Ike-Mike Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 As some of you might know, my biggest gripe with FE10 is that the twist that Ashera wasn't a good goddess basically comes out of left field and that it changes the story dynamics so much that it feels to me like something pulled out of the writers' ass just for the sake of having a plot twist. Therefore I challenge you, the members of SF, to show me any and all hints towards Ashera not being a good goddess all along both in FE9 and FE10 parts 1 through 3. Someone once mentioned the FE9 supports between Stefan and Mordecai as proof to me, but I'd like to see something more definite and less hidden than a support conversation between two units that you most likely aren't going to use anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whase Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 ... Ashera wasn't a good goddess ... that's open for interpretation, I think Ashera had a good point. if her plan would've worked, the world would be without conflict and suffering. only thing would be it would be empty... Deghinsea already told about Lehran's medal in PoR, though I don't think he explained the world would be ended with a continent wide war, but idk~ anyways, the concept was already in the minds of the makers since FE9 I think, it just got out a little sudden... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Wasn't it kinda supposed to come out of left field, or did I miss something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Wouldn't be a very good god if she left hints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike-Mike Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 The point is that all throughout PoR and the most part of RD we're being told that Ashera is the good and just goddess who is responsible that Tellius is as magnificient and magnificient as it is and that Yune is the evil goddess who needs to be sealed away in Lehran's Medaillon and then suddenly it all gets thrown throughout the window for part 4. That's what I mean when IS is trying to sway us with dirty tricks instead of staying true to FE's fundamentals. "Hey guys, I don't know how to make the standard FE plot fun and exciting anymore, let's throw in a plot twist that the evil god is actually the good one!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ein Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Well... Only a few individuals actually know what happened in the past. Yune was considered evil because she tried to drown the world to stop the fighting going on, if I remember correctly, and Ashera helped stop her with her blessings and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Frankly, I preferred it to "WE SERVE THE DARK GOD LOPOSTOSTU WHO IS EVIL". I don't see the problem still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 "Hey guys, I don't know how to make the standard FE plot fun and exciting anymore, let's throw in a plot twist that the evil god is actually the good one!" Actually, I don't think Ashera and Yune are ever really portrayed as good or evil by the game itself - they are simply order and chaos. The people in Tellius are the ones who classified them as good and evil, and this kind of judgement has always been very subjective - really, both Ashera and Yune just tried to achieve what they represent. Ashera tried to achieve order by making everything equal - while she may have chosen a pretty radical approach to do so, the goal in itself isn't evil (nor is it good, really). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike-Mike Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 Then why switch the axis from "good vs. evil" to "order vs. chaos" in the first place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Well, "order vs. chaos" just isn't quite as deadbeat as the millions of "good vs. evil"s we get in other games already. It's simply something different. And for the purpose of the game, it is effectively the same. Ashera's attempt to achieve absolute order would have meant that the people in Tellius basically no longer exist, so they obviously wanted to prevent that from happening. Voilá, there you've already got a reason to have two armies fight each other. Awesome. And as for Ashera's radical methods... If you were a divine being and knew your word was supposed to be absolute, yet nobody gave half a damn's worth about it, you'd probably be pretty pissed at people, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H3X/AntiStyle Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 I actually liked that story segment. I mean, it definitely throws you for a loop, while at the same time making sense. They could've just been like "Oh yeah, you guys had it all wrong totally completely, I'm really the good god and she's the evil god who imprisoned me because I stood in her way". And even Ashera wasn't "evil", just extremist. The whole reason she let em go on and shit was cuz she was all like "WELL, OKAY GAIS. ONE MORE TRY." I liked that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 The fact that the galldr of release exists at all seemed to be a hint that something wasn't right about this dark god business. Why would you want to keep the key to bringing back the dark god who pretty much destroyed the world? Although the way the characters came to that conclusion right as the medallion started going of control felt a bit odd to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whase Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 wasn't it Ashunera who created the big flood accidentally? and that after that she locked away the chaos (yune) so it might never happen again? (doing so by blessing the 3 heroes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike-Mike Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 Path of Radiance says it was just Yune, the perceived evil goddess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Then why switch the axis from "good vs. evil" to "order vs. chaos" in the first place? How is it a switch? The conflict between order and chaos has been strongly represented throughout the games - admittedly, nowhere as strong as in Part 4 of Radiant Dawn, but the whole of FE9 was a battle against chaos, personified by Ashnard, and much is also made of the conflict between the laguz (who tend towards chaos) and the ordered beorc (who tend towards order). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike-Mike Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 (edited) The order vs. chaos part in PoR's plot only played a very secondary role. It was still for the most part a good vs. evil plot. And it also feels like a switch because you can't take sides with the various factions in RD easily, whereas in PoR you could just root for Ike's army and be done with it. Edited October 4, 2010 by Ike-Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Cold Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 The order vs. chaos part in PoR's plot only played a very secondary role. It was still for the most part a good vs. evil plot. And it also feels like a switch because you can't take sides with the various factions in RD easily, whereas in PoR you could just root for Ike's army and be done with it. yes, it plays a secondary role, but it still is there, if 2 games would focus on the chaos vs order thing, everyone would complain about the lack of story (even more then now XD) Ashnard is evil because what he plans was for evil, their plans was to revive the "Dark god". But as mentioned, Dhegy "altered" the history so Yune is not the goddess of chaos but the evil goddess. So people won't try to revive it. I like what they did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 wasn't it Ashunera who created the big flood accidentally? and that after that she locked away the chaos (yune) so it might never happen again? (doing so by blessing the 3 heroes) It was the Yune aspect of Ashunera that caused the flood, not the whole of Ashunera. Hence why Ashera got pissed. Yune herself explains this. Its further explained in the endgame cutscenes. Ashera was dismayed by the Yune piece causing the destruction and wished to expunge that aspect. I like what they did As did i, at least with that aspect of the story line. It made sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Funny how this plot shares similiarities to real life events. Like the depiction of human self-destruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Ehh, I don't really mind that it came out of nowhere as much as how it was handled. It felt sorta like "Hmm, how can we solve this giant battle without killing off one of the sides and get everyone working together? ASHERA'S EVIL" rather than some actual plot twist. IMO, it would have worked better as a third game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silith Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Wouldn't it be more fun if everyone who wasn't strong enough would've just gopne crazy from the sudden Chaos surge and started fighting. Yune revives and notices there is something wrong. She tells you how she and her sister work bla bla bla. In the end your guys would have to search for a cue to this Chaos and look for Ashera (the goddess of Order). After fighting their way to Ashera, Ashera herself is pissed. Ashera absorbs Yune's powers and then merges with Fiona. Fiona becomes the first Black Female president of the USA and all her caps double while her stats tripple. You as the player will have to nuke the USA in real life to beat her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 yes, it plays a secondary role, but it still is there, if 2 games would focus on the chaos vs order thing, everyone would complain about the lack of story (even more then now XD) Ashnard is evil because what he plans was for evil, their plans was to revive the "Dark god". Ashnard's not trying to revive her because he thinks that she's evil or because he wants to destroy the world. It's because he recognises that Yune is a goddess of chaos and he wants to create a chaotic world where strength is all that matters. It's an interesting opposite extreme to Ashera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 They could've just been like "Oh yeah, you guys had it all wrong totally completely, I'm really the good god and she's the evil god who imprisoned me because I stood in her way". And even Ashera wasn't "evil", just extremist. The whole reason she let em go on and shit was cuz she was all like "WELL, OKAY GAIS. ONE MORE TRY." I liked that. I don't like this answer simply because I can see a real life application where it's actually wrong. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike-Mike Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) But as mentioned, Dhegy "altered" the history so Yune is not the goddess of chaos but the evil goddess. So people won't try to revive it. How come Dheginsea could rewrite history just like that? I mean, he wasn't the only person living on Tellius at the time. And even then If you were a divine being and knew your word was supposed to be absolute, yet nobody gave half a damn's worth about it, you'd probably be pretty pissed at people, too. if everything would've gone well and there actually was peace for a thousand years wouldn't she be pretty pissed that people didn't do so because they learned from their mistakes but because they were in living in fear due to the lies of one of your old acquaintances? Edited October 6, 2010 by Ike-Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegerZero Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) How come Dheginsea could rewrite history just like that? I mean, he wasn't the only person living on Tellius at the time. He's known as the living fossil in game. He is the only surviving member of the original war between the two goddesses. Through his long life, he can easily just said people were mistaken about Yune being merely chaos and is evil. It's hard to disagree with someone who was actually there, most likely can prove it, and history almost always tends to get skewed anyway. The dude had a lot of things in his favor to get what he wants. Edited October 6, 2010 by IntegerZero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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