I think I'm biased against prepromotes.

[Anouleth]

Oh, some prepromotes I just love. Igrene, Percival, Zealot, Vaida, Jaffar, Isadora, Syrene, Tanith, they're all really cool. I don't really use prepromotes much, but I recognise that I should when many of them are really very good.

[Roxas]

Let's see...

- Marcus

- Zealot, though mediocre to some extents

- Klein

- Percival

- Niime

- Yodel

- Echinda

I'd call Cecilia pretty bleh, but she has some moderate uses (auto-Aircalibur and C Staves on a pony is pretty nifty at times).

Yuno. YUNO! D:<

[Ϲharlie]

Yuno. YUNO! D:<

A failboat like Yuno doesn't prevent the characters he listed from being good/having use.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Promoted units love FE3 Book 2 because EXP gain is always equal and the silly "Est/Nino archetype character is low level so he/she levels up faster" mindset is dead there.

Having green numbers on stats is overrated.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Sirius

[Oblivion Knight]

I'm generally against premotes myself, I only use them actively if I know they're good like Seth,Wolf or Sedgar. If they're not good units, they're generally filler.

[luigi bros]

I'm also biased against them. But there are some good ones.

[Colonel M]

FEDS probably had the worst rolling with prepromotes (FE10 is hard to distinguish the prepromoted thing; I guess Tier 3 units?). Whoever said Jeigan is only useful for the first two chapters should automatically be shot on the spot. Chapter 3 is hell with Fighters having a shitload of HP and enough Atk to slice your crew in half. Jeigan can eck out a 3HKO; just barely, with the Iron Sword and placing him on a fort IIRC. It's been a while since I played FEDS though. Anyway, Jeigan pretty much has uses all the way up until Chapter 10 perhaps when it probably is okay to let him go, and even then I can find uses for him. Aside from Jeigan, we have Wendell, Zagaro, Wolf, and Boah (Warpskip conditions) that stand out as useful. Then we hit... the garbage disposals like Astram, Arran, and Lorenz.

Marth is very difficult to ever surpass Jeigan as well. Marth has 5 base Str, Iron Swords until Chapter 2/3 where he can land a Steel Sword, and has an effective weapon that only has a whopping 5 Mt. Meanwhile, Jeigan has Silver Lance which ties base Marth's Str + Steel Sword before Jeigan's Str, access to Ridersbane, and reclass. Marth surpassing Jeigan in offense doesn't likely happen until he miraculously reaches 14 Spd | Silver Swords, and even then that's not a lot to say offensively.

Yuno. YUNO! D:<

Yuno has flight utility for... a couple of chapters. Not to mention that you have Miledy, Tate, Thany, AND Zeiss in tow before you even have Yuno. Granted that Yuno is at least promoted, but you get the point: I'm talking with access to combat parameters as well.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Colonel M

[Smiley Jim]

My view on prepromoted characters:

I'm not biased against them, like Darros here is, but usually I favor units that have more room to grow, in other words, units that have to be raised from a lower level. That isn't to say that I don't use prepromotes at all. In most games, I can usually find a use for the Jeigan character, even if I'm not fielding them long term(For instance, I use FE11!Jagen to weaken enemies for my other units to kill. He won't kill them if he uses an Iron sword twice, though I find Draug to be more useful for weakening since he has better potential(and the highest def base/growth in my standard posse, as low as it is for his class, so he gets to tinking durability a LOT sooner))

That is not to say all prepromotes are just crap. Low growths are characteristics of Jeigan characters, not prepromotes in general(though the prepromotes in FE11 are crap aside from the following: Zagaro, Wolf, and Minerva). I have seen prepromoted units in other games that have great stats for their base level and good growths to go with the bases.

Here are some examples of excellent prepromotes to use(by game, not counting FE1 since FE3 book 1 covers for that game and FE2 since I know nothing about Gaiden)

For FE10, I'm listing prepromotes based on what part you are in.

Part 1: Anything 2nd tier

Part 2-3: Anything Lv13> 2nd tier

Part 4: Anything 3rd tier

FE3 Book 1: Minerva, Midia, Samson, Lorenz

FE3 Book 2: Sirius, Minerva, Abel

FE4: You know what, all of them are good to use.

FE5: Olwen, Dean, Xavier, Sety, Galzus

FE6: Percival, Bartre, Douglas, Karel

FE7: Pent, Hawkeye, Harken, Karel, Jaffar

FE8: Seth, Duessel, Innes, Saleh

FE9: Titania, Stefan, Geoffrey

FE10: Sothe, Zihark, Geoffrey, Titania, Shinon, Stefan, Volke

FEDS: Wolf, Sedgar, Minerva

[Narga_Rocks]

FE4: You know what, all of them are good to use.

Even Hannibal?

[Darros]

Get ready for huge response!

Then again, Arran exists.

Jeigan or no Jeigan, he fails either way.

You tend to be right a lot of times, but you must remember that sometimes, you can be really, really wrong :).

Like Sedgar and Wolf? Who have recently taken steps down to Barst and others.

I guess it's because I feels like I've achieved something when I see my (initially weak) units running around pwning everything in sight.

Agreed, and the prepromotes are usually initially stronger/have uber weapons.

I also dislike prepromotes. I hardly ever use them and my teams usually end up semi-decent. Though training weak units can be a pain especially when they get screwed on stats.

Est.

Darros is a prepromote now.

Worst part of FE12

Whatever, I still have FE1DS to utilise him the best I can.

And there's Wolf and Sedgar who made H5 actually bearable. 

And numerous others.

Such as H5 Jagen. And Sirius.

FE7 - If you're doing an all-horse run, Marcus gets one distinct advantage over EVERYONE - level 1 with a B in Axes.  Even if you're not doing my mounted run, Marcus, Pent, Karel, and Hawkeye can hold their own (and if you're on Hector Hard, Harken).

The prepromotes arent horrible in this game. Wallace has his uses in Lyn mode.

FESD - Not counting the Wolfguard (where Wolf and Sedgar stole part of Roshea and Vyland's growths), it looks like Horace got some decent bases, Wendell got the weapon levels, and Minerva gets her axe and some decent growths (good Strength, insane Defense).  I haven't tried using Astram, but his growths (save Speed) don't look too bad.

Some prepromotes are good, just as some unpromoted units are bad *glares at Wrys*.  Try everyone out a few times, and see what happens.

Wrys epic fails in any class, though RNG Blessed Sage!Wrys is lulzy.

The prepromotes you mentioned are OK. Then again I still don't use 'em much, if at all.

[Parrhesia]

Usually I only dedicatedly train a select few regulars; most of the other half or so of my team is made up of prepromotes. Insta-promoted level 10s fill the gaps. (Of course, the last part would probably enjoy less success in a non-GBA title).

But yeah, most prepromotes have at least some use, and many are units that can fight ably and effectively, despite a possible inability to go the full distance.

[Smiley Jim]

Even Hannibal?

In a word, yes, and no.

Hannibal is only 'average' due to the fact that having 5 move doesn't pay off in FE4, good stats or no, due in part to the 100*100 maps and the fact that Johan/Johavla, Aless, and Shashka/Lakche have similar durability, but trump him in move(and don't let me get started on Altenna, bitch has 21 base def and a weapon that boosts def by 10, wins offense by a crapton, and has 8 move). But battle wise, he's above average(hits hard enough). His only problem is that he doesn't have pursuit and he only has 12 speed anyway, so the pursuit ring won't help him. He has Adept, but only has a 32% proc at base(For reference, base Sety has 56% adept proc, and he is 6 levels lower; granted he has a holy weapon that gives him +20 AS). I guess you could give him a brave sword to improve his offense, but that would mean giving up Lakche's main weapon(same with the other braves, except swap Lakche for Fee for the lance, Johan/Johavla for the axe, and Lester for the bow.) Efficiency wise, he's good as a castle guard(kind of like Ardan before him), but that's about it(you could give him a leg ring, but I'd rather give it to Leen so she can keep up with the Joneses the mounted guys).

Edited August 5, 2010 by DA125

[eclipse]

The prepromotes arent horrible in this game. Wallace has his uses in Lyn mode

Louise, Isadora, Karla, and Renault all say hi.

FE7 has its good prepromotes, and its garbage ones, just as FESD has some good ones and some that should've come unpromoted (hello Etzel).

[dondon151]

Uh, Louise and Isadora are good prepromotes. Louise mostly because she gives 3 def to Pent, but Isadora is good in her own right.

[eclipse]

When I first played HHM, Isadora died. Badly. She gets outclassed by just about everyone else on a horse (except for Lowen. . .sometimes).

If Louise's only purpose is tag-along, that's not my idea of a good unit. My units need the ability to hold their own - something she's not very good at.

[dondon151]

When I first played HHM, Isadora died. Badly. She gets outclassed by just about everyone else on a horse (except for Lowen. . .sometimes).

It doesn't occur to you that she outclasses everyone else not on a horse? 5 paladins are better than 4 paladins.

If Louise's only purpose is tag-along, that's not my idea of a good unit. My units need the ability to hold their own - something she's not very good at.

Louise has virtually sole access to the Silver Bow, which 2HKOs almost all enemies at that point in the game, and her base spd is sufficient for doubling for pretty much the rest of the game.

[Smiley Jim]

Uh, Louise and Isadora are good prepromotes. Louise mostly because she gives 3 def to Pent, but Isadora is good in her own right.

What are you smoking, dondon? Have you SEEN Louise's stats? Her str is absolutely terrible for a lv4 sniper. 12 str is what Wil had at Lv13/0, not 20/4. And her durability is ass. 9 def is what I'd like to see on a Lv4 sage, not a Lv4 sniper, and 28 HP is beyond terrible(at least 17 spd is alright). Actually, comparing a 20/4 Rebecca to base Louise, we see that Becky has sigificantly higher stats(+6 HP, +3 str/skl/spd; Louise wins def, but again, 9 def is still ass.) And if you are going to say that she has sole access to the silver bow, I can give that same bow to Wil or Becky and they can use it a lot better that Louise ever could.

Isadora is no different. Other than her speed, all her stats are mediocre for her level, and you know what, her con is just terrible. She loses a lot of AS if she tries to use a weapon that packs high might. The only thing saving her from the trash heap is that she's mounted. And no, I don't make horse-heavy teams.

I personally think those two are nothing special.

Edited August 6, 2010 by DA125

[eclipse]

It doesn't occur to you that she outclasses everyone else not on a horse? 5 paladins are better than 4 paladins.

The hell? I use two Paladins at most! Isadora's only saving grace is her low CON, meaning that if I need to pick up Wallace, I can (not that I use him to begin with).

Louise has virtually sole access to the Silver Bow, which 2HKOs almost all enemies at that point in the game, and her base spd is sufficient for doubling for pretty much the rest of the game.

If she's relying on an expensive-as-hell weapon to keep up with everyone (who are almost exclusively wielding Iron weapons/Javelins/Hand Axes/the cheapest Magic available, because I'm weird like that), then she's NOT A GOOD UNIT.

[Parrhesia]

If Louise's only purpose is tag-along, that's not my idea of a good unit. My units need the ability to hold their own - something she's not very good at.

If you didn't get Geitz and didn't train Erk, Lucius, Canas or Rebecca, she's your second best 2-range!

...Yay!

Also, she's pregnant. Imagine how well she'd fight if she wasn't. She could probably double God.

But seriously, it's not like you're hurting for deployment slots near endgame. I doubt there'll ever be fifteen units at any one time that can outclass her, and she helps Pent, who is the magical equivalent of Bruce Lee. While I'd hesitate to call her good, she's hardly terrible.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Agent Dale Cooper

[deleted35362]

I only use prepromotes when I don't train an unpromoted character

of the same class. Like, in FE7, I use Karel if I didn't train

Guy. Unless I get Harken, and I don't train Raven most of the

time.

[Anouleth]

What are you smoking, dondon? Have you SEEN Louise's stats? Her str is absolutely terrible for a lv4 sniper. 12 str is what Wil had at Lv13/0, not 20/4. And her durability is ass. 9 def is what I'd like to see on a Lv4 sage, not a Lv4 sniper, and 28 HP is beyond terrible(at least 17 spd is alright). Actually, comparing a 20/4 Rebecca to base Louise, we see that Becky has sigificantly higher stats(+6 HP, +3 str/skl/spd; Louise wins def, but again, 9 def is still ass.) And if you are going to say that she has sole access to the silver bow, I can give that same bow to Wil or Becky and they can use it a lot better that Louise ever could.

The difference between Louise and Wil/Rebecca is that Louise didn't have an awful earlygame. She comes free, a prepackaged Sniper, and she didn't detract from the awesome earlygame units that you could be training (Kent, Sain, Lowen, Raven, Erk, Lucius).

Isadora is no different. Other than her speed, all her stats are mediocre for her level, and you know what, her con is just terrible. She loses a lot of AS if she tries to use a weapon that packs high might. The only thing saving her from the trash heap is that she's mounted. And no, I don't make horse-heavy teams.

Well, even mediocre stats can be good enough if you back it up with awesome movement and complete WTC, as well as some kickass supports. Dark affinity, with two fast Fire supports? That's full CRT/HIT/AVO, and she can ramp up her critical rate to swordmaster levels.

[Smiley Jim]

The difference between Louise and Wil/Rebecca is that Louise didn't have an awful earlygame. She comes free, a prepackaged Sniper, and she didn't detract from the awesome earlygame units that you could be training (Kent, Sain, Lowen, Raven, Erk, Lucius).

If I'm going to use a unit, I'd rather raise the unit from a lower level then have it join later with mediocre base stats. True, Becky has an awful earlygame rut, I will admit. But I'd rather use the unit that has the better 20/20 stats, so Becky>Louise in that case.

Well, even mediocre stats can be good enough if you back it up with awesome movement and complete WTC, as well as some kickass supports. Dark affinity, with two fast Fire supports? That's full CRT/HIT/AVO, and she can ramp up her critical rate to swordmaster levels.

Supports or no supports, it doesn't change the fact that she has mediocre str and def. And trust me, I'd rather use units who don't need the support to begin with(I'll still support units for the sake of support), In my view, supports are there as a bonus, not because my units need it. I also have better things to do than use a mediocre prepromote when I already have a team set up(and you now what, I'm already busy training my wyvern rider, who joins on the same chapter as her.) And WTC doesn't matter when you lose 4 AS if you try to use an axe(and I'd rather use my body rings elsewhere).

Edited August 6, 2010 by DA125

[dondon151]

What are you smoking, dondon? Have you SEEN Louise's stats? Her str is absolutely terrible for a lv4 sniper. 12 str is what Wil had at Lv13/0, not 20/4. And her durability is ass. 9 def is what I'd like to see on a Lv4 sage, not a Lv4 sniper, and 28 HP is beyond terrible(at least 17 spd is alright). Actually, comparing a 20/4 Rebecca to base Louise, we see that Becky has sigificantly higher stats(+6 HP, +3 str/skl/spd; Louise wins def, but again, 9 def is still ass.) And if you are going to say that she has sole access to the silver bow, I can give that same bow to Wil or Becky and they can use it a lot better that Louise ever could.

What are you smoking? There are so many things wrong with your qualification that I don't even know where to begin. First, it's completely irrelevant that x stat is "absolutely terrible" for a level y unit. The only qualification is that a stat has to be good enough at any point to perform a certain task (and 12 str with access to Silver Bow and Killer Bow is most certainly good enough). Second, what makes you think that sniper durability matters at all? Don't let her get attacked - it's a fairly simple task, given her 2 range lock - and it honestly wouldn't make a difference at all if she had 20 def or 9 def. Third, comparing stats without interpreting them has no argumentative weight at all, because unit x can have +10 on unit y's stats, but if they can both perform the same tasks, then the statistical lead is irrelevant. Fourth, I am assuming that the player isn't using Wil or Rebecca in the long term, because it takes significantly more time and effort to get them to the point where Louise is, and they're also the lowest priority for kills because earlygame archers are best for weakening enemies, not killing them.

Isadora is no different. Other than her speed, all her stats are mediocre for her level, and you know what, her con is just terrible. She loses a lot of AS if she tries to use a weapon that packs high might. The only thing saving her from the trash heap is that she's mounted. And no, I don't make horse-heavy teams.

You're right; Isadora is no different. Her parameters are perfectly serviceable (about equivalent to an 18/0 Kent), her con isn't an issue when she has access to Silver Swords (not like she minds the AS loss from heavier weapons such as Killer Lances and Lancereavers), and she's almost invincible given a reaver weapon against the proper weapon type due to -30 hit from WTD.

The hell? I use two Paladins at most! Isadora's only saving grace is her low CON, meaning that if I need to pick up Wallace, I can (not that I use him to begin with).

What's stopping you from using more than 2 paladins? Is it an arbitrary urge to maintain class diversity, when there is no such advantage to doing so? Even consider that when you're using a lot of infantry, having more paladins is better because there are more units that you can easily perform rescue + drop with to advance your infantry faster. Unless you're doing a themed playthrough, or unless you're just screwing around for fun (in which case, you shouldn't even be arguing about the merits and demerits of prepromotes in the first place), there is no reason for you to not stock up your team with 5 paladins.

If she's relying on an expensive-as-hell weapon to keep up with everyone (who are almost exclusively wielding Iron weapons/Javelins/Hand Axes/the cheapest Magic available, because I'm weird like that), then she's NOT A GOOD UNIT.

You have tons of cash. You don't get brownie points for hoarding it. Furthermore, compared to purchasing stat boosters and promotion items, high class weaponry are only marginally more expensive than low class weaponry. Again, if you're willing to arbitrarily deny accessible resources to units, you shouldn't be arguing about the merits or demerits of prepromotes in the first place.

[eclipse]

What's stopping you from using more than 2 paladins? Is it an arbitrary urge to maintain class diversity, when there is no such advantage to doing so? Even consider that when you're using a lot of infantry, having more paladins is better because there are more units that you can easily perform rescue + drop with to advance your infantry faster. Unless you're doing a themed playthrough, or unless you're just screwing around for fun (in which case, you shouldn't even be arguing about the merits and demerits of prepromotes in the first place), there is no reason for you to not stock up your team with 5 paladins.

Why should I? The other classes are there, so why should I limit myself to horses? Why does YOUR play style determine whether or not I can put my two cents in about prepromotes?

You have tons of cash. You don't get brownie points for hoarding it. Furthermore, compared to purchasing stat boosters and promotion items, high class weaponry are only marginally more expensive than low class weaponry. Again, if you're willing to arbitrarily deny accessible resources to units, you shouldn't be arguing about the merits or demerits of prepromotes in the first place.

Or, perhaps it's because I like the fact that Iron weapons are really light, have good accuracy, lots of uses, are really cheap, and I care about that Funds ranking at the end.

A unit used in one particular style of play may not be ideal for another style of play. I know my style of play is really different from yours, but it is NOT necessarily inferior. Please keep that in mind.

[Narga_Rocks]

Why should I? The other classes are there, so why should I limit myself to horses? Why does YOUR play style determine whether or not I can put my two cents in about prepromotes?

because it brings into question your standards. What makes a unit "good"? Flashing green numbers? Hardly. It's what they do for you. If you are comparing an 8 move mounted unit to a 6 move unit, Isadora clearly has a pretty nice advantage for helping you to clear maps faster or more easily or whatever reasonable standard you use to determine worth. There is no requirement to use something of every class or whatever, so having better Paladins does nothing to prevent you using Isadora. If Isadora has advantages over the foot units, then Isadora has advantages. Simple as that.

Or, perhaps it's because I like the fact that Iron weapons are really light, have good accuracy, lots of uses, are really cheap, and I care about that Funds ranking at the end.

I'm pretty sure lots of people easily 5 star funds despite using killers and silvers more often than you. Silver card makes it much easier.

A unit used in one particular style of play may not be ideal for another style of play. I know my style of play is really different from yours, but it is NOT necessarily inferior. Please keep that in mind.

Everyone's playstyle is just fine for themselves. The question comes with how much worth does it have when discussing how good units are. If a player enjoys arena abusing until they get bored of it then their idea of better units will be vastly different than my idea. Their idea is also not particularly helpful for the discussion of which units are good. Similarly, you feeling compelled to use units of each type or others feeling compelled to raise units from low level to higher level if they get better 20/20 stats doesn't really indicate which units are actually more capable of assisting in an easier/faster/safer playthrough. Your team composition is a symptom of your preferences. Your "style of play" is different from those preferences. You'd probably do fine if you replaced a few of the units you use simply because of your preferences. You'd probably even find things easier. Style of play involves how well you are able to use the various units and how much each unit helps you get through the game. Your style would be like turtling or abusing or trying to get low turns or a compromise between turtling and low turns that focuses on safety first and speed second. Those types of differences from player to player have nothing to do with "I like to have a diverse team and I like to raise units from infancy" (some of that is your concern, some of that is the concern of a couple of the other anti-Isadora/Louise arguers).

Also, keep in mind that the promo item spent on the archers to make them snipers costs money. Your precious "ranks" are easier to achieve if you don't promote as many units. The money saved by selling a promo item (or not needing to buy one) is then transferred into the purchasing or using of more killers/silvers. Quite frankly, I can't imagine that you'd need so many killers/silvers to use Louise well in comparison to the archers that Louise would fall behind in the Funds Rank comparison. She might even win by a fair margin.