Integrity Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 okay fine you did the math, good boy and all that I'm proud of you now why shouldn't Warp/Rescue be banned? Give me one good reason besides "well they're not broken without hammerne and without being used on marth and without being ..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I KNOW WHY. THERE IS NO REASON WHY. BAN THEM, SIMPLIFY EVERYTHING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Alright, I completed my FE7 EHM draft in 196 turns total. Marcus was allowed all the way through though, so eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 1333145602[/url]' post='1917202']okay fine you did the math, good boy and all that I'm proud of you now why shouldn't Warp/Rescue be banned? Give me one good reason besides "well they're not broken without hammerne and without being used on marth and without being ..." Because if you for example draft midia, she is dead before you can do anything, she starts almost next to hardin, in between generals, who attack turn one, and kill her. Rescue is the only thing that saves her. So when you ban recue, to avoid exceptions, you find new ones anyway. Ill go by it chapter by chapter laterBanning warp is actually not that bad, since it eliminates rescue chains. I was thinking about hammerne an rescue btw, not wrp. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Because if you for example draft midia, she is dead before you can do anything, she starts almost next to hardin, in between generals, who attack turn one, and kill her. Rescue is the only thing that saves her. So when you ban recue, to avoid exceptions, you find new ones anyway. Ill go by it chapter by chapter laterBanning warp is actually not that bad, since it eliminates rescue chains. I was thinking about hammerne an rescue btw, not wrp. =/ Midia sucks anyways and is a poor draft pick. You're going to have to do better than that, my friend! Edited March 31, 2012 by Refa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 1333152915[/url]' post='1917516']Midia sucks anyways and is a poor draft pick. You're going to have to do better than that, my friend! You learn to read im going by chapter by chapter later today, and the fact that she is a late draft pick doesnt change the fact that shell still be killed turn one any other way. >_> not being allowed to have her survive means she would be the lowest tier in fe history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Sal knows what hes talking about. Look at FE11, that game is always the same in drafts. Everyone gets 133, every fucking time. Smart use of rescue is what separates good drafters from bad FE12 drafters. Remove rescue and everyone gets the same freaking TC all the time like FE11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 The reason everyone gets the same turncount in Shadowdragon is because ya'll play easymodo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 You get rescue in ch 4, most of its use is to save turns, but there are a couple of moments where it is used as what it was actually meant for. And ofc, the staff is neat if you positioned someone wrong. It is level e, so noone can say they cant use it and are at a disadvantage. Its a fair gameplay element and everyone can use it equally, how they use it makes the difference. Ch 7 has feena and navarre surrounded by bandits, especially on harder modes, you have to rescue feena at least, h1 is lenient, but it is a much safer option. Chapter 8 is a sandwich fest, heroes, paladins and generals, easy mispositioning happens, the enemies are quite tough. Especially when astram starts hunting you, for ltc its a non issue, but not everyone plays drafts to the extreme, there are inexperienced players. Fe12 doesnt really reward you for turtling.Ch 10 has merric in a bunch of enemies, he is likely to die, there is one spot he doesnt die easily, but it requires him to crit something or w/e. its easier to just recue him, instead of having to restart because he died.Ch 11 is the desert, and mages are so much faster here blahblah.Ch 12 has 12 move flying swordmasters and fire dragons coming at you while you are stuck on a three tile wide bridge. Shit happens, shit happens shit happens. Ch 14 enters warp, which i didnt even bring up at first. So /careCh 16 has an extra rescue staff, thief staff helps, even if warp is banned. Ch 20 has midia. She will die turn 1 otherwise. From here on, its enter wyverns, meteor, swarm and glower, shit is really shit and units are likely to die if there is something on the map that 2hko's almost everything you have. What do those sorcs do, 28 damage? Hammerne is useful, and only breaks the game in combination with rescue, any other staff is not possible of recreating that potential. Hammerne and malliesia cost turns to get, use on the again staff makes them break even, hammerne on a nosferatu tome for example is on high demand. Since did i mention 28 mag luna effect sorcs, well. Without he crit? But still, 28 damage enemies, on all your units. There are loads of chapters Where it is usefull because marth has to go to the other side of he map first. It is an aspect of the game that is open for all players, and it is the skill of the player that determines the potential. Otherwise it will like pkl said become fe11 again, where its same old same old same old all the time. Its an aspect that creates diversity in a game, and everyone can use it, reclassing anything to cleric makes rescue possiblle. Otherwise i can host an fe12 draft without use of rescue, warp and hammerne. See what people think. Might i ask, why isnt warp banned in the gba games? Saleh creates a wave of one and two turns once he starts warping right? Pent is always considered awesome. Idk since i hardly play those games, just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Alright, I completed my FE7 EHM draft in 196 turns total. Marcus was allowed all the way through though, so eh. Logged. Somebody split Sal's fucking post into something resembling paragraphs. It's way too early for me to even begin to parse that shit. also The reason everyone gets the same turncount in Shadowdragon is because ya'll play easymodo. ffs this I've been saying it for months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 1333194289[/url]' post='1917996']Logged. Somebody split Sal's fucking post into something resembling paragraphs. It's way too early for me to even begin to parse that shit. also ffs this I've been saying it for months Yeah sorry bout that, my ipad is not exactly friendly with that... =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) You learn to read im going by chapter by chapter later today, and the fact that she is a late draft pick doesnt change the fact that shell still be killed turn one any other way. >_> not being allowed to have her survive means she would be the lowest tier in fe history. Yeah, just like Xavier in FE5. So what? Sal knows what hes talking about. Look at FE11, that game is always the same in drafts. Everyone gets 133, every fucking time. Smart use of rescue is what separates good drafters from bad FE12 drafters. Remove rescue and everyone gets the same freaking TC all the time like FE11. Smart use of rescue probably equates to using rescue at each of the points where it' gets Marth to the throne the quickest. Ooooh, yet another reason NOT to use it on Midia! EDIT FInished Emelina's Standard Draft 30987 that I took over for Creeper in 130 turns! Edited March 31, 2012 by Refa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 tag team v #31432 Rapier: Ethlin, Briggid, Fin, Lex, Noish feat. 13th: Leaf, Altenna, Patty, Faval, Fin, Shanan, Linda, Sharlow, Johan, Hannibal Darros: Sylvia, Ayra, Alec, Dew, Holyn feat. Parco Folgore: Leen, Corple, Lakche, Skasahar, Ares, Daisy, Mana Dimna, Johalva, *General Horace: Aideen, Lachesis, Cuan, Azel, Beowulf feat. Camtech: Lana, Lester, Delmud, Nanna, Femina, Hawk, Amid, Roddelban, Asaello Refa: Tiltyu, Fury, Levin, Claude, Midir, Jamka feat. Integrity: Arthur, Tinny, Fee, Sety, Laylea, Janne, Tristan, Radney i don't think i screwed anything up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) i don't think i screwed anything up Perfect except for a MISSING COMMA YOU FAILURE ily still~ EDIT: And logged Refa's edit. Edited March 31, 2012 by Integrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Completed LHM + HNM: the second welcoming draft! #30801 in 261 turns. Curse you, Refa and your flier stealing ways! Edited March 31, 2012 by Parco Folgore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naglfar Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) no warp except on thieves, no hammerne done edit: and someone explain to me why fe9 marcia/jill are allowed bexp ever Edited April 1, 2012 by Naglfar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) I propose this: Warp is allowed to be used on any unit barring Marth/Feena. Rescue is free to be used except on a unit with a staff rank. Rescue cannot be used by a unit that has been warped previously on the chapter. EDIT: nags, jill and marcia are fine as they are. Its not like they can earlypromote anywhere with those limits. No BEXP would be too harsh. Maybe no BEXP on marcia since she joins earlier but jill is fine as is. Edited April 1, 2012 by General Haarace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naglfar Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Surely they're still the best units in the game even without BEXP :/ also your fe12 rules are even more complicated than the ones we already have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) Because being complicated makes it automatically worse, amirite? No. Meh im done arguing this. Like Sal told me in IP chat: if rescue gets banned in the GRs, it doesnt mean we have to follow them. Ill just be smart and host my drafts with non-banned rescue. Also, yes they are still the best units in FE9 so why even bother restricting them even more to get the same result? Edited April 1, 2012 by General Haarace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naglfar Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Some people don't feel like memorising convoluted rulesets. Standard rulesets should be as simple as possible. BEXP Jill/Marcia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else non-BEXP Jill/Marcia > everyone else, or maybe even not Closing the ridiculous gap here and making winning even conceivable for whoever doesn't draft first or second is not the same result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naglfar Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 SFDTT FE8 done in 144 turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 in the FE8 exp draft, I finished with an abysmal score of 276.8, but I think I should get bonus points for having Neimi OHKO Morva and Kill the goat demon >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) Derp. Edited April 1, 2012 by General Haarace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naglfar Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 that post is so bipolar I sort of laughed a bit in real life at the end Maybe I'm jumping the gun here. I've never played an FE9 draft. Just saying Jill and Marcia are clearly way ahead of the pack and there's a pretty obvious way to rein them in a bit. It's not OH THEY'RE THE BEST BAN THEM, in fact it was nothing like that so your thing doesn't even make sense. FE12 rules: Surely you can condense that somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) @PKL: Look, dude, convoluted or non-convoluted I don't really give that much of a fuck. The thing is, though, I'd rather have simplicity where I can have it and none of you have given me a good reason not to have a blanket ban on that shit. The closest anybody has ever come is "well then midia would die every time". Nobody has made a convincing argument for the staves being free besides "it's necessary for the lowest turns". For the record, I don't really like the FE9 BEXP limits but without them FE9 drafting is a horrible snarly mess smashed open by Marcia's existence. EDIT: Also logged things. Edited April 1, 2012 by Integrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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