Normal Mode tier list

[Dat Nick]

Planning on a reverse Lunatic tier list in the future, but right now everybody's having enough fun with Lunatic. Anyway, this game is more than hard enough to warrant tiers even on NM, so I'd prefer any "OBSOLETE OBSOLETE ONLY NEED LUNATIC TIER BAWH" comments be kept to themselves.

Anyway.

Negative contributions DO exist. Characters like Matthis, Radd, and Ceasar are going to flush a bunch of turns down the toilet just to recruit them that they are never going to earn back, and get their own special tier for it. Don't like the rule, go to the Lunatic list. I'll omit Radd and Ceasar if they aren't aggressive as enemies like they (apparently) are on the hard modes; I wouldn't actually know, I just killed em on turn 1.

Gaidens are assumed; just because you're getting 3x whether you like it not as beating chapters fast goes hand in hand with the requirements, 10 and 13x are for the same reasons and so is 6x if you don't have to keep Rickard alive (stuff like this was never confirmed) and My Unit really has no business not being at 5 promoted by C16, so at this point it just degrades into "fuck it let's get em all".

Prologue utility exists, but you pretty much don't have any if you're an inferior choice on the split branches like Gordin and Est are. Dunno about Ogma and Draug, but I'm kinda leaning on Draug being the worse one. Just clarifying that.

Oh, and do keep in mind I haven't played this game in a while (And my adapter just broke so I won't be able to for a while) so there's a good reason if some of this looks off. I'll do a quick blaze through the game again and gather enemy stats and stuff when my DS works again.

Merged reclass is assumed here.

As usual, the more turns you save, the higher you go.

K, so...

Top:

Fina

Catria

Palla

Sirius

My Male Unit

My Female Unit

High:

Frey

Nabarl

Ogma

Luke

Draug

Rody

Cain

Cecile

Minerva

Shiida

Barst

Linde

UpMid:

Marth

Julian

Maric

Malisia

Elran

Etzel

Michalis

Roger

Middle:

Riff

Athena

Yumina

Arran

Castor

Chiki

Ymir

Jake

Nagi

Jeorge

Wendell

Raiden

Belf

Abel

Beck

Lower Mid:

Ryan

Gordin

Rickard

Warren

Chainey

Dice

Astram

Katrina

Cord

Bord

Malice

Daross

Horace

Robert

Norne

Low:

Yubello

Ceasar

Dolph

Macellan

Tomas

Frost

Samson

Midia

Samto

Radd

Sheema

Est

Bishop: (Random note: I WAS going to call this tier Jonas Brothers+Justin Bieber just for the hell of it)

Lena

Maria

Elice

Nina

Negative Utility: (Partly named this because I love how bent out of shape people get over a tier name)

Matthis

Don't know what to do with these guys yet (As in, not really sure if they constitute as negative or not. This is normal mode, it shouldn't take THAT long to get them, if it even takes time at all):

Roshe

Vyland

Zagaro

Wolf

Bantu (Who I'm unsure of for a completely different reason. I get he's utility, but where should I stick him in?)

Didn't really take the time to double check the list for any obvious issues. If it's broke, it can always be fixed later.

So yeah how fucked is it

Edited August 3, 2010 by Cav!Gordin

[Riff]

Why is higher than Yumina? Yumina is starting with C rank already and can use Aum later. Etzel is useful too because of his DEF and Daros ist that bad. And why is My Class A Unit higher than my female unit? They both are same and she even more useful because of the peg and general.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Riff

[Dat Nick]

Why is Posted Image higher than Yumina?

Prologue utility.

and can use Aum later.

Oh please, like that actually means anything.

Etzel is useful too because of his DEF

I stated otherwise...? Hips-boy wants him in the same tier as Elran of Maric, I'm not sure if the answer is him up or them down.

DEF and Daros ist that bad.

He can move up a bit, but I still don't see him Middle or anything.

And why is My Class A Unit higher than my female unit? They both are same and she even more useful because of the peg and general.

...Oh, yeah. I'm a little too used to the "female unit sucks" mentality, sorry.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Cav!Gordin

[_____]

How does recruiting Radd and Caesar take turns? You can one turn 6x even on Lunatic without them dying.

[Riff]

Daros should be higher because his STR and silver axe is useful against fat dragons

[TheEnd]

Merged reclass is assumed here.

Merged reclass is unlocked when you beat a hard mode. While it's reasonable to presume that somebody tackling Lunatic has beaten at least Hard 1 first, I believe the same doesn't quite happen with Normal.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

Why the heck is cav/peg My Unit not in top tier? And what's Fina doing above Catria? Fina is going to have a hard time keeping up with the top tiers on this mode due to lack of move/flight. Also weaker enemies means the tier player can be far more aggressive with his use of the top/high tiers. This should limit her utility. She will probably end up just using dance on Marth more often than not.

[Deliriyum]

Draug>Rody

In chapter 1, Draug can have 11 speed with cavalier(mixed sets). If mixed sets aren't being considered, then he can have 26 hp/13 str/11 spd/3 def with fighter.

Basically, Draug will be winning in offense forever. Also, Rody isn't even that vital to the prologue.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Core

[_____]

High:

Frey

Cain

My Female Unit

Luke

Rody

Minerva

Shiida

Barst

Linde

My Class B Unit

Ogma

UpMid:

My Class A Unit

How are Cain and Frey above Shiida or Barst, let alone any of the My Units or Luke and Rody or even Cecil? It doesn't make sense.

Julian

Draug

Maric

Malisia

Cecile

Elran

Michalis

Nabarl

Castor

Cecil under Merric? Under Minerva? She has 13 chapters of availability on Minerva and by the time we recruit her, Cecil will probably be nearing promotion anyway, and it's very unlikely that she'll be losing to Minerva, outside of in Weapon Ranks.

Michalis above... well, basically everyone? Yeah, right.

Middle:

Riff

Athena

Yumina

Arran

Castor

Chiki

Ymir

Etzel

Jake

Nagi

Jeorge

Wendell

Raiden

Belf

Abel

Beck

Athena is nowhere near this high. Even on Normal, when you get her back in 13x, she's complete garbage, and she's nowhere near as useful in the Normal Prologue as in the Lunatic one.

Castor's in Upper Mid and Mid.

Ymir above Etzel? Why is there a tier gap between Etzel and the other two mages in the first place?

Arran is much too low. His bases really aren't that different from Sirius'.

Lower Mid:

Ryan

Gordin

Rickard

Warren

Chainey

Dice

Astram

Katrina

Cord

Bord

Roger

Malice

Daross

Robert

Norne

Malice under Dice doesn't really make sense, and they should both probably be higher than the Sable Knights, at least.

Low:

Dolph

Macellan

Tomas

Frost

Samson

Midia

Samto

Sheema

Est

samto in bottom

below midia

um what

These are just some of my first impressions.

[Mr. Francis York Morgan]

^Pretty much everything Ninji just said.

[Dat Nick]

How does recruiting Radd and Caesar take turns? You can one turn 6x even on Lunatic without them dying.

...Oh, really? More details?

Merged reclass is unlocked when you beat a hard mode. While it's reasonable to presume that somebody tackling Lunatic has beaten at least Hard 1 first, I believe the same doesn't quite happen with Normal.

Anything that's going to beat the game faster is assumed.

Why the heck is cav/peg My Unit not in top tier?

Because this isn't FEDS NM and enemies aren't the failure sacks of shit we're used to seeing? It takes more than a mount to actually be good this time. Not MUCH more than a mount, but throughout early-midgame My UnitCav's speed isn't really cutting it. MyUnitPeg's? Possibly that would be sufficient.

Draug>Rody

In chapter 1, Draug can have 11 speed with cavalier(mixed sets). If mixed sets aren't being considered, then he can have 26 hp/13 str/11 spd/3 def with fighter.

Basically, Draug will be winning in offense forever.

Righty-o.

How are Cain and Frey above Shiida or Barst, let alone any of the My Units or Luke and Rody or even Cecil? It doesn't make sense.

And exactly how doesn't it? Unless you gave Luke and Rody like a million levels or something, they won't have as good bases as Frey/Cain, or at least Frey, and growth wise Frey is arguably better.

Cecil under Merric? Under Minerva? She has 13 chapters of availability on Minerva and by the time we recruit her, Cecil will probably be nearing promotion anyway, and it's very unlikely that she'll be losing to Minerva, outside of in Weapon Ranks.

fair enough

Michalis above... well, basically everyone? Yeah, right.

Have you SEEN his bases? Availability is really the only thing working against him. PEMN and all that, I know, but he was better than my maxed level Minerva in everywhere, and she wasn't that badly RNG screwed, if at all. The lack of availability hurts his case, sure, but I don't see any reason he's not mid tier at worst.

Athena is nowhere near this high. Even on Normal, when you get her back in 13x, she's complete garbage

You don't really think I don't know this, do you?

and she's nowhere near as useful in the Normal Prologue as in the Lunatic one.

Disagreed. She's ORKOing bandits now. That's quite useful. Maybe it isn't Mid-tier useful, but she's plenty useful enough to get some prologue utility points.

Castor's in Upper Mid and Mid.

whoops

*baleets the one in upmid*

Ymir above Etzel? Why is there a tier gap between Etzel and the other two mages in the first place?

It's already been addressed, Etzel and the other two mages will be in the same tier, I just don't know if it's a better move to move him up or them down.

Arran is much too low. His bases really aren't that different from Sirius'.

Only Sirius has growth rates and Arran doesn't, so while Sirius will keep doubling faster things, Arran hits a dead stop shortly after his Jeigan utility is over and done with. Arran isn't anything more than utility while he lasts, I see no reason he shouldn't be middle. Now, granted, this IS Normal Mode where he lasts a little longer than he's meant to, but I still want a decent argument as to why he should move up if you want him to.

Malice under Dice doesn't really make sense

why

and they should both probably be higher than the Sable Knights, at least.

why

EDIT: RRRGH, I keep forgetting there's a decent availability gap between those guys. Okay, maybe there's a case, but you still haven't explained Malice>Dice at all.

samto in bottom

below midia

um what

I'm seriously considering nulling everything you just said if I honestly need to explain to you why Samto is a shitty unit.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Cav!Gordin

[General Spoon]

Where is Male MU?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Anything that's going to beat the game faster is assumed.

Throw in the Online shop then since the Again and Rescue staves there will certainly help more than the Class merge :P

[Dat Nick]

Where is Male MU?

Not there. The list is divided by My Class A Unit and my Class B unit...

...But wait, if we're assuming merge (which we are) then it should just be my Male and my Female unit, shouldn't it? Brain failure, no idea how that one slipped by me.

Throw in the Online shop then since the Again and Rescue staves there will certainly help more than the Class merge

Anything that doesn't require wi-fi online shop specific dates, happy?

Edited August 2, 2010 by Cav!Gordin

[riariadne]

Anything that's going to beat the game faster is assumed.

That's a poor excuse for beating HM before NM. We should out everyone in top tier because we can technically hack everyone's class to Emperor with all maxed stats and an infinite use Gradivus.

See how terrible of reasoning that is?

[Dat Nick]

That's a poor excuse for beating HM before NM. We should out everyone in top tier because we can technically hack everyone's class to Emperor with all maxed stats and an infinite use Gradivus.

This isn't open for debate. Reclass merge is assumed, that's final. Just like how Transfers are assumed on the FE10 list and et cetera.

I won't even respond to how painfully irrelevant your analogy is.

[Acacia Sgt]

Marth is missing from the list...

[Dat Nick]

Wow, fail on my part...

Fixed...

[MC50]

Horace is also not on the Tier List. Not sure if anyone else is missing.

[Gemini-Saga]

Isn't Chiki low for NM?

She can use all Dragon Stones in NM.

And Start the Rape...

[Don Draper]

Caeser and Radd can easily be kept alive with a 1 turn strategy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbKttuRU_28

Also, Ryan three tiers below Rody is <_<

Not to mention being below failures like Castor, Ymir and Belf to say the least.

EDIT: Major WTF at Frey and Cain's positions

Edited August 3, 2010 by Ari Gold

[Darros]

Xane/Chainy and Feena/Fina should be on a Unique Ability tier like the Lunatic list.

EDIT: Wheres Yubello? And Yumina higher.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Darros

[_____]

...Oh, really? More details?

herp

And exactly how doesn't it? Unless you gave Luke and Rody like a million levels or something, they won't have as good bases as Frey/Cain, or at least Frey, and growth wise Frey is arguably better.

You raised Athena to fucking Mid because of the prologue, and you're pretty much ignoring it for Luke and Rody when they're there for more chapters and not much worse? Furthermore, there's an 11 chapter availability difference between Frey and these two, and 14 for Cain.

Now, about the "they won't be as good as Frey or Cain at base" thing...

8/0 Luke:

26 HP, 11 Strength, 10 Speed, 9 Defense

8/0 Rody:

25 HP, 9 Strength, 10 Speed, 8 Defense

Base Frey:

26 HP, 11 Strength, 10 Speed, 10 Defense

So, Frey's has basically no lead on Luke, and marginal leads on Rody. Cain is basically the same thing as Frey, but 3 chapters later, meaning there's pretty much no way that Cain can win.

So, yeah, Rody and Luke are there for a little less than a third of the game (and it's not like we're talking about Ryan-level combat parameters here) more than Frey and Cain and then Frey and Cain join, who are pretty much the same thing as Luke and Rody from that point on.

Have you SEEN his bases? Availability is really the only thing working against him. PEMN and all that, I know, but he was better than my maxed level Minerva in everywhere, and she wasn't that badly RNG screwed, if at all. The lack of availability hurts his case, sure, but I don't see any reason he's not mid tier at worst.

You've already given the reason why. He's around for 3 chapters, and these chapters are filled pretty much exclusively filled with all types of Dragons (Mage Dragons and Fire Dragons are the most common, and the former is pretty damn menacing to Michalis), Sorcerers, and, like, 3 Berserkers. Michalis has 5 Res and 44 HP. It only takes 27 magic MT to 2HKO him, and Magestones are already 15 MT. I find it highly unlikey that enemies aren't reaching that high, even on Normal Mode. He's not useless, but even Samto can help more than Michalis.

You don't really think I don't know this, do you?

Based on her ranking, it's obvious you don't.

Disagreed. She's ORKOing bandits now. That's quite useful. Maybe it isn't Mid-tier useful, but she's plenty useful enough to get some prologue utility points.

Her ORKOing Bandits is a lot less impressive in comparison to the rest of the team in Normal Mode. She doesn't get a lot of brownie points for having good offense in 4 Prologue Chapters.

It's already been addressed, Etzel and the other two mages will be in the same tier, I just don't know if it's a better move to move him up or them down.

Alright, what about Ymir being this high? It's basically the same argument as Michalis.

Only Sirius has growth rates and Arran doesn't, so while Sirius will keep doubling faster things, Arran hits a dead stop shortly after his Jeigan utility is over and done with. Arran isn't anything more than utility while he lasts, I see no reason he shouldn't be middle. Now, granted, this IS Normal Mode where he lasts a little longer than he's meant to, but I still want a decent argument as to why he should move up if you want him to.

Snipers in Chapter 15 don't even double base Paladin Arran. Hell, Swordmaster Arran at base doubles every non-Abel enemy in Chapter 15 and ORKOs Horsemen, Mages, Fighters, and Thieves and 2RKOs everything else. He is not suddenly completely obsoleted when you reach the midgame like FEDS Jeigan. Add this to everything else that he's done up to that point, and I can think of absolutely no reason as to why MICHALIS of all people is a tier higher than him.

why

Actually, I'm a bit torn on this. Malice can double pretty much anything once instant promoted, but Hero Dice's 16 AS can still double non-dragon enemies for quite a while, and he's much stronger. Hmm.

I'm seriously considering nulling everything you just said if I honestly need to explain to you why Samto is a shitty unit.

Hey, you know who is even worse than Samto? Midia. And Samson. And Frost. And the rest of the entire bottom tier. What's the reasoning behind having any of those units ahead of him? He's shitty at base? Big fucking deal, it's normal mode. He's not the king of the world, but he'll manage.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Ninji

[Don Draper]

I'll pull up a Ogma vs Frey vs Nabarl comparison:

Ogma (10/0): 30 HP, 10.8 Str, 9.65 Skl, 11.5 Spd, 6.8 Lck, 10.6 Def

Frey (9/0): 26.9 HP, 11.45 Str, 8.65 Skl, 10.65 Spd, 6.55 Lck, 10.3 Def

Nabarl (8/0): 25 HP, 11 Str, 9 Skl, 11 Spd, 7 Lck, 11 Def

Ridiculously similar. Of the three, Nabarl is probably edging out a victory simply because of his forced chapter utility (Ogma isn't required to do much in most efficient Chapter 4 strategies thanks to Yumina's rescue), so its probably looking like Nabarl>Ogma>Frey with the differences being incredibly subtle. Also worth noting that Nabarl/Ogma have C Swords and E Lances while Frey has C Lances and D Swords

Now, we'll look at base growths (we'll assume that each of their classes stay the same so i'll use base growths):

Growth Frey Ogma Nabarl

HP 50 50 50

Str 30 40 35

Skl 40 30 30

Spd 55 30 40

Lck 60 55 75

Def 25 15 15

They're still going to be eerily similar. Frey looks like he has the most potential with advantages in both speed and defense growths, with Nabarl and then Ogma close behind.

[General Spoon]

Yubello is missing.