[FE9] PoR Draft Tourney Tier List

[Florete]

I think Janaff is crazily overrated on this tier list. What does Devdan/Taur do that Janaff doesn't? I mean, he flies, has more mov, and he stars transformed so even that isn't too big a problem (he takes, like ~4 turns to untransform. That's 4 turns of exitant combat, whereas taur probably gets none outside of chapter 21, where he sucks because he can't ORKO without being traded a forge (and Marcia/Titania would much rather keep theirs.)

I can't help but think that should be underrated. I don't disagree, but forges are no issue here. I was practically swimming in excess forges on my run, and the only Laguz I had were Mordecai and Reyson. Honestly, there were chapters where I didn't know what to forge because I already had plenty of everything.

[Zkirsche]

Lol, well, I'm in a forge panic moment atm, as I need two more ranged weapon forges, with only 1 ranged weapon opportunity.

Plus, I'm not wasting valuable PP's trading Taur what he needs to be good when in a draft PT, PP's are super important.

Also, yeah, I meant underrated :/

[Kaoz]

I should be around more often, shouldn't I...?

Anyway, I don't oppose Brom and Gatrie dropping, I've complained about their move often enough. Where to though? When they can't reach enemies, all they have is a shove on turn 1... which would put them slightly above Ena/Nasir due to being around longer. Gartie has a few chapters in early game and Tauroneo chapter 21 to add to that, though it'd probably be a stretch to say that they save more than 1 turn each (if even).

As for Janaff, I guess he could rise a bit, the question is whether there are any other units besides the armors and Devdan he could surpass.. I suppose Devdan could even go to the bottom of the list, seeing as he's the only character that costs turns to recruit in every team...

Plus, I'm not wasting valuable PP's trading Taur what he needs to be good when in a draft PT, PP's are super important.

Ike or Mist can trade the forge after recruiting him.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Kaoz

[Florete]

Lol, well, I'm in a forge panic moment atm, as I need two more ranged weapon forges, with only 1 ranged weapon opportunity.

Hm...You probably have a point there. I only had Titania and Brom as physical rangers, and I was not wasting forges on Javelins for Brom.

Plus, I'm not wasting valuable PP's trading Taur what he needs to be good when in a draft PT, PP's are super important.

I'd probably disregard most combat Tauroneo contributes to when he joins anyway. It's at the end of the map, possibly on the second to last turn, and there just aren't enough enemies left. I'd say his best utility there is being traded a Chest Key immediately so he can take the job of grabbing the Brave Sword from someone who matters.

[Zkirsche]

Anyway, I don't oppose Brom and Gatrie dropping, I've complained about their move often enough. Where to though? When they can't reach enemies, all they have is a shove on turn 1... which would put them slightly above Ena/Nasir due to being around longer. Gartie has a few chapters in early game and Tauroneo chapter 21 to add to that, though it'd probably be a stretch to say that they save more than 1 turn each (if even).

Gatrie shouldn't drop that much, he has very useful early game utility. Perhaps below Elincia, though I'll haven't been able to judge her rescue staff utility yet.

Brom and Taur should definitely drop though, almost completely useless aside from some early chapter utility. They never really save turns, and from the moment the chapter starts they are probably a bit behind. Even my Ike can't keep up at all, and he has 7 mov. I'd say top of 6th pick.

As for Janaff, I guess he could rise a bit, the question is whether there are any other units besides the armors and Devdan he could surpass.. I suppose Devdan could even go to the bottom of the list, seeing as he's the only character that costs turns to recruit in every team...

Geoffrey/Volke/Sothe don't really do much either. Stefan could probably drop too. Elincia + Janaff at the top of 5th pick pl0x.

Also, I disagree with Devdan being that low. He's still probably more useful than Brom or Taur, so I don't mind where he is atm. Just so long as Janaff rises. Really, I wasted those turns to get bolting anyway, just for quicker clears of chapter 20/21/22.

Also, Ulki up for 6th pick, as in a team with Janaff or Lethe he can get Demi, so flight saves him, much better than the likes of roflol or Enasir. If you don't have Janaff or Lethe, then don't pick him.

Ike or Mist can trade the forge after recruiting him.

Except their forges are too weak to be of any use, and, like I said, non-ranged weapon forges are in limited supply thanks to a constant need to forge ranged ones.

Hm...You probably have a point there. I only had Titania and Brom as physical rangers, and I was not wasting forges on Javelins for Brom.

What's worse is that I practically warpskip some chapters, so the fact that I need forges is quite worrying.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Kevin

[Anouleth]

I think Janaff is crazily underrated on this tier list. What does Devdan/Taur do that Janaff doesn't? I mean, he flies, has more mov, and he stars transformed so even that isn't too big a problem (he takes, like ~4 turns to untransform. That's 4 turns of exitant combat, whereas taur probably gets none outside of chapter 21, where he sucks because he can't ORKO without being traded a forge (and Marcia/Titania would much rather keep theirs.)

Chapter 21: Tauroneo can ORKO Knights and Generals with a Steel forge, which we have MANY of. In addition, Titania can't ORKO Knights or Generals with a forge until she's about level 17. Marcia needs about 20/14 or 20/16. So what Marcia and Titania would 'rather' do means jack squat because Tauroneo does it better. This isn't even pointing out that if you can induce Tauroneo to proc Resolve (not hard since he starts as an enemy), he tears the place apart. With a Laguz Lance, for instance, he deals about 30/52 damage to Ena.

Problem is that Janaff's combat is just sad. 32 attack at level 19? That's borderline even on 2HKOing Swordmasters. Tauroneo has better combat at base level with the Brave Lance than Janaff does even at max level.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Anouleth

[Zkirsche]

Chapter 21: Tauroneo can ORKO Knights and Generals with a Steel forge, which we have MANY of.

No we don't. I have 2 compatable steel forges going into chapter 21, one is a steel sword forge for Ike, the other is a steel lance forge on Marcia.

In addition, Titania can't ORKO Knights or Generals with a forge until she's about level 17. Marcia needs about 20/14 or 20/16.

My Marcia is level 20/15 IIRC.

So what Marcia and Titania would 'rather' do means jack squat because Tauroneo does it better. This isn't even pointing out that if you can induce Tauroneo to proc Resolve (not hard since he starts as an enemy), he tears the place apart. With a Laguz Lance, for instance, he deals about 30/52 damage to Ena.

Anyone with a mage has no Ena problems. My Calill 2HKO's her with bolting, and it doesn't even have to be a 2HKO - it could be a couple of turns. So that's 4 teams where Ena is a non-problem. Without a mage, you could probably bexp a pally to capped level (considering I wasted about 700 bexp into Calill, perfectly plausable) and use the laguz lance/axe or something to deal better damage and be a better unit in general.

Tauroneo doesn't double many of the enemies, borderline 2HKO's them etc. I'm half tempted to simply kill him off for the exp as after chapter 21 he will have 0 use whatsoever, aside from like, chapter 25 maybe.

Problem is that Janaff's combat is just sad. 32 attack at level 19? That's borderline even on 2HKOing Swordmasters. Tauroneo has better combat at base level with the Brave Lance than Janaff does even at max level.

34 Atk with the energy drop. But of course, he has +2 mov and flight, and since this is a draft PT, that counts a lot. Like I said, Taur doesn't do much aside from 1-2 kills in chapter 21. Z0MG, so good.

I finished in 8 turns on my first attempt, and that couldn't have been reduced by giving Taur a forged lance.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Kevin

[Balcerzak]

I did that map twice and was able to have him avoid enemy contact without a hitch. It's made very easy if you open the door to the chests before recruiting him, but even without that you may just need a decoy up north to distract the Sleep Bishop inside.

...chest room? I have no idea what you're referring to, and how that could possibly relevant to Tauroneo. Do you mean the room with chests 7 and 8? I'm not even sure how that would save him...

Below is a map of roughly my experiences with that map.

Flight plan, first three turns.

Marcia is shoved and smote to the first black dot, then follows the trail of black dots with pocket Ike, depositing him on the blue dot. Tauro and co chokepoint up the area at purple dot. Marcia pushes through.

Option 1, recruit Tauro. Ike falls behind a turn. Marcia will have to trigger purple square reinforce to fight Ena. Tauro can't go west due to orange-square enemies. Tauro can't go east due to purple-square enemies, and possibly surviving mages at upper right of orange box (if 1-2 range counterattack fails).

Option 2, ignore Tauro. Acquire 6 turn completion.

Marcia can also be substituted with Jill, or probably Tanith. Boots on flier assumed. Not sure how scenario plays out without flier.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Balcerzak

[Zkirsche]

Marcia can also be substituted with Jill, or probably Tanith. Boots on flier assumed. Not sure how scenario plays out without flier.

If you're using Reyson, the boots generally go to him, too. Though without a flier, you'd be taking a lot longer (oh hey Janaff, you up for this?)

[Florete]

...chest room? I have no idea what you're referring to, and how that could possibly relevant to Tauroneo. Do you mean the room with chests 7 and 8? I'm not even sure how that would save him...

Yes, that room. Also remember that I had Reyson but no flier otherwise. I drew in Tauroneo with Titania, had Ike recruit him, then moved him into the room, where he was safely out of range of the Sleep staff and any other enemies. Mist and Mordecai were also nearby. This was after the purple square reinforcements had been taken care of (though I don't remember too precisely, but the chest room can be blocked with just one unit anyway).

I beat it in 9 turns, by the way.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire

[Radiant Dragon]

No we don't. I have 2 compatable steel forges going into chapter 21, one is a steel sword forge for Ike, the other is a steel lance forge on Marcia.

We have 8 chances to forge Steel before this chapter, so not having an opportunity to make him a forge isn't a good reason to deny him one. Although some of those will probably be ranged forges when they become available, but you should be able to make him one.

Anyone with a mage has no Ena problems. My Calill 2HKO's her with bolting, and it doesn't even have to be a 2HKO - it could be a couple of turns. So that's 4 teams where Ena is a non-problem.

This is only true if you spent the 2-3 turns to get Bolting in Chapter 16. Without it, Mages are doing significantly less damage to Ena.

@Balcerzak: You can recruit Tauroneo and complete the chapter in 6 turns if Ike has the Knight Ring (yes, I know the Ring costs a turn to obtain, but I'm sure it saves more turns than that in the long run). And keeping him out of combat isn't too hard since enemies prioritize Ike, especially if you let him keep his Spear.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Radiant Dragon

[Anouleth]

No we don't. I have 2 compatable steel forges going into chapter 21, one is a steel sword forge for Ike, the other is a steel lance forge on Marcia.

I find it hard to imagine that any team could run out of forges, especially in draft play where most units can ORKO naturally.

Anyone with a mage has no Ena problems. My Calill 2HKO's her with bolting, and it doesn't even have to be a 2HKO - it could be a couple of turns. So that's 4 teams where Ena is a non-problem. Without a mage, you could probably bexp a pally to capped level (considering I wasted about 700 bexp into Calill, perfectly plausable) and use the laguz lance/axe or something to deal better damage and be a better unit in general.

Then Tauroneo can combo with Calill. Simple. Calill is obviously not going to do the job on her own.

Do you also not understand how spending 700 BEXP (which would also only get a Paladin to level 20/20 if he was 20/18 to begin with) < not spending 700 BEXP?

Tauroneo doesn't double many of the enemies, borderline 2HKO's them etc. I'm half tempted to simply kill him off for the exp as after chapter 21 he will have 0 use whatsoever, aside from like, chapter 25 maybe.

34 Atk with the energy drop. But of course, he has +2 mov and flight, and since this is a draft PT, that counts a lot. Like I said, Taur doesn't do much aside from 1-2 kills in chapter 21. Z0MG, so good.

I finished in 8 turns on my first attempt, and that couldn't have been reduced by giving Taur a forged lance.

Could Janaff have reduced the number of turns in that chapter? Of course not, I mean, he's only even transformed for half of them.

What exactly is Janaff doing, then? I know he has +2 move and flight. I can read. Now tell me how he does not have 0 use himself.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Anouleth

[Florete]

This is only true if you spent the 2-3 turns to get Bolting in Chapter 16. Without it, Mages are doing significantly less damage to Ena.

How quickly can that be beaten? I got the Bolting and cleared on turn 6.

[Zkirsche]

We have 8 chances to forge Steel before this chapter, so not having an opportunity to make him a forge isn't a good reason to deny him one. Although some of those will probably be ranged forges when they become available, but you should be able to make him one.

But I've had to use every single one of them.

This is only true if you spent the 2-3 turns to get Bolting in Chapter 16. Without it, Mages are doing significantly less damage to Ena.

Calill's Meteor still deals decent damage. Liek I said, it might take a few turns to get into the throne room anyway, and you only need to weaken her so that any normal unit can take the kill.

Then Tauroneo can combo with Calill. Simple. Calill is obviously not going to do the job on her own.

But she is doing it on her own. She did it on her own.

Do you also not understand how spending 700 BEXP (which would also only get a Paladin to level 20/20 if he was 20/18 to begin with) < not spending 700 BEXP?

Not when there's nowhere else to put it. You have to spend it at some point and with a flier, you're quickly going to find only 1-2 units actually receive combat. Even with pallys that's probably true.

I find it hard to imagine that any team could run out of forges, especially in draft play where most units can ORKO naturally.

I equipped it for Knight/generals, as if there's just one or two in the area, normal weapons don't cut it.

Could Janaff have reduced the number of turns in that chapter? Of course not, I mean, he's only even transformed for half of them.

What exactly is Janaff doing, then? I know he has +2 move and flight. I can read. Now tell me how he does not have 0 use himself.

He can keep up with reyson so he can get ~2 kills per turn. Which matter (aka: aren't flanking enemies which are a non-problem aka teh only enemies Taur even touches.)

Edited January 21, 2011 by Kevin

[Radiant Dragon]

How quickly can that be beaten? I got the Bolting and cleared on turn 6.

Chapter 16 can be completed in 4 turns, so I guess it's only 2 turns then.

Calill's Meteor still deals decent damage. Liek I said, it might take a few turns to get into the throne room anyway, and you only need to weaken her so that any normal unit can take the kill.

Ena has 25 res and 18 speed, right? A level 10 Calill with a Spirit Dust and Speedwings only deals 9 damage and doesn't double with Meteor.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Radiant Dragon

[Krad]

I haven't really read all of the posts, but if it helps somehow, waiting on any of the river tiles in C21 with a flier will not lure Taur and buddies, so there's really no much need to take any of them out, or even bother with Tauroneo. I used this strategy in my 5 turn clear of C21.

Calill's Meteor still deals decent damage. Liek I said, it might take a few turns to get into the throne room anyway, and you only need to weaken her so that any normal unit can take the kill.

Too much weakening and Ena will Elixir back to full health.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Krad

[Balcerzak]

Yes, that room. Also remember that I had Reyson but no flier otherwise. I drew in Tauroneo with Titania, had Ike recruit him, then moved him into the room, where he was safely out of range of the Sleep staff and any other enemies. Mist and Mordecai were also nearby. This was after the purple square reinforcements had been taken care of (though I don't remember too precisely, but the chest room can be blocked with just one unit anyway).

I beat it in 9 turns, by the way.

Hmmm. Yeah, with a land based team you definitely have to go slower, and if you trigger the purple along the way so you can kill them before reaching Tauro, I guess recruitment may be viable. I did preface my first Big T comment with flight-skip assumption though.

@Balcerzak: You can recruit Tauroneo and complete the chapter in 6 turns if Ike has the Knight Ring (yes, I know the Ring costs a turn to obtain, but I'm sure it saves more turns than that in the long run). And keeping him out of combat isn't too hard since enemies prioritize Ike, especially if you let him keep his Spear.

Okay, knight-ring definitely solves the Ike falling behind problem, but I'm still a little iffy on Tauro getting attacked. You could be right, maybe I just gave up before I found an elegant solution.

How quickly can that be beaten? I got the Bolting and cleared on turn 6.

The fastest conceivable clear for Ch16 I can think of is 4 turns.

[Zkirsche]

Too much weakening and Ena will Elixir back to full health.

then don't weaken her too much ;)

[Anouleth]

But I've had to use every single one of them.

I can't imagine how. I never personally run out of forges.

Calill's Meteor still deals decent damage. Liek I said, it might take a few turns to get into the throne room anyway, and you only need to weaken her so that any normal unit can take the kill.

Even a max level Calill with a Spirit Dust only deals 12/52 damage to Ena. Most units are incapable of finishing that off. 23 strength w/Laguz Lance or 21 strength with Laguz Axe, so Oscar/Titania/Astrid/Marcia/Tanith are ruled out. In fact, Ena's natural regen is about 10, so Calill barely even overcomes natural regeneration.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Anouleth

[Zkirsche]

I can't imagine how. I never personally run out of forges.

Because you're not condensing everything into one forge at a time.

Edit: not to mention that this is attempting for max efficiency anyway, so forges are even more needed to clear out enemies.

Even a max level Calill with a Spirit Dust only deals 12/52 damage to Ena. Most units are incapable of finishing that off. 23 strength w/Laguz Lance or 21 strength with Laguz Axe, so Oscar/Titania/Astrid/Marcia/Tanith are ruled out. In fact, Ena's natural regen is about 10, so Calill barely even overcomes natural regeneration.

My Marcia has 23 str going into chapter 21 so more underestimates of levels and stats going on here.

Also, I editted my previous post btw.

Chapter 16 can be completed in 4 turns, so I guess it's only 2 turns then.

I could've done it in 5 had I dropped Ike. So just the 1.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Kevin

[Radiant Dragon]

But she is doing it on her own. She did it on her own.

What level was your Calill? Because to double Ena with Bolting, she needs to be level 16 or so and have gotten a Speedwings. Although, a Level 16 Calill with 11 str, 25 (after Spirit Dust) mag, and 24 (after Speedwings) spd ORKO's Ena with Bolting...

[Anouleth]

Because you're not condensing everything into one forge at a time.

I don't understand what this means.

Edit: not to mention that this is attempting for max efficiency anyway, so forges are even more needed to clear out enemies.

Implying I don't play efficiently? Forges are just useless in many chapters. Like, how many forge uses are you going to use in Chapter 19 (lol unpromoted enemies) or Chapter 14/15 (make a beeline for the boss and kill him) or Chapter 20 (remove Shihiram with a siege tome, a flying unit Arrives). Especially since this is a draft run, many characters can 1-round without a forge.

This is digressing, anyway. Tauroneo can 1-round Armours, whether he uses an Armourslayer or a forge or Resolve to do it. Janaff cannot, ever, as if it mattered when he's about to untransform when he reaches the throne room anyway.

My Marcia has 23 str going into chapter 21 so more underestimates of levels and stats going on here.

Also, I editted my previous post btw.

Quite frankly, I'm sick of hearing about 'your Marcia'. Apparently, she was level 20/15, and Marcia's 20/15 average for strength is 21.6, not 23. Good for you, Marcia was strength-blessed.

[Radiant Dragon]

Quite frankly, I'm sick of hearing about 'your Marcia'. Apparently, she was level 20/15, and Marcia's 20/15 average for strength is 21.6, not 23. Good for you, Marcia was strength-blessed.

Actually, I think he just gave her the Energy Drop, since the draft was on Fixed Mode.

[Zkirsche]

What level was your Calill? Because to double Ena with Bolting, she needs to be level 16 or so and have gotten a Speedwings. Although, a Level 16 Calill with 11 str, 25 (after Spirit Dust) mag, and 24 (after Speedwings) spd ORKO's Ena with Bolting...

Not ORKO 2HKO, she did it on her own because it takes more than two turns to get into the throneroom. (That and I have reyson, but he's not necessary). She simply needs 23 mag (and a spirit dust) to do it.

I don't understand what this means.

Don't worry, that was a mistake anyway, got stuff confused in my head lol.

Implying I don't play efficiently?

No, this is max efficiency with a restricted team, unlike a normal team. In this, because of a lack of PP action, you need to be able to ORKO constantly on the enemy phase, so if there's a pesky knight that needs KO'ing, I need the forge.

how many forge uses are you going to use in Chapter 19 (lol unpromoted enemies) or Chapter 14/15 (make a beeline for the boss and kill him) or Chapter 20 (remove Shihiram with a siege tome, a flying unit Arrives).

Except these didn't even go into the point because I bumrushed them. Thing is, I bumrushed them and still ended up with a forge crisis.

whether he uses an Armourslayer or a forge or Resolve to do it.

Armourslayer costs me a chest key (which did matter, as I couldn't get wrath afterwards), I've already talked about forges and taking him down to resolve level is annoying and takes even more turns.

Quite frankly, I'm sick of hearing about 'your Marcia'. Apparently, she was level 20/15, and Marcia's 20/15 average for strength is 21.6, not 23. Good for you, Marcia was strength-blessed.

This is fixed mode - "blessed" does not exist. What I did was smartly give her a fighter band for a majority (if not all of her) levels, and along with the +20 base str she gets because its fixed mode, 23 str is very plausable.

And this is the type of PT where actually doing it will show you how necessary flight, high mov, great PP etc all are. So sorry, but I'm going to use the levels I obtained because I know, for a FACT, that they are atainable and generally know where I can improve things.

Actually, I think he just gave her the Energy Drop, since the draft was on Fixed Mode.

No, the energy drop I gave to Janaff, unless there's two.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Kevin

[Anouleth]

No, this is max efficiency with a restricted team, unlike a normal team. In this, because of a lack of PP action, you need to be able to ORKO constantly on the enemy phase, so if there's a pesky knight that needs KO'ing, I need the forge.

Almost never. Knights are fantastically uncommon in this game.

Except these didn't even go into the point because I bumrushed them. Thing is, I bumrushed them and still ended up with a forge crisis.

Which I think is bordering on impossible. You would need to burn through forges at a ridiculous rate. Like, 80 uses per chapter. I doubt there are even enough enemies to do that.

Armourslayer costs me a chest key (which did matter, as I couldn't get wrath afterwards), I've already talked about forges and taking him down to resolve level is annoying and takes even more turns.

It takes zero turns. Tauroneo will attack your units of his own accord. I did it by accident.

I still disagree about forges.

And this is the type of PT where actually doing it will show you how necessary flight, high mov, great PP etc all are. So sorry, but I'm going to use the levels I obtained because I know, for a FACT, that they are atainable and generally know where I can improve things.

I'm not disagreeing with your levels. In fact, I've gotten Marcia to a similar level before myself, so there's no need to be so defensive.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Anouleth