Jugdral 978: A Holy War/Thracia 776 Successor RP

[Astelaine]

[Oct 25th: The FE4 RP is on hold for now, postponed due to RL concerns. Thank you all for your responses and interest, I'll update this thread again when it's ready to go.]

Hello everyone! (Sweet god, I hope I didn't post this in the wrong forum section.)

For some time now, I've been toying with the idea of starting a roleplay set in Jugdral, the continent that served as the setting for Genealogy of the Holy War and Thracia 776. Holy War is my favorite game in the Fire Emblem series. However, I realize these two titles are older and never enjoyed an official English language release, and perhaps not many Fire Emblem fans have played one or both of them. Therefore, before I invest too much time in designing or drafting rules for something no one will play, I'd like to gauge interest in this project. It will be set 200 years or so after the events of Holy War's second generation, with a new wave of trouble stirring the continent. Players will take up the roles of the nobility and descendants of the holy crusaders, just like in the game. Emphasis will be on character development and interaction rather than wargaming (though I imagine combat will still happen, I mean, it's Fire Emblem.) Drama, political intrigue, romance, and epicness are encouraged.

Who'd be interested in playing a game like this? If people seem to dig it, I'll update this post with actual rules and a signup sheet and all that jazz. Lemme know, or toss me questions. :)

Edited October 25, 2010 by Astelaine

[Kanami]

Several questions that I think you'll be asked sooner or later

1: Importance of prior knowledge

Judging from your post knowledge of Jugdral is no essential for players, however will there be any benefits or advantages of having played Genealogy or Thracia?

2: Canon?

Will there be any characters in the game that reappear in the RP? 200 years so I assume not, but will there be constant references between the RP and the games?

3: How carefully have you thought this over.

Is this one of those "I had an idea and want to RP it" or has the RP been planned out carefully? Pretty much what I'm asking is plot-wise on a scale of 1~10 how much have you planned. (Since I'm letting people do whatever they want, seldom ends well)

4: This is a serious RP right?

Example of a non-serious RP. http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=21568 The Quest for Nothing.

5: How fast will things progress?

Or rather how fast do you want it to progress? A forum page a day? 5 pages a day? Not a question I usually ask but looking back at LordofAzureFlames a few months ago, it's one I can't help but ask :P

~~~~

If this idea does go through, make this your Sign-up thread I suppose. If you're just testing the waters, it probably should have gone in the "Chat" subforum

Edited September 10, 2010 by Kanami

[lunarAegis]

3. Seems unnecessary to me. Have an entire contrived plot before the RP even begins seems superfluous. The plot should be formed by the events that the characters make happen, don't you think?

[Snowy_One]

While I might be interested in this, a lot will depend on presentation.

[rn7]

i hope flying space cars have been developed in those 200 years

[lunarAegis]

Sci-fire emblem would kick all of the ass.

[Purg]

'Scalled Super Robot Wars, lA.

Also, pass.

[rn7]

I'm just saying, be aware that 200 years is a pretty big deal. Hopefully you don't waive off technological advancement with some excuse like the world has been in constant warfare.

[mr_e_s]

I'm not unsold on it. I'd need to hear more first.

[Snowy_One]

I doubt technology will advance much. At least, not like you seem to think. After all, why invent steamboats when a mage can make any needed gust? Or a cannon when you have Bolgannon? Or medicine when a staff can heal any wounds with ease and little to no risk of infection?

[Chalis]

Mention the words 'sky pirates' or 'airships' and I'm 100% sold.

[Phoenix]

Mention the words 'sky pirates' or 'airships' and I'm 100% sold.

Noted.

[Purg]

A world where technology and science are left to stagnate while only people born with magical talent hold tons of power as a result seems like a dumb world to me.

Just sayin'.

[Script]

I doubt technology will advance much. At least, not like you seem to think. After all, why invent steamboats when a mage can make any needed gust? Or a cannon when you have Bolgannon? Or medicine when a staff can heal any wounds with ease and little to no risk of infection?

If anything, having access to such powerful resources would set scentific advancement on a far faster pace since those things are extremely cheap and powerful energy sources.

[lunarAegis]

If anything, having access to such powerful resources would set scentific advancement on a far faster pace since those things are extremely cheap and powerful energy sources.

This.

[mr_e_s]

Yeah Snopwy, no need to be so elitist. Not everyone can make fireballs out of nothing, and in an FE setting, at least, those people don't seem worlds more useful then your average swordsman anyways. Magic isn't an alternative to science, necessarily.

[Psych]

A better idea, no offense, would probably be only like 50 years after. Something involving Celice's reign? Or the Dark Select.

[Snowy_One]

I'm not saying SCIENCE won't advance. I'm saying TECHNOLOGY won't advance. At least, not by much. Magic allows for the base manipulation of reality and for the instantaneous healing of most wounds and aliments. Put yourselves in the shoes of a person in that world. Would you go to the local church, whom even if they don't always cure you has very real healing power? Or to a 'doctor' who is likely to chop off a limb as well as give you an infection with a relatively minor chance to heal? Why bother building steam engines (at least steam engines as we know them) when we can have magic perform a lot of the things it would do anyways (maybe not in a FE verse, at least not without some technology of it's own). When one of the characters asked the HM about technology, she pointed out 'why bother? Science can do most of these things with magic with far less work' (more or less). The point I'm trying to say is, FE is a world with lots of magic. While I'm sure there are advancements that have happened in 200 years, they aren't likely to be what you think they are.

Edit: Considering the magic weapons like the SS, I think in the FEverse everyone can use magic; just without the talent you REALLY suck at it. Either way, it is up to the GM to decide the tech level.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Snowy_One

[AstraLunaSol]

A better idea, no offense, would probably be only like 50 years after. Something involving Celice's reign? Or the Dark Select.

Yeah, that way we could link it to the 2nd gen better, as 200 years is like.....how many Gens? @_@

Depending on where it goes, might join, first RP but eh.

[Psych]

......like.....12?

So no one would be around. >_>

Ever.

[mr_e_s]

Now you're pointing out things your own characters say as though they were irrefutable logic. I've never seen magic cure a disease, so medicine has very real reasons to press on. I've never seen any kind of advanced movement apart from like the three people in any FE verse who know how to teleport places. The need for travel is ever present, everything else follows, if you need, absolutely need to improve somewhere, it's not going to be the only place anything ever gets done. Just because magic can make a very specific set of things simpler, is no reason to disregard the advancement of technology. If you're RPing in a world where tech doesn't get taken care of because a small subset of the population can read a book to throw a fireball, then it's a pretty dumb world.

Sorry for this taking place in your topic, Astelaine.

[lunarAegis]

Snowy, you're being a bit of an elitist ignoramus, imo. Ultimately, none of us can be sure how technology would progress, plus you're taking a very narrow viewpoint on human behaviour. If you think about it, they could also logically just be seeking to make what they have more widespread, and not everyone has the capacity to be a mage or priest. Technology is the non-mystical version of magic, thus those without magic would go to technology. Plus there're still practical inventions like the printing press, which leads to further industrialization and literacy and such. There are other reasons to advance technology than what is combat practical, y'know? Presumably after the events of the game they wouldn't go into a dark age, so there's no reason science and technology wouldn't advance.

tl;dr, stfu snowy.

[Script]

I'm not saying SCIENCE won't advance. I'm saying TECHNOLOGY won't advance. At least, not by much. Magic allows for the base manipulation of reality and for the instantaneous healing of most wounds and aliments. Put yourselves in the shoes of a person in that world. Would you go to the local church, whom even if they don't always cure you has very real healing power? Or to a 'doctor' who is likely to chop off a limb as well as give you an infection with a relatively minor chance to heal? Why bother building steam engines (at least steam engines as we know them) when we can have magic perform a lot of the things it would do anyways (maybe not in a FE verse, at least not without some technology of it's own). When one of the characters asked the HM about technology, she pointed out 'why bother? Science can do most of these things with magic with far less work' (more or less). The point I'm trying to say is, FE is a world with lots of magic. While I'm sure there are advancements that have happened in 200 years, they aren't likely to be what you think they are.

Because not everybody can use magic. With access to those forces, people will use them to further their own understanding of how they work and apply them to new innovations to close the gap between magic and technology. There's also the problem of becoming proficient enough in magic. The amount of time it takes to train such things will vary from setting to setting of course, but once technology catches up to the effects of magic it can create a faster pool of people to draw from.

[Purg]

The point I'm trying to make, is that, yes, magic is a great thing. For mages. For everyone else, the normal people, who can't use even a tiny amount of it, it means that, if they want to get healed, they have to go to a mage. They want to wage war? Well, they're stuck using archaic forms of weaponry, unless they get mages. It wouldn't take long for a magiocracy to be set up, putting all power into the hands of people born with magical talent, putting everyone else in a lower serving class. When you consider how the physical/magic split is in a typical Fire Emblem game (FE7 for this example), it's 49 physical characters, 16 magical, off the list on other parts of this site (which includes some enemy and NPC characters). When the chances of being born with magical talent are about 1 in 4 in that scenario, it seems kinda off that those 49 people would just let mages rule over their lives, without trying to find a way around it.

[Astelaine]

Several questions that I think you'll be asked sooner or later

1: Importance of prior knowledge

Judging from your post knowledge of Jugdral is no essential for players, however will there be any benefits or advantages of having played Genealogy or Thracia?

2: Canon?

Will there be any characters in the game that reappear in the RP? 200 years so I assume not, but will there be constant references between the RP and the games?

3: How carefully have you thought this over.

Is this one of those "I had an idea and want to RP it" or has the RP been planned out carefully? Pretty much what I'm asking is plot-wise on a scale of 1~10 how much have you planned. (Since I'm letting people do whatever they want, seldom ends well)

4: This is a serious RP right?

Example of a non-serious RP. http://serenesforest...showtopic=21568 The Quest for Nothing.

5: How fast will things progress?

Or rather how fast do you want it to progress? A forum page a day? 5 pages a day? Not a question I usually ask but looking back at LordofAzureFlames a few months ago, it's one I can't help but ask :P

~~~~

If this idea does go through, make this your Sign-up thread I suppose. If you're just testing the waters, it probably should have gone in the "Chat" subforum

Thanks for those great questions, Kanami! Let's dig in on answering them...

1. Importance of prior knowledge

While I would certainly love to run this for a bunch of people who already know the games well, it seems that requiring such might greatly limit the pool of people willing to play. While I'm not aiming for LoAF's large cast of characters, I would like this to be accessible enough for me to get about 5 or 6 players, and I'm not sure how many people on SF are both (1) Holy War/Thracia junkies and (2) interested in joining a roleplay. Hence this post XD Hopefully, the response here will help me tailor the game to the interested parties, so if you're posting here, please tell me how much you know about the game.

I think that at least basic knowledge of Holy War/Thracia will be required. As in, "What is the basic story? Who were the most important main characters? What's holy blood?" However, it's easy enough to help players less experienced with the game by making a chart detailing which countries/castles/noble houses/holy bloods their characters may start with, or fill in background info in the signup sheet or in my own story posts. I do intend to incorporate story lore on my part, and certainly the RP will be enriched by how much knowledge the players bring to the table. However, while I love the lore, the roleplay isn't intended to be about geeky devotion to detail (believe me, I use this phrase fondly), but rather to use elements of the game world to make a set-up for something positively epic. 200 years have passed, that's license enough to gloss over some of the finer details that aren't critical to roleplaying. However, knowing the game world and plot will help you use them to create relationships with other player characters (long family feuds, rivalries, obligations of service or life debt, etc) that come out of a deeply-entrenched history.

In short: if you don't know much about the games, don't sweat it. I'll help you out. But if you do - great. Infuse that into your character for maximum awesome.

2. Canon

I can't think of any characters from the games that would appear in the roleplay as NPCs. As for references, there will be plenty, and some will be important. For example, the current King of Grandbell is descended from Sigurd and Celice, and you can sure bet he's going to be tapping into their image, and that of Saint Baldo, to legitimize his position as ruler. I don't ever want references to overshadow the players and their own motivations and goals, but rather to inform them, to create a sense of history and legacy. Again, the point is to use game detail to enrich the story, to steep the players in an atmosphere, rather than alienate anyone who'd want to play.

Players can be descended from the characters in the games. The level of detail they take it to is up to them. It can be "Hey, I have Hezul blood and I rule this castle because that's how things played out, two hundred years ago," all the way down to "My predecessor was King Eltosian of Nodion, and I am going to wreak vengeance on your house for your family's ancient crimes against him. I'll never permit anyone to denigrate House Nodion again!" (I suppose one should beware of spoilers, seeing as you never know what other players will bring up, haha.)

As for the canon of the Holy War/Thracia story itself, I want to be true to it, and will use it as a basis. However, I may well decide that things have gone down a certain way in the past 200 years. This won't be crazy stuff like flying cars (lol) but rather things like "oh, said house is the ruling family of this country now." Things that make logical sense.

Tl;dr: Make no mistake, I want this roleplay to feel like the games. References will provide the history and atmosphere of the story, and help establish the theme. But the players and their goals are the prime concern.

3. How carefully I have thought this over

I rather agree with LunarAegis. The aim of this roleplay isn't to railroad players down a plotline I've determined from the beginning. Their goals and desires will shape the course that events take. I definitely see what you mean, though, about doing some planning and not just flying by the seat of my pants. That certainly isn't my intent. After I post signups and see what characters people have made, where they'd like to take the character, or some preliminary goals their characters have, I will develop, more specifically, where things will go. I already have some ideas, and know some happenings among the NPCs that will shape the story and the characters' world. I'm not doing this blind. The players will determine where they want to go, and together we'll cut the road. (To use a horrifically cheesey metaphor. >>)

4. This is a serious RP, right?

Ahaha, yes. The Quest for Nothing is fabulous, but I'm going to keep the tone in line with that of the two games that have inspired all this.

5. How fast will things progress?

Ohh, good question. I think this one will be more slow. I want people to put thought into their posts, and write longer entries rather than shorter ones. I don't want to obligate people to write a novel, but anything less than a solid paragraph or two is not going to cut it, and I'd prefer more. I'd like to aim for players to post once or twice a week, ideally. Not everyone has the luxury of a school schedule. Of course, it will obviously vary by how much time people have and how interested they are. The posts in Shu's Quest are long (and awesome), I'll go take a look at how often people post in that and use it as a guide.

Also, wow, interesting discussions about technology coming up as I was writing all this. I agree that you'd get technological advancement after two centuries.The world certainly wouldn't be in stasis. Though obviously we wouldn't be jumping from, say, medieval technology right to an industrial revolution in that time. Think more the type of advancements you'd get from 1000 AD to 1200 AD, with some differences because of the obvious effect of magic, and Jugdral's unique resource situation, on the process. Unfortunately, the games don't give us too much information on that, IIRC. I also don't really want this game to be steampunk, or to be about technology, or speculating on the future in a magical society. That's all really interesting (I'd play a game like that, for reelz,) but I don't want to break the Fire Emblem feel. If those two things could be seamlessly integrated, however, I wouldn't mind. And stuff like carriages, better plows, a flight relay system using pegasi, and printing presses don't seem out of bounds.

Gonna stew on this one a little more.

Edit: About my choice of 200 years. I picked it because it's soon enough after the events of the game that the events and history are still important, but it's not so close that the game characters would overshadow the players' new characters. It's also far enough away that people who don't know as much about the games could participate, without sweating about knowing some very spoilery piece of game info. I can change my choice if no one is interested in the time I have set, but keep in mind that the year the game is set in should afford freedom, and the primacy of the player characters, above all.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Astelaine