Code Geass

[Squidorsky]

I just after a year after watching the first season) finished the second season...though nothing came to as a shock as i'd already looked up the ending. ( More precisely i had the ending ruined by youtube...)

Anyhoo i've been trying to understand the ending. Lelouch dies...but is that true? I've looked around at several sites with different opinions but never any thoughts on it, like they presented their opinion but they never backed it. So what i'd like to see is what every one has to say about the ending? Is lelouch really dead or alive and why?

So that said i'll lay my thoughts down...

Lelouch, in the world of C, gained his double Geass and as such control of it...with that geass he killed Charles( Who at the time now has a code) so by not killing the contractor who gave him the geass(C2) he now has a code and a Geass, hence the name for the series ( This is a stretch but...it kinda makes sense to me)

In order for the code to activate you need to die...precisely what lelouch did...

Also why would Jeremiah, who lived only to serve lelouch willingly let zero, the propagator of his anguish, by to kill his lord? Unless of course, he might have been in on the zero requiem plan...but it seems patchy.

I'm not some zany fanboy who has to have the main character live to enjoy it, it's just that the only argument for him being indeed dead was "LELOUCH IS DEAD, IT'S A BETTER ENDING THAT WAY!!!" or something like that...And then the main writer and director said that he was dead but again that felt...like a lie...it's like they were pressured into the answer. ( Or by a stretch they consider themselves in on the secret...like c2 possibly is...again a stretch but it's fun to consider?)

These are just thoughts, i want to have a true discussion about this...not a flame war, it's fine if you think i'm completely wrong...just back up your counter-argument.

Alright let the discussion begin! (MMMEEEOOOOWWWW!!!....Pardon the lame code geass joke...( Hey i watched it all weekend so sue me!))

-Eriad-

[FragMaster]

i think lelouch is immortal. i'm sorry if i have no backing but the only thing i remember is that zero requiem was supposed to be that suzaku would kill lelouch. However, from lelouch's nature, he would never let himself get killed so the only thing that i could think was that lelouch and CC are the only ones that know that lelouch is alive. I think

[Galenforcer]

My first look into the series was the ending lol.

Lots of theories were made whether Lelouch died are not, but really people would prefer if he stayed dead because otherwise it ruins the impact of the ending.

Jeremiah's first priority is loyalty, as he's willing to follow and trust those he swears allegiance to.

[Squidorsky]

he would never let himself get killed so the only thing that i could think was that lelouch and CC are the only ones that know that lelouch is alive

For real...who's to say the man who singlehandedly brought the wrld to it's knees can't fake his death?

Lots of theories were made whether Lelouch died are not, but really people would prefer if he stayed dead because otherwise it ruins the impact of the ending.

But just what is the impact of the ending? The fact that he was so willing to change the world that he died for his beliefs and actions? Why does him dying or living make the ending any different...when you think about it...he is "dead" to the world at least as far as they know, whether he is alive or not. (Is Jesus any less of a hero to us if he died on the cross but "lives"? Excuse my bringing of religion into this but it was the best analogy I could think of...)

I'm not about to get all religious and philosophical about this...but the list goes on. I get that scapegoats and martyrs tend to be celebrated because of how they met their end but...when there are SO many things pointing to one outcome...

We are shown that lelouch died...but the evidence is there that he could have lived...but we are only taking what we see as fact rather than looking at the whole thing. We were told that Lelouch is dead...but with so many things laid on the table prior to his "death" Is it so believable that he's dead? I believe that's why so many people theorize and have such a problem with his death, there is so much groundwork laid to us that he didn't die.

If he's dead or not i highly disagree that it ruins the ending...in a way I believe that it's better if he's alive...Say he got the code...then He and C.C. would forever be protectors of the world...they watch over the world as guardian angels, rather than the demon and witch they once called each other. His death was like a rebirth...( Again a stretch but the last episode was called Re;...this could stand for Rebirth even...for the world and Lelouch.)

Well that's what i think...feel free to agree or disagree...or just submit some input.

-Eriad-

Edited November 16, 2010 by Eriad

[Esau of Isaac]

For someone who has not finished Code Geass, you just got done ruining the most impacting moment of the entire series. Spoilers, anyone?

Anyhoo i've been trying to understand the ending. Lelouch dies...but is that true? I've looked around at several sites with different opinions but never any thoughts on it, like they presented their opinion but they never backed it. So what i'd like to see is what every one has to say about the ending? Is lelouch really dead or alive and why?

Lelouch is dead. The creator said as much.

Lelouch, in the world of C, gained his double Geass and as such control of it...with that geass he killed Charles( Who at the time now has a code) so by not killing the contractor who gave him the geass(C2) he now has a code and a Geass, hence the name for the series ( This is a stretch but...it kinda makes sense to me)

Whoa whoa whoa, who the hell ever said he has a Code? There was never any indication that Charles transmitted it to him.

Also why would Jeremiah, who lived only to serve lelouch willingly let zero, the propagator of his anguish, by to kill his lord? Unless of course, he might have been in on the zero requiem plan...but it seems patchy.

There is absolutely no way that he did not know what was going on. It's obvious that he let Suzaku past him with no effort on his part.

I'm not some zany fanboy who has to have the main character live to enjoy it, it's just that the only argument for him being indeed dead was "LELOUCH IS DEAD, IT'S A BETTER ENDING THAT WAY!!!" or something like that...And then the main writer and director said that he was dead but again that felt...like a lie...it's like they were pressured into the answer. ( Or by a stretch they consider themselves in on the secret...like c2 possibly is...again a stretch but it's fun to consider?)

He's as dead as it gets. There are even some little events that occur afterwards in which characters explicitly acknowledge he is dead, including C2.

There's just no conclusive evidence of him being alive, whereas there are mountains that point to him having kicked the bucket.

But just what is the impact of the ending? The fact that he was so willing to change the world that he died for his beliefs and actions? Why does him dying or living make the ending any different...when you think about it...he is "dead" to the world at least as far as they know, whether he is alive or not. (Is Jesus any less of a hero to us if he died on the cross but "lives"? Excuse my bringing of religion into this but it was the best analogy I could think of...)

The impact is that he didn't get what he deserved. For all the lives he ruined even he acknowledged how much he should get his shit pushed for anything to be fair.

[lolDeath]

It's far too late for spoiler tags, my friend. Yeah he's fucking dead. People like to latch onto this kind of possible thing that could have happened that would have allowed for him to survive, and even though it would have worked, it just didn't happen.

By the way, if any of you want a laugh, there is a member here called some shit like Hex//Antistyle... send him a picture of dead Shirley.

[Squidorsky]

Umm i kinda put SPOILERS in the title...

Lelouch is dead. The creator said as much.

I get that...did you even read what else i wrote?

And then the main writer and director said that he was dead

...Sigh...

I'm neither obessesed with him dying or trying to hold onto the hope that he got the code. I merely stated it asa possibility...if V2 lost his code unwillingly and C2 gained hers without her consent, so who's to say Lelouch didn't take charles' code with out even realizing it or meaning to? After all the code doesn't activate until the owner dies.

Honestly it could go either way...there's mountains of evidence leading to his death ( Beieve me, i agree with you death...we saw him die didn't we and that's hard to fake) But likewise there is much in the story, like the behavior of the geass and code that haven't been fully developed.

It's not a false hope in saying he got the code...it's a possibility...one of the endless possibilities as to the ending of the story.

Overall i believe the ending was written the way it was to leave it as an open ending...You as the reader get to finish the story the way you want it to end...hence the purpose for an open ending. It really goes either way, you could easily take the same scenes from the ending and say he's dead or alive. I think it was stupid that the creator said he died, It should have been left as an open ending. much like the ending of Tales of the abyss...

In it, a man shows up appearing to be either Luke or Asch, it's never said who it is and that's because you chose who you wish to be alive.

But before i digress too much, i think it's unfair that people criticize others for the ending they choose...i believe both are right and equally so, just as good.

Well that's that...i hope some of you agree...

-Eriad-

[Original Alear]

I'm not reading this thread, as I just started season 2 and don't know where you guys are. However, I really like that

[spoiler=episode 20 or so spoilers]Euphimia got geassed to go berserk and kill Japanese. Her holding a machine gun was LOL. Am I a bad person?

Edited November 16, 2010 by SeverIan

[Strawman]

Well didn't they not too long ago (but after the end of season 2) come out with a new manga series of Code Geass? Go read that and find out if he is dead or not because I can't even remember the ending I watched it so long ago.

[Squidorsky]

Err...well the manga series is actually a prequel, so no help there, but i don't really care. the ending was supposed to be open in my opinion, you pick the ending you see best!

End of story!

Alrighty...thanks for hearing me out everyone...Later!

-Eriad-

[Esau of Isaac]

I'm neither obessesed with him dying or trying to hold onto the hope that he got the code. I merely stated it asa possibility...if V2 lost his code unwillingly and C2 gained hers without her consent, so who's to say Lelouch didn't take charles' code with out even realizing it or meaning to?

Because there was never any indication that it occurred?

How do you know that Shirley wasn't just faking being dead? What if she actually orchestrated all of the events of the series?

Overall i believe the ending was written the way it was to leave it as an open ending...You as the reader get to finish the story the way you want it to end...hence the purpose for an open ending.

If it were meant to be an open ending regarding the status of his life, he wouldn't have been officially confirmed to be dead.

But before i digress too much, i think it's unfair that people criticize others for the ending they choose...i believe both are right and equally so, just as good.

No, you don't. You don't believe both are right, because they are mutually exclusive scenarios. You can't be both alive and dead.

[Squidorsky]

Sigh...Just because there is no indication of something doesn't mean it couldn't have been there/ happened. ( Tree falls in the forest and now one's there to hear it, does it make a sound, kind of scenario.)

Perhaps she was!!!

Jokes aside, it WAS meant as an open ending, the director said so himself.( I don't remember where i read this but i swear on pain of death i'm not making this up!) However due to so much prodding from fans, they through out that. But that little stunt doesn't change what's already been laid out for us, it was said AFTER the fact. It's like when J.k. rowling said dumbledore was gay after the conclusion of the series, yet no where in the books was that truly ever said, thus does it make it a fact? Not really...same for code geass.

When you get told a bed time story and you finish it and go to bed thinking it was a good story only to wake up and realize your narrator forgot that the main character died right after the happy ending due to heart failure, is that really considered a part of the story. No it was said after the fact though no where in the story was it ever said that the main character had heart problems.

Which going with this argument, they either spit out a bad rushed ending with an abrupt end, or gave their TAKE on the open ending. Did they specifically say that he in no way got the code? They merely said he was dead, which gives more credence to the possibility of the openness of the ending.

You misunderstand me when i said i believe both are right, I meant if you say he is dead but i say he's alive, then it's perfectly fine. I meant that there shouldn't be so much yelling between fans on the ending when both sides have good evidence backing both claims. I'm not saying that seeing lelouch with a sword through his chest isn't hard evidence, but with the introduction of a force called Geass and namely the Code, then it's really unprovable.

Basically both sides are right ( In the sense that it's ok to think either is right); your choice is your choice, as mine is mine.

The only reason i say all this is because i'm tired of all the people saying only one way is right because that's what we are told by the post facto words of the creators.

Well that's my outlook on all of this...You don't have to agree with the ending i'd prefer but I at least hope my argument makes sense enough to at least dwell on. In any case i thank you for listening to my ramblings,

-Eriad-

[Esau of Isaac]

Sigh...Just because there is no indication of something doesn't mean it couldn't have been there/ happened.

Which says nothing of whether it probably happened. It's possible that Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, and Kurt Kobain are all alive and kicking, and planning to put together a ridiculously awesome band of unfathomable quality.

They're all as definitively dead as it gets as far as anyone can tell, however.

Jokes aside, it WAS meant as an open ending, the director said so himself.( I don't remember where i read this but i swear on pain of death i'm not making this up!) However due to so much prodding from fans, they through out that. But that little stunt doesn't change what's already been laid out for us, it was said AFTER the fact. It's like when J.k. rowling said dumbledore was gay after the conclusion of the series, yet no where in the books was that truly ever said, thus does it make it a fact? Not really...same for code geass.

Yes, it does make it a fact. It especially makes it a fact when it is a clarification of a scenario. If people were asking why the fuck Dumbledore was so damn attached to Grindelwald and then J.K. Rowling were to say "He was gay, and in love with him," then it would be a clarification and explanation of events, utterly disqualifying any other possibility in J.K. Rowling's world.

He was shown to have died, he deserved to die, there's nothing that indicates he survived, and the creator said he died. He's dead, man. That's as airtight as it gets.

When you get told a bed time story and you finish it and go to bed thinking it was a good story only to wake up and realize your narrator forgot that the main character died right after the happy ending due to heart failure, is that really considered a part of the story. No it was said after the fact though no where in the story was it ever said that the main character had heart problems.

Which is utterly irrelevant, given that it occurred after the conclusion of the storyline. This fucking didn't.

There is literally nothing that could possibly confirm that he is dead as you are requesting, because you can always conclude that he somehow survived. Which is fine; it's fiction, go nuts with your own ideas. Maybe make every singly female in the series part of Lelouch's harem too. But he is objectively dead in the official canon.

Which going with this argument, they either spit out a bad rushed ending with an abrupt end, or gave their TAKE on the open ending. Did they specifically say that he in no way got the code? They merely said he was dead, which gives more credence to the possibility of the openness of the ending.

Did George Lucas ever specifically say that Darth Vader wasn't lying about Luke being his son? Did Sir Arthur Conan Doyle ever specifically say that every single adventure of Holmes was orchestrated by Watson? Did Mary Shelley ever specifically say that the Frankenstein Monster was not a hermaphroditic homosexual?

Are you going to seriously consider that any of these actually occurred in their respective storylines?

You misunderstand me when i said i believe both are right, I meant if you say he is dead but i say he's alive, then it's perfectly fine. I meant that there shouldn't be so much yelling between fans on the ending when both sides have good evidence backing both claims. I'm not saying that seeing lelouch with a sword through his chest isn't hard evidence, but with the introduction of a force called Geass and namely the Code, then it's really unprovable.

But there isn't evidence on both sides. There is in fact no direct or clear evidence in any form to suggest that he survived, only conjecture utilized through lack of the most explicit rendering of his decomposing body. If the probability of him being either alive or dead are both equally possible, then so too are the ideas of geocentrism and heliocentrism.

[Squidorsky]

Forget it...I'm so through with this...With several supernatural abilities addressed into the series how can you instantly rule out a supernatural ending?

Lelouch...is very much like Santa Claus. He's as alive as you believe and want him to be.

Cut, print, roll, wrap, Baby!

-Eriad-

[Esau of Isaac]

Forget it...I'm so through with this...With several supernatural abilities addressed into the series how can you instantly rule out a supernatural ending?

Because there's no indication it occurred. Just because there are some supernatural abilities doesn't mean that any idea regarding it is valid.

Was Lelouch actually a man? Did he even survive past the opening scenes? Is the title of the series indeed Code Geass? Can you even say that Code Geass ever existed in the first place? What about anime itself? Is it real, or were we just programmed to believe it's real?

Do you realize where this silliness is going? Will this post be composed of nothing but questions?

[Squidorsky]

Apparently it's going no where. I never wanted this to be an argument...But of course that's all it turned into. Thanks for nothing.

When i said each side was equally likely, i meant that i respect both sides, i may not agree with one but i absolutely respect it. I ask one little question and instantly you make it into an insult. I have no idea where you begin to feel the need to bring in all this obviously ridiculous crap, but it's obvious that that's all you see my POV and I as.

It was nice talking with you,thank you for your time, sorry i wasted it.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Eriad

[Esau of Isaac]

Apparently it's going no where. I never wanted this to be an argument...But of course that's all it turned into. Thanks for nothing.

When i said each side was equally likely, i meant that i respect both sides, i may not agree with one but i absolutely respect it. I ask one little question and instantly you make it into an insult. I have no idea where you begin to feel the need to bring in all this obviously ridiculous crap, but it's obvious that that's all you see my POV and I as.

It was nice talking with you,thank you for your time, sorry i wasted it.

You're not a victim. Stop acting like you are simply because I display the silliness of your position.

[Original Alear]

I finished this series. My god, it's more addictive than crack.

Hey, as far as the whole "What if Leluoch got the code from CC and became immortal" BS, take a look at 5m9s of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dywO8eMBB1U&playnext=1&list=PL9E88BFF4D0D89C5A&index=58#t=5m9s

You can make out the mark of the code under CC's hair as she cries, meaning she didn't pass it on to Lelouch.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Nightmare

[Esau of Isaac]

Well, the idea is that Charles passed the Code down to Lelouch, probably as a means of punishment or something. So in the theory that he survived, he went off and lived quietly with CC in peace. The idea also assumes that the driver of the cart at the end is actually Lelouch.

It's neat, and more satisfying for the character, but...

[Defeatist Elitist]

It's neat, and more satisfying for the character, but...

Honestly, it means more if Lelouch dies, to me. It's more satisfying. I guess it means that despite all the terrible thing he did, he not only accepted his role in it and tried to put it right, but also ultimately proved his devotion to his ethos; he killed others, so he was prepared to die himself. So honestly, it's really just the neat bit, and even then it seems kind of messy. I don't really know why people believe it at all...

Edited December 1, 2010 by ZXValaRevan

[Aleph]

Xanatos Grandmastermind. Aha, he is invincible.

Maybe?

[Kanami]

Code Geass R3!

..... Or rather a Gaiden Anime :/

Not much information on it yet but the official japanese site is probably able to be considered credible source XD

Boukoku No Akito :/

Edited January 7, 2011 by Kanami

[Furby]

A lot of people have said that the author has stated Lelouch to be dead. Whether you believe that or not is up to you.

My vote, though, is that if Lelouch wasn't dead, then Suzaku and C.C. definitely wouldn't have been so damn emotional towards the end. Don't get me wrong, there's definitely something on Suzaku's end about having to stab your friend, but it would have been dismissible in the end if Lelouch were to live.

As for Lelouch getting Charles' Code, I think it was implied that his code was destroyed along with the man himself. Even if it weren't destroyed, the idea that Lelouch had received the code is proven incorrect by the fact that Lelouch still has his Geass. Everyone else who received a code lost their Geass power (It's in fact stated that this is what happens).

EDIT: OH my fucking christ is this seriously that damn old?

Edited January 14, 2011 by Furby

[Esau of Isaac]

They aren't supposed to lose their power until they die, to my knowledge. Assuming he did receive the Code, it would remain dormant until he were to expire, at which point he would become immortal.

[Kriemhild]

Like Furby said, when someone gets the Code, they lose their Geass. In fact, I think Charles himself once said something about being unable to mess with people's memories anymore. Lelouch most definitely still had his Geass after that.

And as Lelouch said, the only ones who can shoot are those prepared to be shot themselves. And besides, after he thought that Nanaly died and the Black Knights betrayed him, he felt that his life had no purpose and was ready to die. He even tried to tell Rolo to stop saving his life. Keep in mind that he planned the Zero Requiem while he assumed that Nanaly was already dead. And when he discovered that she was alive, he was having doubts on whether he should go on with it but then Suzaku convinced him to stick to his plan.

All evidence seems to be pointing towards Lelouch dying.

As for Jeremiah, well, he remains loyal to Lelouch and followed his plan. It's not like he really loves Lelouch or anything and wouldn't stand seeing him die.