RD Hard Mode Playthrough

[Narga_Rocks]

And as I said, they're equal. Naesala doesn't need Nasir (in fact, if he has SS Strike he can ORKO Sephiran with Parity), Nephenee needs one fewer shove to reach enemies.

capped str and 18 mt SS strike: 58 mt.

Sephiran: 25 def + 10 for Rudol Gem. In case you were hoping, no, sorry, Parity does not cancel Rudol Gem. If it did, so very many units would have a much easier time ORKOing him. Even Mia could do it. 51 mt over 25 def is 26 damage and he only has 50 hp. Parity only cancels cover. Do tell how he can ORKO Sephiran.

[Anouleth]

capped str and 18 mt SS strike: 58 mt.

Sephiran: 25 def + 10 for Rudol Gem. In case you were hoping, no, sorry, Parity does not cancel Rudol Gem. If it did, so very many units would have a much easier time ORKOing him. Even Mia could do it. 51 mt over 25 def is 26 damage and he only has 50 hp. Parity only cancels cover. Do tell how he can ORKO Sephiran.

Whoops, I remembered Sephiran as having 40 HP, not 50.

[Narga_Rocks]

Whoops, I remembered Sephiran as having 40 HP, not 50.

Then Ike could take him down. 55 mt, 36 spd (37 cap). Well, 34 or 35 spd is pretty easy for Ike, but maybe 36 isn't. Still, if you use him to finish off Deg or something to get an extra level, that plus all the earlier combat might do it.

Anyway, Giffca is basically your best bet, probably. If Nailah or Tibarn reach 20 str that also works, but they probably won't.

[Colonel M]

4-P

Turns - 5

BEXP - 1500

BEXP'd Nolan a level and sealed him. Gave him Provoke and Paragon. Jill was sadly forgotten (I intended to put her at .99) and was given Imbue to help her durability... sort of. This chapter has a shitload of 2 range. A. SHITLOAD. Man Int wasn't kidding about that (I took him seriously, I just never realized so much of it). If you don't have 2 range... boy do I feel sorry for you.

Since these are routs, I'm just going to explain the small stuff I did with each character.

Nolan pretty much solo'd the map. This isn't difficult with an average Nolan, but those that are a bit screwed may have a few issues. He needs to at least double the Warriors, which is sufficient work. After that it's merely placing him in the thickets. So long as he's in the Thickets, he -should- be okay. Paragon will help him build up on the durability that he loses from de-equiping Tarvos and having to go for his 2 range option. Eventually the dude was so badass he hit Level 10. That is no joke by the way.

Jill handled the east, attempting it by herself, and... well I guess I technically fucked up a lot of it. Adept would've been useful here, but I figured the GMs would need it more than the Silver Army. I also fucked up a lot with her: first equipping Short Axe instead of the Hand Axe forge (so she whiffed some enemies) and then mispositioning her so that she got attacked by the boss while he was on the Thickets, which made Horseslayer's accuracy go down (FFFFFFF-). Def-blessed Jill helped, but not necessary whatsoever since I would just use Concoction.

Haar and Naesala were used sparingly, though I had Haar go on rampage by Turn 4 because it was needed. Naesala could at least have a high chance of killing the Generals, which are the biggest pain in the ass.

Skrimir went north with Nolan. Thank God for his gauge. Since Nolan cleaned up the north side, Skrimir was positioned to take the reinforcements. Slightly unecessary, but he WAS needed for the General.

The rest Shovebotted for Leanne, except Micaiah who used Hammerne on Turn 1 with Nolan's Tarvos (which was probably unecessary, but w/e).

The chapter getting a 6 Turn clear is no sin. 5 is definitely doable, though you could suppose a 4 Turn is possible with more use from Haar. Since I'm trying to aim Nolan and Jill to Endgame (possibly the best Beorcs for Endgame barring Trueblade perhaps and Ike), I figured the return was worth it. Nolan is pretty much set for Endgame, so hopefully he stays steady on Str and we should be good to go. Jill will get Paragon in 4-3 to attempt to maximize her level. She'll simply do what Int did with Nolan in 4-3 perhaps.

Micaiah (3.73)
Skrimir (25.81)
Leanne (7.00)
Naesala (27.34)
Nolan (10.70) - 62 HP | 32 Str | 9 Mag | 33 Skl | 35 Spd | 30 Luck | 27 Def | 19 Res
Jill (6.05) - 55 HP | 28 Str | 10 Mag | 27 Skl | 30 Spd | 26 Luck | 29 Def | 20 Res
Haar (6.56) - 53 HP | 31 Str | 6 Mag | 31 Skl | 28 Spd | 16 Luck | 30 Def | 13 Res

4-1

Turns - 5

BEXP - 1875 / 18514

I just put Mia up to .99. I gave Ulki Adept. NOTE: ULKI WILL GET TEAR FOR 4-4! I just wanted to make sure I had enough padding to put Shinon, Nephenee, Jill, and Nolan perhaps at .99. I put Resolve + Wrath on Mordecai... which shockingly worked well. I wish I knew Silver Poleaxes would've let Titania ORKO the Generals because I was using up Hammer for no real reason basically. *Facepalm*.

Turn 1 - Nailah goes on the West and breaks a Sandbag. Titania picks up Mist and gets ready to take on some Generals! Ike and Mia KO the Crossbow Warrior and the other Warrior. Mordecai and Ulki Grass up to get ready for Turn 2. I position Mordecai so he'll get smacked by the Sniper. Note the Sniper does have 7 listed Crit on Mordecai (technically 12 but there's Daunt from Ike), so this was probably the only "ehhh" part. Janaff uses a Stone and then charges at the West Bishop.

Turn 2 - Start mobilizing Ulki, Janaff, Mia, and Ike down south. Mordecai sort of tags along because he isn't bad I guess. Sucks that he 3HKOes at best aside from Bishops. He's easy to throw into Wrath too (but I guess I put him in small danger with the Killer Axe Warrior). Nailah does usual rape, same with Titania.

Turn 3 - I pretty much clean up the rest of the area. Note that Ike can ORKO some of the Generals with a Mia support (otherwise he's missing it!). Janaff uses the Torch so I can see the Druids and thus position Mia w/Storm Sword and Ike to attack the Druids and "let shit die". Titania and Nailah do their thing.

Turn 4 - Pretty much Ike / Mia raping more. Mia is the safest unit to ORKO the boss here since she naturally doubles her and Str cap + promotion + Ike support puts her in KO range with the Silver Blade.

Turn 5 - Clean up.

Really the rout is simple. Mia and Ike are the best pairing and "Mia sucking" is an alien concept. Fuck what smash_fanatic says about Mia; she is the bomb.

4-2

Prep

This is a big one. Well, not "huge" but it is notable. I decide that I need the following resources pulled out.

- Shinon would appreciate a Silver Bow forge, but only lasting one chapter is questionable. Not only that, but it doesn't bring notable KOes to the table. Generals are even missed, sadly.

- Nephenee probably wants a Silver Lance forge. Though, to be honest she probably isn't far off from ORKOes like Shinon is either. It'd probably be nice for her to have one for convenience's sake. Steel Greatlance misses KOes. So, might as well.

- Nolan doesn't need a forge really. Tarvos is sufficient, and he can probably swing around Silver Poleaxes if necessary.

- Jill definitely wants one. She needs all the Mt she can get, and perhaps the accuracy too.

- lolHaar

- Mia might want a crit forge, but looking at the average of 27 Str and Silver Blade's 16 Mt that hands her, which hands her 43 Atk, or 45 with Ike. She might want the Crit forge for convenience. It's costly, but the efforts are that these enemies are tough as hell to KO anyway. Looking at Titania's 51 Atk with a Silver Axe forge she juuust clears 2HKOing Halberdiers and still 3HKOes Generals, so...

- Yeah Titania wants a forge perhaps. If even for +Hit's sake. I might skip out on it since the forge adds nothing aside from Hit.

So hopefuly at worst I need a Silver Axe forge for Jill, a Silver Lance forge for Nephenee, and a Silver Sword with +Crit for Mia. It should be sufficient... for now.

Turns - 9/19

BEXP - 2250/16009

*Facepalm* Inb4 dondon yells at me on this one.

Well on the bright side, I figured my mistakes. :Groan:. This chapter is a complete pain in the ass because only Ranulf can double the Warriors and Nephenee has to be right on schedule with Spd in order to pull it off right. Perhaps better planning would've gotten me a better turn count, but I admit: I am lazy with routs.

Pretty much: Send Shinon and Nephenee south with Reyson. This is the safest bet. Tibarn can handle the north. Eventually what I should've done was crept Elincia with Tibarn to kill off the Sages and the Bishops of course. Nephenee and Shinon can handle Valtome's area with Reyson at least. Ranulf for other MVP: Lucia sucks balls because she can't even double the reinforcement Warriors. What a failure.

=====

I will get Greil and Hawk Army stats later.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Tyranel M

[nflchamp]

You have bad luck with reinforcement warriors in 4-2. They can have 23AS in comparison to Lucia's base 27AS.

Note that this is pretty much a worthless point because Lucia's damage output and durability sucks too much to actually use her for the task of killing warriors quickly.

Edit: Actually, thinking back, Warriors are more likely to have 24AS. Lucia and Zihark dealt with Paladin reinforcements for me.

Edited September 15, 2010 by nflchamp

[dondon151]

Why wouldn't she? Putting Ena directly adjacent to Dheg gives you three Blood Tide spots, without stopping you from bracketing Dheg on the sides with 1-range attackers. Surely you realize that Cain and Giffca don't need Blood Tide in order to hurt D, and that as long as everyone is doubling and dealing >5 damage that it doesn't really matter who gets it as long as they aren't pushing out superior choices.

Actually, I do believe that adjacent Ena is strictly inferior to ranged Ena. Your ranged weapons strong enough to be denting Dheg are Wishblade, Double Bow, Ragnell, Alondite, and SS tomes. Double Bow is irrelevant because Shinon can attack from 3 range as well (albeit with a hit penalty). Using the ranged swords is strictly inferior to using a blessed Wyrmslayer, which has more MT without Blood Tide than either sword with Blood Tide. No one cares about SS tomes.

On the flip side, Urvan, Wyrmslayers, and laguz strikes attack from 1 range. You have 3 Nihils available for 4-E-3, right? Caineghis and Giffca already do 80 HP damage to Dheg combined with Blood tide. Throw in Tibarn for 11 x2 HP damage and you've got a dead dragon.

[Narga_Rocks]

Actually, I do believe that adjacent Ena is strictly inferior to ranged Ena. Your ranged weapons strong enough to be denting Dheg are Wishblade, Double Bow, Ragnell, Alondite, and SS tomes. Double Bow is irrelevant because Shinon can attack from 3 range as well (albeit with a hit penalty). Using the ranged swords is strictly inferior to using a blessed Wyrmslayer, which has more MT without Blood Tide than either sword with Blood Tide. No one cares about SS tomes.

On the flip side, Urvan, Wyrmslayers, and laguz strikes attack from 1 range. You have 3 Nihils available for 4-E-3, right? Caineghis and Giffca already do 80 HP damage to Dheg combined with Blood tide. Throw in Tibarn for 11 x2 HP damage and you've got a dead dragon.

But aren't they about the same anyway? The question is whether you can reach in one turn with enough units to ORKO.

PD
EP
P

Ena at range allows two adjacent blood ties and one for Shinon. Then there are extra spots around big D to attack without blood tide. As long as you double and have at least 50 atk, it doesn't really matter who gets the blood tides as long as you get the same number of units using blood tide.

_D_
PEP
_P_

You still get 3 and you have the added advantage that Shinon should have 100% hit rather than non-100 hit. I think even with a blood tide he falls below 100 thanks to the -30 penalty. Feel free to calculate if you think that's wrong. Or if it doesn't matter he can stand at 3 range and someone else can attack from a 2 range spot.

Really, though, with Rafiel and the Rescue staff it should be fairly easy to get enough units within attack range to wipe him out. And with 4 nihils and 2 parities, it probably doesn't even matter if Ire works at 2 range or only 1 range. Also, there is no difference between Cain getting blood tide and Neph not getting blood tide compared to Neph getting blood tide and Cain not. There likely isn't an actual superior option. Well, provided you can kill him with either Ena position with the same number of rescue uses. 0 is doable, right?

[Anouleth]

The advantage to ranged Ena is that 4 characters can take advantage of Blood Tide instead of 3, because the only cantoing units with good 1-2 range are Wishblade using Seraph Knights (who aren't likely to be in play). If you have a Seraph Knight in play, then I think it's fine, but otherwise I would stick with ranged Ena.

Ranged Ena also offers the possibility of saving a Rescue use with Wyrmslayers. Ordinarily, you need Ena + 4 units to kill Dheginsea, but Ike + Caineghis + Shinon + Ena would also do it if Ike had a Wyrmslayer.

(I thought there were 3 Nihils? Even if there isn't, you probably want Celerity or Pass on someone for easier positioning.)

[dondon151]

Really, though, with Rafiel and the Rescue staff it should be fairly easy to get enough units within attack range to wipe him out. And with 4 nihils and 2 parities, it probably doesn't even matter if Ire works at 2 range or only 1 range. Also, there is no difference between Cain getting blood tide and Neph not getting blood tide compared to Neph getting blood tide and Cain not. There likely isn't an actual superior option. Well, provided you can kill him with either Ena position with the same number of rescue uses. 0 is doable, right?

You only have 3 Nihils because you haven't recruited Nasir yet. Anyway, you'll want to minimize the number of units attacking Dheginsea (because you can only refresh 4 units with Rafiel and use Rescue so many times). You'll also need to somehow remove a dragon blocking the way to Dheginsea, and get Ena up there (who has bad move). I can't think of a configuration that will 3RKO Dheginsea from range (Neph does 11 x2 HP damage, Shinon does 16 x2 HP damage, and Ike does 10 x2 HP damage for 74 HP damage max, 86 HP damage if all have +2 atk from supports).

[Narga_Rocks]

You only have 3 Nihils because you haven't recruited Nasir yet. Anyway, you'll want to minimize the number of units attacking Dheginsea (because you can only refresh 4 units with Rafiel and use Rescue so many times). You'll also need to somehow remove a dragon blocking the way to Dheginsea, and get Ena up there (who has bad move). I can't think of a configuration that will 3RKO Dheginsea from range (Neph does 11 x2 HP damage, Shinon does 16 x2 HP damage, and Ike does 10 x2 HP damage for 74 HP damage max, 86 HP damage if all have +2 atk from supports).

But what the hell is stopping you from having Cain and Giffca poke at big D on the two spots on his sides? How does putting Ena in one of three easily reachable adjacent spots block the other 2? Can you explain that one for me?

Also, Anouleth, where do you get 4 blood tide spots from for ranged Ena? There are two adjacent spots and two 3-range spots. Unless you are using Rolf/Leo, you don't get anything out of the second 3-range spot.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Interceptor]

I like the idea of blowing a bless on a Wyrmslayer, and limiting someone to a shit weapon for Sephiran and the Auras/Ashera, because nothing else here really properly conveys the myopia of the people that are still arguing about this point.

[Narga_Rocks]

I like the idea of blowing a bless on a Wyrmslayer, and limiting someone to a shit weapon for Sephiran and the Auras/Ashera, because nothing else here really properly conveys the myopia of the people that are still arguing about this point.

For some reason they are using Mist or a non-combat Elincia? (Elincia needs Amiti blessed if you want her to do something meaningful against the auras)

Or two trueblades. They could probably trade a blessed Vague Katti in 4-E-5 so that they don't suck there with the wyrmslayer. Then again, why are you raising Eddie/Stefan/Lucia/Zihark for 4-E?

Edited September 15, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Anouleth]

Also, Anouleth, where do you get 4 blood tide spots from for ranged Ena? There are two adjacent spots and two 3-range spots. Unless you are using Rolf/Leo, you don't get anything out of the second 3-range spot.

Canto. You almost certainly have at least one character who can attack Degh and canto to leave the spot free. Jill, Tibarn, any Seraph Knight, they can all do it.

I like the idea of blowing a bless on a Wyrmslayer, and limiting someone to a shit weapon for Sephiran and the Auras/Ashera, because nothing else here really properly conveys the myopia of the people that are still arguing about this point.

Well, I found that with intelligent trading and shuffling of weapons, I could spread Wishblade between two Seraph Knights (who conveniently enough can bless Wyrmslayers as well). Not that it's particularly likely that you'd be fielding Marcia + Tanith in the first place. And if you did, you could just triangle attack with Elincia. Ena wouldn't even be necessary. But you'd still need Wyrmslayer.

But the only reason you would do this is to save a use of Rescue in 4-E-3. I don't think it's really worth it. Nine times out of ten, I'd bless something else.

[Narga_Rocks]

Canto. You almost certainly have at least one character who can attack Degh and canto to leave the spot free. Jill, Tibarn, any Seraph Knight, they can all do it.

There is Tibarn and Jill. I could counter that you might even be able to rescue Neph or something, but I'll grant there aren't all that many good 2 range options anyway (I don't count Alondite since the only Alondite users that can hit 34 speed have a str cap of 32 or less. Aside from Ike, I guess, but he has Ragnell anyway).

But why mention the Seraph Knights? Sure, wyrmslayer, but that assumes you are using multiple Seraph's or some other way to bless the wyrmslayer without making 4-E-5 more annoying. With just one of Marcia/Tanith, Seraph Knights are a better argument for adjacent Ena rather than ranged Ena.

[dondon151]

But what the hell is stopping you from having Cain and Giffca poke at big D on the two spots on his sides? How does putting Ena in one of three easily reachable adjacent spots block the other 2? Can you explain that one for me?

So you use Cain or Giffca on the side. That means that now, you must get Ena, Ike, Shinon, Neph, and Cain/Giffca up to Dheginsea. That's 5 units (or 1 more than 4 units). Consider that Ike, Shinon, Ena, and Neph will probably need shoves and that you'll need at least 1 use of Rescue. I'm not even completely sure that this is feasible in 1 turn without a highly specialized team.

I like the idea of blowing a bless on a Wyrmslayer, and limiting someone to a shit weapon for Sephiran and the Auras/Ashera, because nothing else here really properly conveys the myopia of the people that are still arguing about this point.

Because you really need all 8 or so available combat units to stomp Sephiran's face into the ground. Additionally, I'm sure you want Mist to beat some Auras with a blessed Florete or whatever.

[Narga_Rocks]

Additionally, I'm sure you want Mist to beat some Auras with a blessed Florete or whatever.

Who is bringing Mist? Maybe 0% growths she might be optimal-ish or something, but otherwise?

[dondon151]

Mounted Rescue? I'm sure you don't need all 10 free slots to be attackers (or even 9 slots), since 4-E-1 is dominated by a few units with awesome enemy phase and you pretty much can't do better than 2 turns on 4-E-5 without a highly specialized team that uses triangle attacks all over the place.

Edited September 15, 2010 by dondon151

[Narga_Rocks]

Mounted Rescue? I'm sure you don't need all 10 free slots to be attackers (or even 9 slots), since 4-E-1 is dominated by a few units with awesome enemy phase and you pretty much can't do better than 2 turns on 4-E-5 without a highly specialized team that uses triangle attacks all over the place.

So you want 2 mounted rescue units? Elincia comes pre-made, so I'm assuming you don't want Mist at the exclusion of Elincia. A rank gets her everything except Fortify (neither Mist nor Elincia can even get SS and we never get the el staves). But then, if you don't train Elincia you probably don't have to care about blessing Amiti either. Still, if you are going to bring her you might as well at least give her some levels and Amiti so she can help with the auras.

Anyway, didn't Interceptor manage to 1 turn each of 4-E-2 to 4-E-4 without even using Rescue and ditto with 2 turning 4-E-5? Sounds to me like mounted rescue is "nice" in the same way that Mist not getting ORKOd is "nice". Something not particularly valued by you when you aren't arguing a point in a way that "nice" helps you. It's "nice" that you have a mounted rescue staff user because it gives you more options, but what does that even mean for efficiency?

[Interceptor]

Because you really need all 8 or so available combat units to stomp Sephiran's face into the ground. Additionally, I'm sure you want Mist to beat some Auras with a blessed Florete or whatever.

There are a bajillion ways to kill Dheghinsea that don't involve the Wyrmslayer in any way, shape or form. Thank you for (inadvertently) agreeing with my point.

Anyway, didn't Interceptor manage to 1 turn each of 4-E-2 to 4-E-4 without even using Rescue and ditto with 2 turning 4-E-5?

It's irrelevant and I hate to continue to fan the Raging Fires of Meaningless Minutiae, but I did use Rescue twice out of laziness/eagerness to be done with the playthrough.

[Colonel M]

I hate to be the finger pointer, but can we please stop arguing semantics on the asdf amount of ways to kill Dheg? Or even do it elsewheres? <_<

[Narga_Rocks]

It's irrelevant and I hate to continue to fan the Raging Fires of Meaningless Minutiae, but I did use Rescue twice out of laziness/eagerness to be done with the playthrough.

I should rephrase the point. You didn't use a mounted rescue staff user. At least, I don't remember Mist or Elincia being sent to 4-E by you. Micaiah was apparently quite sufficient for Rescue duty, yes?

I hate to be the finger pointer, but can we please stop arguing semantics on the asdf amount of ways to kill Dheg? Or even do it elsewheres? <_<

Is that a "stop spamming my topic" request? I suppose since you made the topic we should maybe listen.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Colonel M]

Its not so much "you're spamming the topic" since the discussion is relevant. Yet, Naesala is so piss weak it barely matters. Even with Canto he has, what, 43 Atk I believe? That's equivalent to an S Rank Hawk. The only difference is the Spd ordeal. The only upper hands are that Naesala has Formshift and naturally can double the Auras, but the latter is somewaht moot with Nasir anyway and the point that the Hawks can Canto. Not sure if they can reach SS Strike though even going onto Ike's route. Still, you get the point: the characters you bring make a minor impact, some a little higher like the Detroit Lions, and that's about it.

[Anouleth]

Actually, looking at the numbers again, all you actually need to kill Deghinsea is Ena/Caineghis/Tibarn/Giffca. They're 2 points of damage short, so all you need to do is get one of them to proc +str and you're done.

Its not so much "you're spamming the topic" since the discussion is relevant. Yet, Naesala is so piss weak it barely matters. Even with Canto he has, what, 43 Atk I believe? That's equivalent to an S Rank Hawk. The only difference is the Spd ordeal. The only upper hands are that Naesala has Formshift and naturally can double the Auras, but the latter is somewaht moot with Nasir anyway and the point that the Hawks can Canto. Not sure if they can reach SS Strike though even going onto Ike's route. Still, you get the point: the characters you bring make a minor impact, some a little higher like the Detroit Lions, and that's about it.

I have no idea how you got 43 attack. Even if Naesala had A Strike, he wouldn't have 43 ATK.

What's more, he's a good BEXP canditate. Strength is higher relative to his other growths than Nephenee, even after she caps speed and skill, he doesn't have to wait, and each point of strength is +2 damage instead of +1. I see no need to drag Naesala with base atk into endgame.

And naturally doubling Auras is very relevant. For a start, it puts Naesala on the waiting list for Parity. Second, Nasir is not always available. Often, the auras next to Nasir's tide spots die very quickly anyway. For example, the bottom-middle aura in 4-E-5 should always be the first to die since it can be 1-rounded by Caineghis or a Reaver. Canto is useful only because it frees up Tides for other people, it won't actually allow the Birds to use any Tides that they wouldn't ordinarily.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Mr. Know-it-all-Anouleth

[dondon151]

Actually, looking at the numbers again, all you actually need to kill Deghinsea is Ena/Caineghis/Tibarn/Giffca. They're 2 points of damage short, so all you need to do is get one of them to proc +str and you're done.

Wait, you shouldn't even need the str proc. Caineghis has 71 atk, Giffca has 69 atk, and Tibarn has 61 atk. So Caineghis does 21 x2, Giffca does 19 x2, and Tibarn does 11 x2. They're actually 2 HP damage above the target.

[nflchamp]

I like the idea of blowing a bless on a Wyrmslayer, and limiting someone to a shit weapon for Sephiran and the Auras/Ashera, because nothing else here really properly conveys the myopia of the people that are still arguing about this point.

I plan on having Tanith bless Wrymslayer. She will proceed to trade Wishblade with Neph for all important matters.