposable meatwall with a Steel Lance by default or B) Aran, but midgame and level 15.