Rolf VS Shinon

[RNG Princess]

I pick Astrid over both in both games ;) I like Rolf he's so cute but I like Astrid a lot more i can't stand Shinnon. However for this question I assume Shinnon would be a lot easier to train that Rolf, you could give Shinnon some stat boosts to have him keep up when he rejoins.

[Flashpoint_1230]

I'd probably be considered biased, too, but I pick Rolf. In FE9, even without BEXP, he's capped Str., Skl., and Spd. every time. His only low point is his relative lack of HP (Usually ends up somewhere between 32 and 40 at 20/20, which is considerably lower than anyone else, I think), but his high avoid makes up for that. And I have him as a Sniper by the time Shinon comes back. Also, I just really dislike Shinon's character in FE9, so...I even use Rolf in FE10, although there are more characters that have to share the exp. pool. I suppose that Shinon would make for a more efficient PT, but I've never had issues with leveling people up. Plus, Shinon has weird supports in FE9, I think. At least, they're not people I'd ever use.

That being said, Astrid definitely wins out in FE9 (Capping 4 stats+horse/canto/high move/direct combat ability when promoted is very good)

Basically...

FE9 Rolf: Training - 6.5/10, Final Stats - 8.5/10 ---> 7.5/10

FE9 Shinon: Training - 4/10, Final Stats - 8/10 -----> 6/10

FE10 Rolf: Training - 6/10, Final Stats - 10/10 -----> 8/10

FE10 Shinon: Training - 9/10, Final Stats - 9/10 --> 9/10

Final Scores - Rolf: 7.8/10 --- Shinon: 7.5/10

Edited October 20, 2010 by Flashpoint_1230

[Snowy_One]

From a tier perspective: Shinon is better. Rolf joins very underleveled and takes a lot of work in order to get him up to speed. Almost all of your team is outright better than him once he joins (the only ones who aren't are Mist and Rhys, who are healers) and he requires a forge to be even remotely useful. Other units need Bexp and give back more towards a chapter complete. His only redeeming factor is the fact that he attacks at 1-2 range. He only gets a bonus against transformed Laguz and his bonus won't be kicking in consistantly enough until late in the game against Daien's wyverns. Even if he could 1RKO, or even 1HKO, the amount of effort that you need to put into him to make him work is just too much.

Shinon, by comparison, is useful in the earlier chapters when he can at least serve as a damage sponge/bait. His attack can weaken units to let higher tiers kill, strip weaklings, or maybe critical and kill something of note. He's basically useless once he rejoins, but those earlier chapters help out.

From a non-tier perspective: Rolf. When coming from a non-tier perspective, you ignore favorism and turn counts for the most part. As such, needing a decent bit of work to get up and going is okay. Rolf, while initially weak, can grow to become overall an 'okay' unit. He won't excel, but he won't suck too badly either. Shinon has no real value once he leaves and takes too much work to get up once he rejoins. Being 'okay' > being weak.

Rolf (non-tier) > Shinon (non-tier) > Shinon (tier) > Rolf (tier)

[Life]

His only redeeming factor is the fact that he attacks at 1-2 range.

Ok, let's get serious.

Shinon is probably the better one. He's got fantastic use in the first couple of chapters, killing almost anything he attacks and tanking some shit too since the only other real tanks you have are Titania and Gatrie. I've never fielded him after rerecruiting him in Chapter 18 but I can't help but think that dumping 3 or so levels worth of BExp might begin to dig him out of a hole (he should be ??/2 when he leaves if you've been using him).

Rolf... is a pain. If he came a chapter early, I would have been able to give him some nice Exp by sniping Myrmidons on the left side but he arrives in Chapter 9 with 2 other units who are much better than him and use BExp better (Marcia and Mist). And that gives me a headache, to be honest. If you can get him to level 10 by Chapter 12, he might start getting some real use (field against Ravens in 12 and 13, snipe birds in 15) but most of that is coming out of BExp and there's a myriad of units who want a share of that Exp (Marcia, Mist, Soren, Zihark for a bit, Mia, Ilyana... list just goes on and on).

[Anouleth]

From a non-tier perspective: Rolf. When coming from a non-tier perspective, you ignore favorism and turn counts for the most part. As such, needing a decent bit of work to get up and going is okay. Rolf, while initially weak, can grow to become overall an 'okay' unit. He won't excel, but he won't suck too badly either. Shinon has no real value once he leaves and takes too much work to get up once he rejoins. Being 'okay' > being weak.

So Rolf is better than Shinon because while they both take work and favouritism to get to a decent level, you've chosen to ignore favouritism and turn counts when evaluating Rolf?

[Narga_Rocks]

So Rolf is better than Shinon because while they both take work and favouritism to get to a decent level, you've chosen to ignore favouritism and turn counts when evaluating Rolf?

Yes.

From an "easier to make Rolf able to kill stuff well on Player Phase" perspective, yes he's probably better. If that's all you want then why should turncounts matter? If Rolf is easier to make better, and that's all you want, then from a non-tier perspective he's better.

[Anouleth]

Yes.

From an "easier to make Rolf able to kill stuff well on Player Phase" perspective, yes he's probably better. If that's all you want then why should turncounts matter? If Rolf is easier to make better, and that's all you want, then from a non-tier perspective he's better.

My point was that he said 'ignoring favouritism and turn counts'. If we ignore favouritism, then the fact that Shinon takes a lot of work to get up to par is not a problem, surely?

[Narga_Rocks]

My point was that he said 'ignoring favouritism and turn counts'. If we ignore favouritism, then the fact that Shinon takes a lot of work to get up to par is not a problem, surely?

I thought about that, too, but then I just decided he didn't mean it that way. Not sure what he thinks he meant, but I just went with "ignoring the fact they take more work than is worth doing", rather than "ignoring any amount of work at all". Rolf taking less work would still be important, then.

[StinDuh]

Rolf is better because you have the chance to train him to become a good(or at least respectable) Archer/Sniper. His growths aren't superb, but Shinon is way too much of a pre-promote to be any good. Yeah his growths are pretty damn amazing, but when you get to Chapter 18, most of your units will already be second tier and be better than Shinon anyway, so even if you wanted to use him it would take too much work to make him good while you could just be owning with other characters who are better than Shinon. Also, in defense of Rolf, Rolf's average stats as a Level 1 Sniper are much higher than Shinon's Base Stats as a Level 1 Sniper. And then if you look at their average stats at a level 20 Sniper, theyre actually about the same:

Rolf:

 
HP 	Str 	Mag 	Skl 	Spd 	Lck 	Def 	Res
43.8 	23.2 	9.6 	27.1 	27 	19.2 	19.4 	13.5

Shinon:

HP 	Str 	Mag 	Skl 	Spd 	Lck 	Def 	Res
46.25 	21.35 	9.8 	28.3 	25.35 	15.65 	18.5 	13.6

In fact, I would even say that Rolf's averages are better, since his strength, speed, and defense stats are all higher than Shinon's. But since they are about the same, Rolf would in turn be better, since you have more time to train him. But if your Rolf is lower than a Level 15 or so Archer by Chapter 18, start using Shinon. Essentially, Rolf is the better choice, unless you never use Rolf, which would be dumb anyway since he IS the better choice.

Now that I've answered the initial question, I'll go into talking about Astrid.

Astrid is about as good as Rolf, bow-user wise, but a better unit overall. Her growths are slightly better than Rolf's, and her base stats are about the same as Rolf's. And once you look at her Level 20 Average Stats.....

Astrid:

HP 	Str 	Mag 	Skl 	Spd 	Lck 	Def 	Res
42.1 	23.2 	11.6 	26 	27 	18.2 	19.4 	15.5

Rolf:

 
HP 	Str 	Mag 	Skl 	Spd 	Lck 	Def 	Res
43.8 	23.2 	9.6 	27.1 	27 	19.2 	19.4 	13.5

Shinon:

HP 	Str 	Mag 	Skl 	Spd 	Lck 	Def 	Res
46.25 	21.35 	9.8 	28.3 	25.35 	15.65 	18.5 	13.6

You'll see they're also about the same as Rolf's. Astrid also comes in even later than Rolf. But then Astrid promotes and gets the choice of another weapon. Therefor, Astrid becomes a better unit due to diversity. So here is my final conclusion:

Sniper:

Rolf > Shinon

Bow User:

Astrid = Rolf > Shinon

Overall Unit:

Astrid > Rolf > Shinon

Edited November 2, 2010 by StinDuh

[Narga_Rocks]

In fact, I would even say that Rolf's averages are better, since his strength, speed, and defense stats are all higher than Shinon's. But since they are about the same, Rolf would in turn be better, since you have more time to train him. But if your Rolf is lower than a Level 15 or so Archer by Chapter 18, start using Shinon. Essentially, Rolf is the better choice, unless you never use Rolf, which would be dumb anyway since he IS the better choice.

The best choice is to use neither.

I'll agree, though, that if you really like snipers and just want one that can kill things, Rolf is the better choice to train simply because it is probably easier to do.

And Astrid is >>>> Rolf. Maybe I need more. Even just as a bow user, she has more move and Paragon. If we consider Hand Axes and stuff after promotion it's no longer about Bows, but that just cements her lead for "Overall Unit".

Edited November 2, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Galenforcer]

I don't really think characters should be judged for their 20/20 stats, because realistically, I don't think you'll max them out on an efficient run(maybe some people, like Ike). Maxing them out is a waste of time, since it would require huge amounts of favorism and not letting the rest of you party get much kills. Besides, most of these games don't even need maxed out stats to pwn ass in the later chapters(except RD, 4-E)

Shinon is way too much of a pre-promote to be any good.

Being a pre-promote doesn't automatically make you bad. Lots of people find good use for them, whether it's chipping, utility, filler unit or used to the end. Hell, I could say Shinon's better than Rolf, to the fact his early-game helps more than babying Rolf after he leaves.

[Florete]

And Astrid is >>>> Rolf. Maybe I need more.

Let's say one '>' would mean they're in the same tier with the winner (obviously) on top. Another would signify a full tier gap and two more for each extra tier gap. Right now Astrid's in the middle of High while Rolf is 4 tiers down in the middle of Low. This leads to 8 '>'s, or Astrid >>>>>>>> Rolf. So you only had half.

[Narga_Rocks]

Let's say one '>' would mean they're in the same tier with the winner (obviously) on top. Another would signify a full tier gap and two more for each extra tier gap. Right now Astrid's in the middle of High while Rolf is 4 tiers down in the middle of Low. This leads to 8 '>'s, or Astrid >>>>>>>> Rolf. So you only had half.

Oh, darn it. I undervalued Astrid. :(

Thanks for the correction. I'll have to remember that. ;)