[FE9] PoR Draft Tourney Tier List

[Florete]

Lucia should rise a bit. Why? 12 magic and a pretty easy spirit dust. With A swords, she's a very good candidate for the SS and RS, and will use it better than most other characters.

Yes, her availability is horrible. I understand. However, a very powerful 1-2 range is pretty good when we need to rout (C24), helps out a lot against laguz in the last chapters, and honestly, are you going to need to use the dust or Mage band at that point? I don't see the resource inefficiency here apart from maybe 200 BEXP, which is quite frankly, chump change.

One Spirit Dust is in a chest and may easily be skipped for better items considering at least 3/5 teams won't have a Thief. The other could easily go to a Mage, Mist, or Rhys, considering how many (6 before Bastian) of those there are. Mage Band isn't a problem to use, but she doesn't have many levels to grow as it is (also consider just how much BEXP she'll cost you). Justifying the use of 1-2 range Swords shouldn't be tough considering her relatively high Magic, but any boosting to it is a bit more tricky.

[Anouleth]

One Spirit Dust is in a chest and may easily be skipped for better items considering at least 3/5 teams won't have a Thief. The other could easily go to a Mage, Mist, or Rhys, considering how many (6 before Bastian) of those there are. Mage Band isn't a problem to use, but she doesn't have many levels to grow as it is (also consider just how much BEXP she'll cost you). Justifying the use of 1-2 range Swords shouldn't be tough considering her relatively high Magic, but any boosting to it is a bit more tricky.

Yeah, when you consider the Chapter 14 Dust has to sit in the Convoy for eleven chapters before we even have an opportunity to give it to Lucia, she looks to be near the bottom of the priority list. I guess Soren doesn't really have much need for it, though. Even Bastian is competition because his magic is so bad.

Chapter 22 Dust might as well not exist. Not only is this a chapter that is beatable in two turns, but if we don't have a thief, we need to squander a valuable Chest Key to get it.

[Florete]

Chapter 22 Dust might as well not exist. Not only is this a chapter that is beatable in two turns, but if we don't have a thief, we need to squander a valuable Chest Key to get it.

22 is technically beatable in one turn with Reyson or a Sage that can have 22 AS with Meteor or Bolting.

[Anouleth]

22 is technically beatable in one turn with Reyson or a Sage that can have 22 AS with Meteor or Bolting.

Well, you'd need Reyson + a sage for a 1-turn. That won't always happen. Much more likely to be able to pull off the 2-turn, I think, since I'm pretty sure you can reach Schaeffer with a 9 move unit in two turns even without Reyson.

I don't think it's very likely that anyone would have 22as with Meteor. Even Tormod, the fastest siege tome user, needs to be level 20/16. Ilyana never reaches 20 speed, and Soren will never have 5 strength (and even if he did he'd need capped speed).

[Zkirsche]

I don't think it's very likely that anyone would have 22as with Meteor.

BEXP Calill.

I've saved all of my bexp since chapter 15 just for that purpose...

Though it probably cost me a turn on chapter 18, I'm redoing that chapter anyway. So meh. :/

[Florete]

Well, you'd need Reyson + a sage for a 1-turn. That won't always happen. Much more likely to be able to pull off the 2-turn, I think, since I'm pretty sure you can reach Schaeffer with a 9 move unit in two turns even without Reyson.

I don't think it's very likely that anyone would have 22as with Meteor. Even Tormod, the fastest siege tome user, needs to be level 20/16. Ilyana never reaches 20 speed, and Soren will never have 5 strength (and even if he did he'd need capped speed).

Yeah, I meant to say Reyson + Sage.

With proper Band usage and an Energy Drop or Speedwing (in a draft he ought to be able to get at least one, especially considering what it can do), Tormod can probably reach it by 20/11 or 20/12. It's high, even for a draft, but it should be doable without costing turns.

One turn probably isn't likely enough to be considered in this tier setting, though. You're right on that much.

EDIT: And yeah, forgot Calill.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Yui

[Fayt Zelpher]

Soren does have a spd% chance of Adept proc, and will ORKO that way. But ~25% chance isn't exactly much to count on either...

[Florete]

Soren does have a spd% chance of Adept proc, and will ORKO that way. But ~25% chance isn't exactly much to count on either...

It's Skl% in PoR, actually. But yeah, I didn't think of that. There's also an acquirable Adept in 17-4 that people have gotten without losing turns. Given that this actually matters so much, would resetting for the Adept proc be valid here? I imagine the draft player would probably do so considering it's just the first turn.

[Anouleth]

It's Skl% in PoR, actually. But yeah, I didn't think of that. There's also an acquirable Adept in 17-4 that people have gotten without losing turns. Given that this actually matters so much, would resetting for the Adept proc be valid here? I imagine the draft player would probably do so considering it's just the first turn.

I would rather not let RNG manipulation be allowed.

[Xander]

I take it it's unanimous that Rolf moves below Ulki?

Would it be absurd to suggest Rolf go to the bottom of the tier list, below Ena?

Obviously Rolf is around for longer, and has more than 2 chapters with the team, but can you name one instance in which he's saving a single turn? I for one can't. He can't shove or rescue, and he takes bonus experience away from your other team members. Ena or Nasir don't need any bonus experience at all and have the con needed to shove and rescue, not to mention they are forced in the final chapter, so if drafted you don't have to go through the trouble of trying to keep them from getting attacked. Sure, Rolf has ~20 chapters of availability, but what is he contributing in those 20 chapters? No enemy phase means in route maps you have to keep him away from enemy exposure so as not to get surrounded. Honestly, in the 2 chapters that Ena is around to shove Marcia/Jill to get a faster clear I believe she's contributing more than Rolf is in his entire existence.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Xander

[Anouleth]

I take it it's unanimous that Rolf moves below Ulki?

Would it be absurd to suggest Rolf go to the bottom of the tier list, below Ena?

Obviously Rolf is around for longer, and has more than 2 chapters with the team, but can you name one instance in which he's saving a single turn? I for one can't. He can't shove or rescue, and he takes bonus experience away from your other team members. Ena or Nasir don't need any bonus experience at all and have the con needed to shove and rescue, not to mention they are forced in the final chapter, so if drafted you don't have to go through the trouble of trying to keep them from getting attacked. Sure, Rolf has ~20 chapters of availability, but what is he contributing in those 20 chapters? No enemy phase means in route maps you have to keep him away from enemy exposure so as not to get surrounded. Honestly, in the 2 chapters that Ena is around to shove Marcia/Jill to get a faster clear I believe she's contributing more than Rolf is in his entire existence.

bluh bluh bluh takes bonus experience away

You have sooooo much bonus experience in this format. Did you hear that Kevin had enough to take Calill all the way up to 22AS with Meteor? You quite literally have enough BEXP that you can make every single person on your team a ORKOing master (with a few irredeemable exceptions). That's what happens when you're splitting all of your experience between four or five people.

Chances are, the BEXP that goes to Rolf would do nothing elsewhere. Other people should be ORKOing.

[Xander]

In my run my Marcia was one strength point away from being able to 3 turn 17-1, and I could have used the bexp Id given Rolf to give her that point, so there is alot of bexp, but it isn't. Either way, when does Rolf help do anything to save turns?

[Anouleth]

In my run my Marcia was one strength point away from being able to 3 turn 17-1, and I could have used the bexp Id given Rolf to give her that point, so there is alot of bexp, but it isn't. Either way, when does Rolf help do anything to save turns?

He can actually kill stuff with some effort, which is more than Ena ever does. You don't have to give Rolf BEXP because you picked him, and the fact is that you failing to 3 turn 17-1 was your fault for using your BEXP improperly, not because of Rolf.

Rolf is probably never going to save you turns. But Ena is definitely never going to save you turns. She's useless for four turns, and then she transforms and she's still useless because she has 35ATK/19AS and 6 move and no 1-2 range.

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, she can shove on turn 1. Only 11 wt, though (thank goodness this game uses wt to shove rather than con, yes I know RD's way probably makes more sense I just don't care).

She can certainly shove a lot more than Rolf can that turn. I think Rolf has 5 con and 6 wt at promotion. 5 wt gap.

But yeah, there is plenty of bexp and as long as you prioritize your other units along the way, there should be left over bexp to send Rolf's way that will eventually make him able to kill stuff reliably on player phase and yet not hurt your other units' level gains.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Narga_Rocks

[Kaoz]

It's Skl% in PoR, actually. But yeah, I didn't think of that. There's also an acquirable Adept in 17-4 that people have gotten without losing turns. Given that this actually matters so much, would resetting for the Adept proc be valid here? I imagine the draft player would probably do so considering it's just the first turn.

I would rather not let RNG manipulation be allowed.

The draft player might reset for that Adept proc, but RNG manipulation is definately not assumed for this list.

I take it it's unanimous that Rolf moves below Ulki?

Rolf below Ulki? Well, I guess I can see that. I wouldn't necessarily say it's clear as day, but no one else had any objections, so Rolf goes down.

Would it be absurd to suggest Rolf go to the bottom of the tier list, below Ena?

Yes.

Obviously Rolf is around for longer, and has more than 2 chapters with the team, but can you name one instance in which he's saving a single turn? I for one can't. He can't shove or rescue, and he takes bonus experience away from your other team members.

I'm not done with my own run yet, but theoretically, he could help in any chapter with flying enemies (I admit, there aren't that many). On the other hand, I can't think of an instance where Ena is saving me any turns either. The BEXP thing is wong and disproven by Anouleth, but I'll get into that again below.

Ena or Nasir don't need any bonus experience at all and have the con needed to shove and rescue, not to mention they are forced in the final chapter, so if drafted you don't have to go through the trouble of trying to keep them from getting attacked.

In the chapters they are available in, you'll have a team of (mostly) awesome units, so preventing the enemy from attacking Ena shouldn't be a problem. The fact that they don't "need" BEXP doesn't really matter as they only have 5 move and probably wouldn't reach any enemies to begin with.

Sure, Rolf has ~20 chapters of availability, but what is he contributing in those 20 chapters? No enemy phase means in route maps you have to keep him away from enemy exposure so as not to get surrounded. Honestly, in the 2 chapters that Ena is around to shove Marcia/Jill to get a faster clear I believe she's contributing more than Rolf is in his entire existence.

For starters, Ena can't shove Marcia, Jill, Tanith when I'm not very much mistaken. Even if she could, it'd only be on turn 1 and it probably doesn't make a difference. That being said, there are only 5 Rout maps after Rolf joins (12, 17-1, 18, 20, 25... well ok, I'll count 13 too, so 6 maps), so your point regarding that is pretty moot. What can Rolf do? Well, he could combine for kills with your slower units (Brom, Gatrie), or shoot Wyverns/Hawks/Crows. At least the Wyvern shooting is important in chapter 18, depending on your team it might be in 20 and possibly 25 as well. I admit that it's not much, but it's SOMETHING.

In my run my Marcia was one strength point away from being able to 3 turn 17-1, and I could have used the bexp Id given Rolf to give her that point, so there is alot of bexp, but it isn't.

To put it simple, you spent your BEXP wrong then. When we're using the current runs as indication, I just finished chapter 16 today, currently my team consists of:

Lv 18/-- Ike

Lv --/08 Titania

Lv 20/06 Zihark

Lv 20/07 Jill (ORKO'd both Muarim and Kiimarsi)

Lv 09 Muarim

Lv 01/-- Rolf

As you can see, I didn't give Rolf any BEXP at all yet, he gained some CEXP from shooting Crows though. And get this, I currently have more than 1600 BEXP left. In other words, there is a lot of BEXP in this game, you just have to give it to the right units at the right time. Giving Rolf any BEXP wouldn't have saved me turns (or made the chapters any easier) yet, so I didn't. I remember though that there are those annoying Wyvern Knights in Daein, and I'm going to guess that Rolf will be able to do something there.

Fact of the matter is, availability is an important thing in PoR because most units can be decent rather easily. Ena has 2 chapters of availability and she isn't even good in them.

[Balcerzak]

Well, you'd need Reyson + a sage for a 1-turn. That won't always happen. Much more likely to be able to pull off the 2-turn, I think, since I'm pretty sure you can reach Schaeffer with a 9 move unit in two turns even without Reyson.

I don't think it's very likely that anyone would have 22as with Meteor. Even Tormod, the fastest siege tome user, needs to be level 20/16. Ilyana never reaches 20 speed, and Soren will never have 5 strength (and even if he did he'd need capped speed).

Also worth noting is that an 11 Move unit with canto and 1-2 range can be Smote or double Shoved into position to counter kill after clearing out the blockage 2 squares directly below the Boss. You'll need to clear out some scrubs in the way, but that's certainly manageable, at least on Normal, and I don't think things changed that much in the transition to HM.

Re: Ena and Shove. I know she can if you give her the Demi-band and she's transformed at the start of the map.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Balcerzak

[Narga_Rocks]

For starters, Ena can't shove Marcia, Jill, Tanith when I'm not very much mistaken. Even if she could, it'd only be on turn 1 and it probably doesn't make a difference. That being said, there are only 5 Rout maps after Rolf joins (12, 17-1, 18, 20, 25... well ok, I'll count 13 too, so 6 maps), so your point regarding that is pretty moot. What can Rolf do? Well, he could combine for kills with your slower units (Brom, Gatrie), or shoot Wyverns/Hawks/Crows. At least the Wyvern shooting is important in chapter 18, depending on your team it might be in 20 and possibly 25 as well. I admit that it's not much, but it's SOMETHING.

Well. Demiband Ena should have a LOT of wt. She starts with 6 con, 11 wt. Gets +12 con on transformation, so that's 23, but there is also a large +wt gain on transformation that isn't listed on this site. I have no idea just how high it goes, but it's bound to get high enough to shove the pegs. I think they have 24 and 25 wt. Even without any extra wt from what the site says, she can already shove Marcia and Tanith. Though yeah it's only turn 1.

Granted, this would assume you don't have any of the other laguz. Even Ulki is probably better for the demiband than Ena.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Narga_Rocks

[Balcerzak]

Well. Demiband Ena should have a LOT of wt. She starts with 6 con, 11 wt. Gets +12 con on transformation, so that's 23, but there is also a large +wt gain on transformation that isn't listed on this site. I have no idea just how high it goes, but it's bound to get high enough to shove the pegs. I think they have 24 and 25 wt. Even without any extra wt from what the site says, she can already shove Marcia and Tanith. Though yeah it's only turn 1.

Granted, this would assume you don't have any of the other laguz. Even Ulki is probably better for the demiband than Ena.

Any of the late-transforming Laguz. Janaff and Lethe certainly don't need demi, and Ranulf probably prefers full stats as well.

Mordy, Maurim, or Ulki, though... yeah, they might want it. Depending on the map though, their assistance may not be needed, and a shove may be more useful. Specifically on Ch28, where you're pushing people so they can fly across the forest faster or further to perform dropoffs, and your land-based crew are essentially useless. In Final, there's no turn 1 action anyway and they're free to Gem up.

[Anouleth]

Any of the late-transforming Laguz. Janaff and Lethe certainly don't need demi, and Ranulf probably prefers full stats as well.

Mordy, Maurim, or Ulki, though... yeah, they might want it. Depending on the map though, their assistance may not be needed, and a shove may be more useful. Specifically on Ch28, where you're pushing people so they can fly across the forest faster or further to perform dropoffs, and your land-based crew are essentially useless. In Final, there's no turn 1 action anyway and they're free to Gem up.

I would rather use my Laguz Stones in maps where the extra stats can actually make a difference, like in Chapter 25.

Well. Demiband Ena should have a LOT of wt. She starts with 6 con, 11 wt. Gets +12 con on transformation, so that's 23, but there is also a large +wt gain on transformation that isn't listed on this site. I have no idea just how high it goes, but it's bound to get high enough to shove the pegs. I think they have 24 and 25 wt. Even without any extra wt from what the site says, she can already shove Marcia and Tanith. Though yeah it's only turn 1.

Granted, this would assume you don't have any of the other laguz. Even Ulki is probably better for the demiband than Ena.

Ena has 18 con / 44 wt as a boss, and I can't imagine it varying much when she's a playable character. Which is even enough to shove fatasses like Haar.

[Zkirsche]

Did you hear that Kevin had enough to take Calill all the way up to 22AS with Meteor? You quite literally have enough BEXP that you can make every single person on your team a ORKOing master (with a few irredeemable exceptions). That's what happens when you're splitting all of your experience between four or five people.

I actually had enough to take her to 20/20 completely.

Also, I argued Janaff up earlier. Any thoughts?

[Narga_Rocks]

Ena has 18 con / 44 wt as a boss, and I can't imagine it varying much when she's a playable character. Which is even enough to shove fatasses like Haar.

Her class stays the same so it should be the same wt. She's got 6 + 12 con so 18, just like you said she has as a boss. So there is a +26 wt modifier (apparently) for Red Dragon(F). Thus she'd have 44 wt when transformed. And yeah, that shoves everyone except Giffca (and I suppose the enemy dragons. And Nasir, but you can't have both him and Ena without cheating anyway. And Ashy).

[Florete]

Brom and Gatrie need to drop one or two tiers each.

Depending on your team, it's possible to 3 turn chapter 10, and I doubt you could get Brom in that time frame. He will not make up any turns taken to recruit him unless you have Kieran on your team as well (in which case he simply isn't in a hole). His mobility is too horrible (even on my Titania + Mist as mounted units draft), his Str is too average, and his Spd is too crappy to be worth anything in this kind of run. All he does is self-improvement and occasional backup. He should at least go below Janaff who's flight can be helpful.

Gatrie is much the same, but at least he helps early on. However, his Spd is even more problematic and he otherwise has the same mobility problem.

Not too sure about Tauroneo. He probably ought to stick near Brom.

[Balcerzak]

Not too sure about Tauroneo. He probably ought to stick near Brom.

Drafting Big T means you don't have to worry about him getting attacked after you recruit him (and he likely will), and since he clogs up the passage and prevents Ike from easily getting through, that can probably save you a turn, or at least some hassle. Whether he can actually do anything with his combat (Resolve?), I have no idea on, but this at least was my input on his situation. Of course this is coming from a "I use Marcia to drop Ike over the river and skip most of the map" perspective too.

[Florete]

Drafting Big T means you don't have to worry about him getting attacked after you recruit him (and he likely will), and since he clogs up the passage and prevents Ike from easily getting through, that can probably save you a turn, or at least some hassle. Whether he can actually do anything with his combat (Resolve?), I have no idea on, but this at least was my input on his situation. Of course this is coming from a "I use Marcia to drop Ike over the river and skip most of the map" perspective too.

I did that map twice and was able to have him avoid enemy contact without a hitch. It's made very easy if you open the door to the chests before recruiting him, but even without that you may just need a decoy up north to distract the Sleep Bishop inside.

[Zkirsche]

I think Janaff is crazily underrated on this tier list. What does Devdan/Taur do that Janaff doesn't? I mean, he flies, has more mov, and he stars transformed so even that isn't too big a problem (he takes, like ~4 turns to untransform. That's 4 turns of exitant combat, whereas taur probably gets none outside of chapter 21, where he sucks because he can't ORKO without being traded a forge (and Marcia/Titania would much rather keep theirs.)

Edited January 21, 2011 by Kevin