Best/Worst in the Series: Round 72

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, I was about to go back and change that to 'unless you're limiting yourself to swordies only', but I didn't bother.

edit: then again, there are still bosses that even goddamn Rutger has shaky hit on. Like Gel. Maybe if you went Ilia instead of Sacae.

And using only iron lance/killing edge on sword users. That generally gets me 80+ hit, sometimes 90. And early on Marcus is pretty deadly with an iron axe on lance users. 2 or 3 HKO and 90+ hit.

Sure, hit against bosses suck. You also frequently need crits from the various killing weapons to beat them in anything less than 3 rounds. But it's better to only have shaky hit against one enemy per map than nearly every single enemy per map. Also it's a lot easier to make sure you'll survive misses while fighting a boss than it is to make sure you'll survive every single miss you could go through on the map caused by your 50% hit wonderboys.

[Darros]

Best is FE9 Boyd then.

...Worst is still Gheb.

[grandjackal]

You can either vote for either FE3!Barst or FE11!Barst (in accordance with the rules stated in the first post), so make your mind up or your vote'll be disqualified!

Posted edited, going with FE11 Barst.

[Dark Sage]

Of all the times I've played FE6 HM, Lot consistently had around 57-62 hit with a Halberd on a Lance cav on Chapter 4 and OHKO'd them. He may get doubled, but he can still take a couple of hits and smile, so he's 2RKO'd like Roy, Wolt and on occasion, Lance and Alan (depends on levels of course).

This gives Lot lots of utility already as he's in practice not doing any worse than lolRoy and your cavs. Keep in mind your cavs are top tier and Lot's forced anyway. His swings with an axe in Chapter 5 cost nothing and he's always contributing. He'll get good durability and has good supports and overall is pretty useful.

I also lol at Fir>Lot. Maybe the Isles but after that, WTD + poor durability makes me bench her after the isles.

Also prettiness is not a good indicator. For instance, I like Cath and Ray, who are relatively good looking, but they are far inferior to Gonzales, who is epic.

Gonzales is a little adorable to me actually.

[Florete]

I also lol at Fir>Lot. Maybe the Isles but after that, WTD + poor durability makes me bench her after the isles.

Oh?

-Upper Mid-

...

Fir

Lot

[Shadow Mir]

Of all the times I've played FE6 HM, Lot consistently had around 57-62 hit with a Halberd on a Lance cav on Chapter 4 and OHKO'd them. He may get doubled, but he can still take a couple of hits and smile, so he's 2RKO'd like Roy, Wolt and on occasion, Lance and Alan (depends on levels of course).

This gives Lot lots of utility already as he's in practice not doing any worse than lolRoy and your cavs. Keep in mind your cavs are top tier and Lot's forced anyway. His swings with an axe in Chapter 5 cost nothing and he's always contributing. He'll get good durability and has good supports and overall is pretty useful.

I also lol at Fir>Lot. Maybe the Isles but after that, WTD + poor durability makes me bench her after the isles.

Also prettiness is not a good indicator. For instance, I like Cath and Ray, who are relatively good looking, but they are far inferior to Gonzales, who is epic.

Gonzales is a little adorable to me actually.

I fail to see how Gonzales is epic, really. I HATE having to deal with his incessant missing - it drives me nuts!

[Dark Sage]

Speed and damage. And HM bonuses.

That's the general idea anyway. The idea is that his hit issues are easier to solve because the Secret Book isn't high in demand and he can use it to boost his skill to relatively acceptable levels. And the doubling allows for an increase of true hit and WTA boosts it even further. Plus instant Killers/Halberds/Hammers.

If you take B route, you can toss him a skill book and instant promote him for 30% crit. Either way, he'll never get doubled and he can sit on peaks all day if you want to avoid and deal good damage.

@Yui: I disagree, but eh.

[Florete]

Speed and damage. And HM bonuses.

That's the general idea anyway. The idea is that his hit issues are easier to solve because the Secret Book isn't high in demand and he can use it to boost his skill to relatively acceptable levels. And the doubling allows for an increase of true hit and WTA boosts it even further. Plus instant Killers/Halberds/Hammers.

If you take B route, you can toss him a skill book and instant promote him for 30% crit. Either way, he'll never get doubled and he can sit on peaks all day if you want to avoid and deal good damage.

Secret Book is only 4 Hit. It'll help, but it's not turning any heads. Personally, I'd rather give it to someone who tends to be more borderline on reliability than someone who will miss just as much anyway, or sell it 4k.

[Shadow Mir]

Speed and damage. And HM bonuses.

That's the general idea anyway. The idea is that his hit issues are easier to solve because the Secret Book isn't high in demand and he can use it to boost his skill to relatively acceptable levels. And the doubling allows for an increase of true hit and WTA boosts it even further. Plus instant Killers/Halberds/Hammers.

If you take B route, you can toss him a skill book and instant promote him for 30% crit. Either way, he'll never get doubled and he can sit on peaks all day if you want to avoid and deal good damage.

@Yui: I disagree, but eh.

None of that makes me think he doesn't suck, to be blunt... Because axes suck massively in FE6. And Halberds and Hammers on someone who has enough trouble hitting already? *Tidus laugh* And early promotion is something I generally look down on. Plus, the Secret Book won't help Gonzo much anyhow.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Malik Maxwell

[Gaggle of Geese]

I love axes. My personal favorite is probably Dart. By the time I had reached the final chapter, I'm pretty sure he had maxed STR and SPD. And he was wielding the Basilikos. He was actually doing significant damage against the fire dragon. It was nuts.

I also really like Barst. He's the best axe-wielder in the original, as well as its remakes. This is significant in 1 and 3, because before the weapons triangle, axe-wielders really got the short end of the stick. One of these days, I'm going to do a run of the original Famicom FE, and I'm going to include Barst in my team.

And I never even mentioned Geese once. Go figure.

As for the worst, It would have to be Wade or Bord/Saji. I'm inclined to go with the latter, for reasons stated above. In Wade's case, it's at least feasible to use him long-term, whereas Bord/Saji is not only too slow, but is also a bad class in two of the games he's in.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Flock of Geese

[Shadow Mir]

I love axes. My personal favorite is probably Dart. By the time I had reached the final chapter, I'm pretty sure he had maxed STR and SPD. And he was wielding the Basilikos. He was actually doing significant damage against the fire dragon. It was nuts.

I also really like Barst. He's the best axe-wielder in the original, as well as its remakes. This is significant in 1 and 3, because before the weapons triangle, axe-wielders really got the short end of the stick. One of these days, I'm going to do a run of the original Famicom FE, and I'm going to include Barst in my team.

And I never even mentioned Geese once. Go figure.

To be honest, IMO, axe wielders have had the short stick even after the weapon triangle (case in point: FE4 and FE6). Also, if you ask me, axes didn't get out of their slump of suckage until Path of Radiance.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Malik Maxwell

[Junkhead]

I would like you to say that once you actually play through some of the HM earlygame chapters, and see if you keep saying the same.

[Gaggle of Geese]

To be honest, IMO, axe wielders have had the short stick even after the weapon triangle (case in point: FE4 and FE6). Also, if you ask me, axes didn't get out of their slump of suckage until Path of Radiance.

Really? I think they started getting decent in FE7. I still have yet to play PoR or RD. I'm too busy with FE4.

Also, Eclipse? I disagree with you about Cord. Cord at least has speed--Bord doesn't even have that. I never end up using him, but I'd say he's second best to Barst in his native game. Not that that's saying much for FE1&3...

[Shadow Mir]

Really? I think they started getting decent in FE7. I still have yet to play PoR or RD. I'm too busy with FE4.

Maybe... Too bad that you can't say the same for their mainers besides Hector and Geitz.

[Florete]

Maybe... Too bad that you can't say the same for their mainers besides Hector and Geitz.

Dart is pretty good if given some levels. Also depends on if you can handle the price tag for promotion.

[Junkhead]

Lol@Ritchercomepletelyignoringmypoint

[Shadow Mir]

Dart is pretty good if given some levels. Also depends on if you can handle the price tag for promotion.

I can't stand axe-locked units who can't hit the broad side of a barn - their incessant missing pisses me off big time. And Dart's skill getting nowhere fast hurts his case even more.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Malik Maxwell

[Florete]

I can't stand axe-loxcked units who can't hit the broad side of a barn - their incessant missing pisses me off big time.

FE7 being heavy on slow lance users with 0 Luck kinda helps it, though.

[Narga_Rocks]

Plus there is Marcus in both games and Dieck in fe6. I guess Raven with hand axes in fe7, too, though I think he loses AS from them. He has more spd than Dieck to begin with and enemies are slower in fe7, though.

Also, killer axes aren't exactly bad in fe7. 65% hit isn't the greatest, but against lance users with units not named "Gonzales" they are rather accurate. Even Gonzales has something approaching accuracy with killers against lance users.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Narga_Rocks

[Silvercrow]

It's weird, because it seemed like IS actually made an effort to make Axes (or at least axe-users) better in FE5, where you get Othin, Halvan, and Brighton who are all excellent axe users. Then they just got really crappy again in FE6.

[Shadow Mir]

FE7 being heavy on slow lance users with 0 Luck kinda helps it, though.

Plus there is Marcus in both games and Dieck in fe6. I guess Raven with hand axes in fe7, too, though I think he loses AS from them. He has more spd than Dieck to begin with and enemies are slower in fe7, though.

Also, killer axes aren't exactly bad in fe7. 65% hit isn't the greatest, but against lance users with units not named "Gonzales" they are rather accurate. Even Gonzales has something approaching accuracy with killers against lance users.

Unreliable hit, I hate it. And I HATE axe-locked units who can't get reliable hit the majority of the time - it drives me up a wall.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Malik Maxwell

[Florete]

Unreliable hit, I hate it. And I HATE axe-locked units who can't get reliable hit the majority of the time - it drives me up a wall.

Where is your border between reliable and unreliable? 90%? Because FE7 Axe users can be in the 90's relatively often. Even if not right away, it won't take too long if you aren't blitzing.

[Shadow Mir]

Where is your border between reliable and unreliable? 90%? Because FE7 Axe users can be in the 90's relatively often. Even if not right away, it won't take too long if you aren't blitzing.

If it's about 60 or less, I might hold off.

[Narga_Rocks]

Unreliable hit, I hate it. And I HATE axe-locked units who can't get reliable hit the majority of the time - it drives me up a wall.

Um, Marcus has 100% hit in the early going with hand axes, the least accurate weapon known to man. Well, against soldiers (lance wielders), but still. And with killer axes in chapter 13 he's again pulling 100% hit on cavs.

[eclipse]

Also, Eclipse? I disagree with you about Cord. Cord at least has speed--Bord doesn't even have that. I never end up using him, but I'd say he's second best to Barst in his native game. Not that that's saying much for FE1&3...

I'm talking Shadow Dragon. :)

Cord's Speed is to Bord's Skill. However, Cord's axe rank leaves a ton to be desired, and this is far worse than Bord's stupid Speed growth. Here's why:

1. Bord and Cord are tied for second-worst durability when they start (20 HP/5 DEF is horrible). Due to axe rank, Bord can gain experience by chipping things with Barst's Hand Axe. Cord needs to expose himself to direct combat, and I have better units to feed kills to. The same could be said of Abel/Cain, but at least Cain can take hits (and in the earlier maps, having access to the Steel Sword instead of the Javelin isn't necessarily a bad thing).

2. The axe ranks in Shadow Dragon give bonuses to accuracy. This means that Bord starts with an accuracy lead over Cord. Axes, aren't famous for being accurate. Once axe rank hits A, that's an additional 15 accuracy, which makes the axes that really matter (Hand Axe, Hammer, Poleax, and occasionally Killer) extremely scary. Unless the RNG hates him, Bord will forever be more accurate than Cord, assuming they're the same level and class (just as Cord will forever be faster than Bord. . .but screw whiffing twice).

3. Speedwings are the most common stat booster in Shadow Dragon (not sure if it shares this title with another stat booster). Secret Books are tied for the least common stat booster (unless another one exists outside of the SS and Chapter 17, in which case Arms Scroll is the least common stat booster). Thus, there's more chances for Bord to do something about his Speed than Cord for his axe rank and Skill.

4. Insta-Hammer is godly for the early part of efficiency runs. If turns aren't a Big Deal for you, then go ahead and ignore this point. :)

That's my logic. If you want to share your side, feel free to do so! :)