No Guard is Broken

[Flying Shogi]

Because I was fighting a Machoke in SS and I used Fly but his Cross Chop hit me.

I never knew that No Guard goes through moves like Dig/Dive/Fly and sometimes Protect/Detect until I've done a recent Bublapedia search.

Although, it'd be more broken if it worked for OHKO moves.

Does anyone know this already?

[Chalis]

It's not that broken when the only pokemon with it are easy enough to knock out.

EDIT:

Lapras used Sheer Cold!

Edited September 5, 2010 by Chalis

[Blademaster!]

Oh! No Guard is broken? Hmm... Wait! My No guard users can't dodge! Just put them to sleep! Or take advantage of your low accuracy moves!

[Flying Shogi]

It's not that broken when the only pokemon with it are easy enough to knock out.

Except the final form of Poke that has that ability is bulky.

Oh! No Guard is broken? Hmm... Wait! My No guard users can't dodge! Just put them to sleep! Or take advantage of your low accuracy moves!

Or you can just switch.

[Solanum Tuberosum]

UberLugh, Machamp has only 80 base defense, 85 base sp. defense, and 90 base hp. Not to mention only 55 base speed. A speedy choice specs/choice band attacker could easily take it out in one hit with Brave Bird or Sky Attack. Definitely 2 hits of any special 90 base+ damage attack provided choice specs. And, as stated before, Hypnosis/sleep powder completely shuts you down.

[Flying Shogi]

UberLugh, Machamp has only 80 base defense, 85 base sp. defense, and 90 base hp. Not to mention only 55 base speed. A speedy choice specs/choice band attacker could easily take it out in one hit with Brave Bird or Sky Attack. Definitely 2 hits of any special 90 base+ damage attack provided choice specs. And, as stated before, Hypnosis/sleep powder completely shuts you down.

I agree that a Choice Specs/Banded 90+ base move easily takes it out but, being able to hit through Protect is kinda broken since protect stalling/scouting is very common these days. As for the sleep regard, most Machamps carry Lum Berry so it saves it once. However, after that, you can use it as a sleep fodder which is not as bad since Machamps, as you say, can be taken out by two 90 base+ moves. However, It's not the always the case that Machamp will face a choiced Poke.

Edited September 6, 2010 by UberLughFTW

[Kriemhild]

Because I was fighting a Machoke in SS and I used Fly but his Cross Chop hit me.

I lol'd when I read this. I never knew that it worked on those either.

I never knew that No Guard goes through moves like Dig/Dive/Fly and sometimes Protect/Detect until I've done a recent Bublapedia search.

Protect/Detect was a DPP glitch though so in HGSS, I think Protect/Detect nullifies all attacks all the time.

Although, it'd be more broken if it worked for OHKO moves.

Actually, I think it DOES work for OHKO moves, because I read some stuff in Smogon that suggested that. The article was referring to OHKO moves used against Protect/Detect.

In any case, the fact that No Guard applies to OHKO moves is actually worse for Machamp because he doesn't learn any of those, and is now incapable of evading them.

Does anyone know this already?

Not me.

Oh! No Guard is broken? Hmm... Wait! My No guard users can't dodge! Just put them to sleep! Or take advantage of your low accuracy moves!

But would I really put low accuracy moves in my team JUST for Machamp? Because they would clearly be too unreliable against anyone else and Pokemon RNG hates me almost as much as FE5's one does.

Or you can just switch.

and get your switch-in confused. Unless it's Dusknoir.

[Flying Shogi]

I lol'd when I read this. I never knew that it worked on those either.

I was pretty surprised myself.

Actually, I think it DOES work for OHKO moves, because I read some stuff in Smogon that suggested that. The article was referring to OHKO moves used against Protect/Detect.

This sounds pretty interesting. I might try it out.

[AceNoctali]

This sounds pretty interesting. I might try it out.

No Guard DOES work with OHKO moves.

: in the chain the battler uses, there's a Mimic Machamp (Mimic being a 3rd Gen Move Tutor).

[Flying Shogi]

No Guard DOES work with OHKO moves.

: in the chain the battler uses, there's a Mimic Machamp (Mimic being a 3rd Gen Move Tutor).

You've saved me quite a bit of time. Thanks.

[Trueblade]

It's still very broken. I never knew it would go through Dig and Fly. Now I get to abuse it. Hehe *Evil Face*

[Zanarkin]

with 55 speed? good luck ;) besides, who uses fly and dig competitive?

[Flying Shogi]

with 55 speed? good luck ;) besides, who uses fly and dig competitive?

There's plenty of people using Machamps on Wifi despite its Speed. If it was the case, then it wouldn't be ranked #2 on the usage list of OUs on Shoddy.

Besides, not everyone likes to OU spam and use the "standard" movesets.

[Trueblade]

with 55 speed? good luck ;) besides, who uses fly and dig competitive?

I use a Machamp. And some people DO use Fly and Dig. I either Me First them with my Mewtwo on the second turn, right before they can attack, or just be horrible and use Machamp on them.

[Zanarkin]

The problem with dig is that it = a x2 earthquake. So its a self destruct but without half defense (Does that apply for self-destruct too?) Fly, well fly i don't think its much of a problem... Unless thunder(bolt?) still passes through like in DX. And what i meant with its speed is that you can't really get to abuse him much since a good attacker will have him down in 1-2 hits or so.

Edited September 9, 2010 by SlayerX

[eclipse]

When a Pokemon is Flying, Thunder turns into Swift. . .but more painful.

No Guard is a problem if you don't see it coming.

[Kriemhild]

There's plenty of people using Machamps on Wifi despite its Speed. If it was the case, then it wouldn't be ranked #2 on the usage list of OUs on Shoddy.

Besides, not everyone likes to OU spam and use the "standard" movesets.

Wait, when was Machamp #2? I think the furthest it went in the last few months was #13.

The problem with dig is that it = a x2 earthquake. So its a self destruct but without half defense (Does that apply for self-destruct too?) Fly, well fly i don't think its much of a problem... Unless thunder(bolt?) still passes through like in DX. And what i meant with its speed is that you can't really get to abuse him much since a good attacker will have him down in 1-2 hits or so.

The main problem is that it takes two turns. With attacks that do 60 or 70 damage. There are always better alternatives. Why use Dig when there's Earthquake? When can Dive be more useful than Surf? And that wasted turn gives the enemy a free switch-in or a free set-up move. Look, the enemy is using Fly! Now let me bring my Skarmory out so I get some free Spikes while the enemy runs away.

This is assuming you're talking competitively. In-game, it's an entirely different matter.

No Guard is a problem if you don't see it coming.

If you're team isn't prepared for Machamp, it's not gonna be very successful.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Proto

[Flying Shogi]

Wait, when was Machamp #2? I think the furthest it went in the last few months was #13.

It was quite some time ago. It was on the homepage. Or at least I thought since it was months ago.

[eclipse]

If you're team isn't prepared for Machamp, it's not gonna be very successful.

There's a lot of things to prepare for, I've only got six slots, and I'm not about to throw something like Hypnosis or Sing on something just for Machamp.

(one of my favorite Pokemon learns Sing, but I probably won't put it on a truly competitive team)

[Kriemhild]

There's a lot of things to prepare for, I've only got six slots, and I'm not about to throw something like Hypnosis or Sing on something just for Machamp.

(one of my favorite Pokemon learns Sing, but I probably won't put it on a truly competitive team)

I mean, bring a Fighting resistor or at least, someone with a Lum Berry to avoid the DynamicPunch confusion. Surely you can have one Pokemon with that. Ghost types work even better. Their purpose may not be to counter Machamp but at least they can make sure it's not an inta-loss every single time Machamp shows up.

[eclipse]

I mean, bring a Fighting resistor or at least, someone with a Lum Berry to avoid the DynamicPunch confusion. Surely you can have one Pokemon with that. Ghost types work even better. Their purpose may not be to counter Machamp but at least they can make sure it's not an inta-loss every single time Machamp shows up.

*looks at Gengar*

Pros: Nullifies Machamp's biggest threats

Cons: *eats a Rock Slide critical, or something equally silly. . .because I'm lucky like that*

[dondon151]

Having an option to completely resist DynamicPunch is a far better position than having no options to sponge a DynamicPunch.

[Flying Shogi]

(one of my favorite Pokemon learns Sing, but I probably won't put it on a truly competitive team)

Is it Altaria?

[eclipse]

Is it Altaria?

You mean the neat freak bird who can't figure out what type it is and as an enemy, always hits with Sing at the most inopportune times?

Naturally. Last I checked, it was UU. It might in that weird limbo between UU and BL.

[Flying Shogi]

You mean the neat freak bird who can't figure out what type it is and as an enemy, always hits with Sing at the most inopportune times?

Naturally. Last I checked, it was UU. It might in that weird limbo between UU and BL.

I'm not sure I get your refrence.

It's still UU. It has pretty good base stats. And a pretty nifty move pool as well.