[FE6] HM Draft Tournament

[Radiant Dragon]

Yeah clearly. It's just that I see that the person's previous experiences with the game (which aren't involved with the tourney) as the football team watching hours of video of their competitor.

I guess it sucks for me that this is the first time I'm playing this game's Hard Mode, huh? Although I suppose I could watch hours of video of efficient playthroughs... Anyway, update (finally):

Chapter 5 (11+4/56: Thany penalty)

I despise taking penalties, but it's in the name of efficiency.

Dieck goes north-east to distract the enemies on that side and prevent them from reaching my undrafted units. Thany rescues Marcus(+4 turns) and flies toward the fort. Roy, Rutger and Ellen follow. Ellen uses the Angelic Robe.

Once Dieck reaches the fort, he stays there for the rest of the chapter, dodging bows and Hand Axes. Marcus kills the enemies around the fort with a Javelin until it breaks, then goes to whittle down Dory. Thany makes her way back over the gate to rescue Roy. She drops him on the fort as well to relive Hand Axe pressure on Marcus. Once Dory falls, Roy seizes.

Chapter 6 (7/63)

"Traps" is NOT the worst name for a chapter ever (it's close, though). PoR's "Solo" holds that title. Seriously, what the hell is that supposed to mean?

Marcus charges the middle with my Hand Axe, everyone else (consisting of Roy, Dieck, Rutger, Ellen, my lockpickChad, Mr.baitMerlinus, and two undrafted scrubs) goes up the left. Chad unlocks Sue's cell (I'm glad that I don't have to take a penalty this time) and Roy recruits her. Sue rescues him and carries him to the throne. Rutger gets rid of one of Wagner's knights with the Armorslayer so both Marcus and Dieck can hack at him (I hate this game's dodge happy bosses…). Ellen keeps Dieck healed from Wagner's attacks as Sue draws the fire of the knight Rutger didn't slaughter. Thanks to a lucky Killing Edge critical, Roy is able to seize in a reasonable amount of time.

Screw Cath, she's not worth the turns needed to recruit her. Also, when do you guys think it would be a good time for me to promote Dieck? Since I get a Hero Crest next chapter and all...

Unit Stats:

Name    Level  HP Pow Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Roy 	07/--  22 07  10  09  08  08  02
Marcus  --/05  33 11  15  14  11  09  10  
Ellen   05/--  25 03  06  08  11  00  09
Dieck   11/--  31 11  15  15  08  07  01
Rutger  06/--  27 08  15  15  04  06  01
Sue 	01/--  18 05  07  08  04  05  00

Edited September 29, 2010 by Radiant Dragon

[Raven]

I guess it sucks for me that this is the first time I'm playing this game's Hard Mode, huh? Although I suppose I could watch hours of video of efficient playthroughs... Anyway, update (finally):

It will be hard, but of course if you aren't aware of it already there's www.fireemblemwod.net. Just use Google Translate or something and you're golden.

[Radiant Dragon]

It will be hard, but of course if you aren't aware of it already there's www.fireemblemwod.net. Just use Google Translate or something and you're golden.

That's the one that's in Spanish, right? I've been to that site a couple times, it is pretty useful. But I read it in Spanish because Google Translate sucks.

And what about 20x Sacae?

[Raven]

That's the one that's in Spanish, right? I've been to that site a couple times, it is pretty useful. But I read it in Spanish because Google Translate sucks.

And what about 20x Sacae?

Oh, that one. Well... maybe there can be some sort of addition to the turncount depending on which one a player gets through. So for example, a player who completes it with the first gate they try will get +10 on turncount. 2nd = +8 turns. 3rd = +6 turns. 4th = +4 turns. 5th = +2 turns. 6th = +0 turns. Thoughts on that?

[Narga_Rocks]

Oh, that one. Well... maybe there can be some sort of addition to the turncount depending on which one a player gets through. So for example, a player who completes it with the first gate they try will get +10 on turncount. 2nd = +8 turns. 3rd = +6 turns. 4th = +4 turns. 5th = +2 turns. 6th = +0 turns. Thoughts on that?

Compare to the expected speed of 20x in Ilia. Actually, compare 17 to 20x Ilia to 17 to 20x Sacae and then figure out the penalties for 20x. I'm not sure if a minimum 11 turns for 1 gate is reasonable given how quickly you might be able to complete Ilia.

[Silvercrow]

imo the only fair ways to do 20x is either to have neither of them count, or have there be a divisor (not an added number) to 20x Sacae.

[Narga_Rocks]

imo the only fair ways to do 20x is either to have neither of them count, or have there be a divisor (not an added number) to 20x Sacae.

Why do you need a divisor? If you get lucky or if you cheat you can do it in 1 turn if you have warp users and the dancer/bard. Even without that, 2 turns should still be doable if you force it to give you the close one as the real throne. Or if you happen to get lucky and the close one is the real throne.

The idea is to make your turn count more based off skill than it is off luck, since that is the point of this tournament, right? Skill.

Now, if you have neither of them count then what is to stop people from routing or even boss abusing (and isn't there an arena in 20x Ilia)? Though I suppose your level will be pretty high for the main people as it is and maybe that abuse wouldn't change much.

[Silvercrow]

I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure 20x Ilia is a labyrinth with breakable walls. The boss is a Paladin with some sort of ranged weapon, I think? It's no more abusable than 20x Sacae would be.

Will share further thoughts on the divisor later if you'd like, when I'm no posting from my phone.

[Raven]

Compare to the expected speed of 20x in Ilia. Actually, compare 17 to 20x Ilia to 17 to 20x Sacae and then figure out the penalties for 20x. I'm not sure if a minimum 11 turns for 1 gate is reasonable given how quickly you might be able to complete Ilia.

True. Maybe lowering the penalties would seem more fair? How do other FE6 tourneys go about this chapter?

[dondon151]

Best options are:

1. Ignore it completely (but set a ceiling on turncount)

2. Force the player in 20xS to seize 2 false gates before seizing the real one (assuming that the real gate is fixed at the start of the chapter).

[Radiant Dragon]

I would prefer to not make either count against turns, and set a turn limit/remember the honor system. I don't believe either has reinforcements, so a turn limit may not even be necessary.

I don't think a divisor would be the best method because it might put people who go to the Ilia route at an advantage or disadvantage, depending on how fast 20x Ilia can be completed.

[Raven]

Another possible option is to simply take it on the chin. Do the chapter as normal, accept however long it takes. But maybe restart the chapter if at least the third gate tried is not the real one, just for pity's sake.

[dondon151]

The problem isn't just "what if it takes too long," it's also "what if it takes 1 turn." 20xI won't take 1 turn unless you have 2 warpers (and even then you'd probably need a large mag stat).

[Raven]

The problem isn't just "what if it takes too long," it's also "what if it takes 1 turn." 20xI won't take 1 turn unless you have 2 warpers (and even then you'd probably need a large mag stat).

I guess. The easiest thing to do would be to assume everyone will follow the honour system, complete it as fast as they would normally, an not have the chapter's turncounts add up to the total.

[Balcerzak]

:

Turns: 9

Non-initial run compensation: 2

Total Turns: 41

Total non-initial run compensation: 4

Comments: I knew I could do better than my

. Rescue-dropped Thany for some additional move so she can get Marcus on the fort a turn early. Transfered over Lance to distract the mercs and let Marcus reach the boss. Marcus had some pretty nice luck with the RNs facing said boss too. Roy also gets dropped across. Chad manlied his way through this chapter, tanking the entire eastern side, and then brute forcing his way to the Gant Lance village as well. Roy and Lance got their C support, and Thany donned an Angelic Robe. Chad's levels were significantly worse this go around, making him quite a bit slower, and weaker, but c'est la vie.

Stats:

Roy:        6.28 21  8  8 10  9  7  4  C Lance
Marcus:     4.57 34 10 14 14 10 10  9
Lance:      6.53 24  8  8 11  5  8  1  C Roy
Merlinus:   1.01 15 BASE
Thany:      5.40 24  6  8 15  9  8  7
Chad:       7.29 22  7  4 14  8  4  1

Chapter 6

Turns: 6

Total Turns: 47

Total non-initial run compensation: 4

Comments: Very straightforward chapter. Chad goes west to collect some much needed liquid assets, everyone else takes the center. Wagner forgot how to dodge, much to my delight.

Stats:

Roy:        7.05 22  8  9 10  9  8  4  C Lance
Marcus:     5.19 34 10 15 14 10 10  9
Lance:      7.76 25  9  8 12  5  8  2  C Roy
Merlinus:   1.02 15 BASE
Thany:      6.08 24  6  8 16 10  8  7
Chad:       7.88 22  7  4 14  8  4  1
Saul:       5.55 20 BASE
Dorothy:    4.71 20  6  6  7  3  4  2

Initial attempts at Ch7 have all met with Roy dying depressingly early on into the chapter. I'll try it again tomorrow, probably. I need to figure out whether the turn 2 recruitment of Zealot is infeasible, and if I instead need to take things a bit more conservatively, hoping he can hold out on his own while Green.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Balcerzak

[Radiant Dragon]

Initial attempts at Ch7 have all met with Roy dying depressingly early on into the chapter. I'll try it again tomorrow, probably. I need to figure out whether the turn 2 recruitment of Zealot is infeasible, and if I instead need to take things a bit more conservatively, hoping he can hold out on his own while Green.

Same here. No one can survive a round with the wyvern riders. Aside from Marcus, half my team gets OHKO'd, and the other half has WTD. And I can't count on Treck helping as a NPC, he consistently dies on the first turn he comes out. Zealot isn't able to help much either before one of my people die.

[Balcerzak]

:

Turns: 13

Total Turns: 60

Non-initial compensation: 1

Total non-initial compensation: 5

Comments: Very, very dangerous chapter. If I didn't have Zealot, I don't know what I would have done. If I didn't have Dorothy, I don't know what I would have done. If I didn't have Thany, I don't know what I would have done. Etc., etc. Every single unit performed absolutely indispensible functions at several places in the chapter. Despite that all, I was still forced to watch Treck and Noah struggle in vain against the uprising, and die before their times. I will shed a tear for their inventories. Oh, gotta say, Merlinus was absolutely on top of his game as far as dodging goes, he basically tripled his earned XP this chapter alone, and provided more welcome distractions so I could set up positioning, and keep safe the units that actually matter. All houses and chests obtained, but I didn't nick that Red Gem from the wyvern rider. First attempt at this took 14 turns, because I hadn't thought to have Thany carry Saul for extra yardage, previously having had her do the shopping, instead of Lance, due to, I don't even know.

Stats:

Name:       L.XP HP  P Sk Sp  L  D  R  Sw Ln Ax Bw Sv An Li Da  Support
Roy:        8.05 23  8  9 10  9  8  5   C  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  C Lance
Marcus:     6.12 35 10 16 14 10 11  9   D  S  D  -  -  -  -  -  
Lance:      9.58 26 11 10 12  6  9  2   E  C  -  -  -  -  -  -  C Roy
Merlinus:   1.07 15 BASE
Thany:      7.50 25  6  9 17 10  8  8   -  C  -  -  -  -  -  -  
Chad:       8.18 22  8  5 14  9  4  1   D  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  
Saul:       6.60 21  5  6 10  2  2  6   -  -  -  -  C  -  -  -  
Dorothy:    8.08 24 10  8 11  4  4  3   -  -  -  D  -  -  -  -  
Zealot:     2.28 35 10 13 13  5 11  7   C  A  D  -  -  -  -  -   

Taking a well-deserved break from this for a bit now, in celebration of having cleared this hurdle.

Edit: Oh, and Radiant Dragon, I saw you wondering about possible good times for promotion. While I can't claim to really know for certain, I seem to remember that a lot of people try to early promote Rutger at or before 8x, for Critical boost + more Skill to defeat that hero boss. I know you asked about Dieck, but he's probably not as much a priority. Unless Rutger isn't ready by then, and promoting Dieck can also shave off some turns for you.

I'm also starting to get some wondering in here about how early I should be promoting my dudes as well. It'd be great if Thany could hit 10 and promote for Swords for Western Isles, but I'm not sure it's going to happen, as she's simply spending far too much time being useful as a transporter. I'm thinking long and hard about just insta-promoting Saul, assuming I've bought a Light tome by the time he hits 10, which probably means most of the way through Chapter 9, or beginning of 10. I don't think Lance needs the boosts very much at all, only being a little slower and less tanky than my paladins as is, though the +1 mov is somewhat tempting, I don't think I'm going to gimp him on growth levels, and slowed XP just yet.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Balcerzak

[Radiant Dragon]

Good job Balcerzak. Now I have to figure out how to get through that chapter...

EDIT: Thanks Balcerzak. You were right, I did miss the edit.

I know I will probably promote Dieck before C12 so he can use Durandal on Aine if the Wyrmslayer can't get the job done. It's just that, in the Sacred Stones draft, I simply promoted my units as soon as I got their promotion items because they needed the boosts (Joshua was my most durable unit, which obviously doesn't bode well for everyone else...), and I want to know how soon/at what level is a good time to promote in this game. The bonuses are great, but I don't want to end up gimping my units later on.

I would like to be able to promote Rutger to make C8x less of an RNG fest, but I don't particularly want to promote him at level 10, and he's only 6 right now.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Radiant Dragon

[chococoke]

Just want to say, you guys all have my support, impressive turncounts or not. Keep up the awesome work!

Also, loving the vids Bal.

[Balcerzak]

:

Turns: 17

Total Turns: 77

Non-initial compensation: 0

Total non-initial compensation: 5

Comments: Whole lot of rescue chaining going on here. OJ sacrifices himself for the good of the team. I could have probably busted them out without sacrificing any vital turns, but, not quite sure. Speaking of sacrificing turns... I could have had a turn 16 clear with this strategy if the RNG cooperated and Marcus landed his four out of six hits vs Leygance starting from the player phase (could have easily vulneraried him earlier, just forgot in this take), but no such luck, when I tried that, he ended up whiffing and so there you have it. I suppose I could also have tried even more reckless blasting through the earlier segments of the map with always-and-dedicated Roy and Chad carry, but I'm not sure whether that would compromise survival chances, promotion item grabbing, or Lilina Thunder tome convo. In the end, though, several nice levels, and despite OJ and (as always) Merlinus biting it, I think the strategy here worked very well. Saul hits on Dorothy (and she likes it).

Name:       L.XP HP  P Sk Sp  L  D  R  Sw Ln Ax Bw Sv An Li Da  Support
Roy:        8.79 23  8  9 10  9  8  5   C  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  C Lance
Marcus:     7.16 35 11 16 15 11 11 10   D  S  C  -  -  -  -  -  
Lance:     11.28 28 12 11 14  6 10  3   E  C  -  -  -  -  -  -  C Roy
Merlinus:   1.08 15 BASE
Thany:      9.20 26  8  9 18 12  9  8   -  C  -  -  -  -  -  -  
Chad:       9.21 22  8  6 15 10  5  1   D  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  
Saul:       8.56 22  5  8 11  2  2  6   -  -  -  -  C  -  -  -  C Dorothy
Dorothy:    9.98 25 11  8 12  4  4  3   -  -  -  C  -  -  -  -  C Saul
Zealot:     3.09 36 10 13 14  5 11  7   C  A  D  -  -  -  -  -  
Lilina:     2.06 16  6  6  5  4  2  8   -  -  -  -  C  -  -  - 

Chapter 8x:

Turns: 12

Total Turns: 89

Non-initial compensation: 4

Total non-initial compensation: 9

Comments: Yay Thany. Also, Lilina leveling grounds. In other news, holy hell his boss is ridiculous. If you don't have a little bit of good luck, or a dedicated boss-killer (read early-promoted Rutger) you're in for a real treat. Lack of effective weaponry, and worrying about getting doubled instead of the reverse is a 'winning' combination. Not much to say here except that my first try was 16 turns because I didn't ferry Saul over for heals. My second try Lilina had 8 speed by Level 6 (lololol), however when I attempted to duplicate the run to make a video somehow I must have messed up a random number somewhere but things went entirely differently past the point where Chad gets attacked by the archer (hit instead of dodge), requiring me to replan the last half of the chapter... again. Though, I saved another couple of turns, so I guess the moral of the story is "disregard stat gains, acquire low turn count". Roy gets a few more supports under his belt. (If you're wondering, I'm thinking BBC is the way to go on this run; maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I'll manage 'A's.)

Name:       L.XP HP  P Sk Sp  L  D  R  Sw Ln Ax Bw Sv An Li Da  Support
Roy:        9.04 24  8 10 11  9  9  5   C  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  C Lance, C Lilina, C Marcus
Marcus:     7.74 35 11 16 15 11 11 10   D  S  C  -  -  -  -  -  C Roy
Lance:     12.38 28 13 11 14  6 10  3   E  C  -  -  -  -  -  -  C Roy
Merlinus:   1.08 15 BASE
Thany:     10.09 26  8 10 18 13  9  9   -  C  -  -  -  -  -  -  
Chad:      10.58 23  8  7 15 10  5  1   D  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  
Saul:       9.95 22  5  8 12  2  2  7   -  -  -  -  C  -  -  -  C Dorothy
Dorothy:   10.28 26 12  8 13  5  5  3   -  -  -  C  -  -  -  -  C Saul
Zealot:     3.49 36 10 13 14  5 11  7   C  A  D  -  -  -  -  -  
Lilina:     5.57 17  9  7  6  5  2 10   -  -  -  -  C  -  -  -  C Roy

Towards the future... Need to decide how to handle Chapter 9's shopping menu, and whether or not Thany can find a spare turn to promote. It looks like I can't even sell items at base (I was well aware I couldn't buy any, but come on... selling, please), which means I may field Alan stuffed full of Red Gem, Hero Crest, and maybe something else to sell (Secret Book? Though maybe someone should just read that for the bonuses...). I know I need to buy some Anima tomes for Lilina, I don't think Light is on sale yet, but it couldn't hurt to grab some spare Heal staves for Saul. I need to check my 1-2 range weapon stock, but I think I still have ~4 Hand Axes and ~6 Javelins from my last splurg.

I'm noting that even at this stage of the game, my Marcus is still outperforming my Lance (mostly due to axes and weapon ranks, but still). I wonder when the tides will change for the seasoned veteran. Zealot is inferior to Marcus in every respect except Killing Edges, which will hopefully change soon, but losing out to the best unit on the team does not mean he's performing poorly by any means. Also, I just want to say that in every chapter since her joining, I've been able to make use of Dorothy's excellent offense on the enemy phase. Every chapter. Coupled with her availability, she was an absolutely fabulous 10th round pick for me. I kind of wish Saul would grow some more magic, though I guess he's still getting done everything he needs to, when he needs to. Growing Staff rank is much more tedious than I remembered, he's spammed every single turn (that he hasn't been a passenger for) so far, and still can't use that Physic...

Edited October 14, 2010 by Balcerzak

[Radiant Dragon]

I was planning to complete the normal mode draft before going back to this one, but after my screw-up in that draft resulting in having to restart from the beginning, I'm going to complete chapter 7 in this draft and move on soon, despite the fact that I don't particularly like my picks. I will finish both drafts, though. I just don't know how long it will take.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to post much, if any progress for the next few days (or possibly a week) due to Real Life getting in the way. I'll still be online a little, though.

Edit: And I second the fact that building staff rank sucks. The main problem is that staff users can't get the +2 exp from a killing blow. It's FE 9 all over again...

Edited October 15, 2010 by Radiant Dragon

[Raven]

I was planning to complete the normal mode draft before going back to this one, but after my screw-up in that draft resulting in having to restart from the beginning, I'm going to complete chapter 7 in this draft and move on soon, despite the fact that I don't particularly like my picks. I will finish both drafts, though. I just don't know how long it will take.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to post much, if any progress for the next few days (or possibly a week) due to Real Life getting in the way. I'll still be online a little, though.

Edit: And I second the fact that building staff rank sucks. The main problem is that staff users can't get the +2 exp from a killing blow. It's FE 9 all over again...

Don't worry, just do what you can. If you finish it successfully that would be a feat in itself.

[Balcerzak]

I was planning to complete the normal mode draft before going back to this one, but after my screw-up in that draft resulting in having to restart from the beginning, I'm going to complete chapter 7 in this draft and move on soon, despite the fact that I don't particularly like my picks. I will finish both drafts, though. I just don't know how long it will take.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to post much, if any progress for the next few days (or possibly a week) due to Real Life getting in the way. I'll still be online a little, though.

Edit: And I second the fact that building staff rank sucks. The main problem is that staff users can't get the +2 exp from a killing blow. It's FE 9 all over again...

I figured the NM run was taking priority (and can't blame you a bit for that). There's no rush at all, I took over a week break between reports, we haven't heard from Soul in awhile, don't feel pressured man. Whenever you can is good enough.

[Aquilae]

@ Balcerzak

You can still sell items in base through the weapon shop, just that you can't use promotion items / stat boosters.

[Radiant Dragon]

You can still sell items in base through the weapon shop, just that you can't use promotion items / stat boosters.

The preparations shop doesn't exist in Hard Mode.