Return of the Emblem: Chat

[Ether]

You know how I am with build tinkering, so I'd be fine with it personally

[Phoenix]

What do you mean by "realistic?" Are classes no longer confined to particular weapon types?

Currently you start with one proficiency and have to purchase access to the others. In the update, you have access to all your class' natural proficiencies from the get-go. You have to invest XP to get extra proficiencies (I wouldn't advise getting more than you plan to use). This allows limited weapon/magic customization for all classes without making their natural proficiencies trivial. I say limited because no matter what anyone tries, you've only got 5 item slots to place weapons and magic in.

(Also, seems like people with anger problems tend to have unique weapon types for their respective classes. We only have 2 examples so far, but this still amuses me.)

Heheheh. I hope they meet someday. Swap bandit stories or something.

And what about specialty weapons like whips or firearms?

The nonstandard weapons have proficiencies of their own in the update but no class has them naturally so to get access to these you have to use the same investment method mentioned above (which I'll expound on a bit later). This works well with customization in general I think.

Ehhh not really a fan of the switch tbh

Well if you've got any questions or concerns about it, please let me know. I want feedback on this good and/or bad.

I'm a bit hesitant since Archers are notoriously sucky when it comes to grid-based combat. Robin's suffered enough. Does she really need the map against her now as well?

I assure you these grid archers are the trolls, not the other way around lol

In all seriousness, though, characters will have an abundance of options for keeping themselves alive (including terrain) and I'll explain what I can going forward to help demonstrate that. Until then I understand the reluctance.

You know how I am with build tinkering, so I'd be fine with it personally

"Something something welcome home"

[Mercakete]

Hmm. Maybe you should prepare a sort of "trial map" for people to get used to the mechanics/for people testing out this format. It'd be a small, sample map with a handful of common terrain and an enemy or two to wail on. People can use their own PC for this. It's just a thought, especially since I don't know how automated these map battles will be.

[Phoenix]

That'd be fine, though it'll have to wait until there's a converted version of the items list. I've tried to automate as much of the math bits as I can with macros, though. Admittedly balancing automation with human error is tricky, which is why HP doesn't auto update on damage even though it could have been set up that way. Most of the actual work would fall on the GM side of things. For battles, rpers would just have to keep an eye on their numbers, move their characters around, and tap some buttons. (Maybe that's too little work? lol)

EDIT: Script, stop lurking and weigh in lol

Edited June 25, 2016 by Phoenix

[Mercakete]

Ah, so less AI and more chess set. (The trial map idea was actually meant for individuals, rather than a bunch of people entering the same map.)

[Phoenix]

To be fair, having a lot of people on at once would make it easier for me to see how much lower end computers can handle than just individual sessions, but with how long it would take to finish getting ready to implement something like this, there's time for dozens of trial maps, group sessions or individual sessions. Also, once players have the links to the campaign they can access it at literally any time, so with some freely controllable enemies, people can test builds and theories even without a GM around.

[Mercakete]

Ah, nice! Man, this sounds pro. Well done. I'm still undecided on whether or not I want to move onto this new format during this particular campaign (i.e., maybe for a RotE2?), but it does sound fun. I'll see what I think after trying it out.

[Phoenix]

(i.e., maybe for a RotE2?)

There was going to be a sequel rp (if Raquel and co didn't charge head first into the bad end(s)) but cameos would have been difficult and I like the idea that grew out of it a lot better than the indirect sequel itself. Part of the reason I'm making this update proposal is because I'd much rather improve this rp when and where I can and keep it well paced and engaging than devoting most of my attention to pet projects that are years down the line. Being productive is nice, but working on bigger and better versions of RotE's system and style while RotE itself drifts and it's rpers struggle to find things to do and work toward isn't easy. It's like buying a new dog and waiting for the old one to die so you can show everyone the new one without looking quite as heartless. I think a good way of addressing that is by splicing those two dogs together, forming a weird looking pseudo cerberus.

Kidding aside, I've got more things in mind to address some of the issues the rp has than just a system overhaul, but this is all that's relevant right now and the update is the only thing that relates to the way stats and battles are handled.

[Script]

I'll need to see a list of skill distribution before I weigh in seriously.

From my past participation in grid-combat RPs, I know they can take a looooong time to complete. I once spent months on a single battle. That was the second in the RP.

[Phoenix]

I'll need to see a list of skill distribution before I weigh in seriously.

I'll let you know when the skills are ready for public scrutiny then.

From my past participation in grid-combat RPs, I know they can take a looooong time to complete. I once spent months on a single battle. That was the second in the RP.

How is that even possible? lol Never mind, I /think/ I know how that might happen, and we've never let things drag on that long so far so I wouldn't worry about that one, personally. Worst case scenario we just skip whoever decided to take the month off if we can't get a hold of them within a reasonable time frame.

[Nanami Touko]

I LIKE IT but I'm a very simple woman so i mean

as long as eva can continue to act like a moron in combat

sign me up

[Snike]

sounds good

[Toogee]

I'd have to play with it before making any final judgements. It took me a while to get used to the current system >_>.

[Snowy_One]

So long as you're willing to try and make sure Robin doesn't fall into the same pitfall that many FE archers fall into I'm game. My system was designed with the notion that anyone could use it with dice they could find around the house and no other resources as I didn't have any access to other things or didn't know of them. Obviously that's no longer the case so, while I believe my system is... acceptable... we can do much better.

[Phoenix]

So long as you're willing to try and make sure Robin doesn't fall into the same pitfall that many FE archers fall into I'm game.

I don't see archers struggling much in this system. Each class has six unique skills and the archers' skill set more than makes up for their troubles at close range.

[Thany]

seems ill have to re-learn the system again in this once i actually reach combat, altho i have used roll 20 before, so that wont be a problem getting used to. (i just need to stop poofing out of the air) i do hope this overhaul works out.

[KentaEzren]

wow. A whole update to make this seem like a real game.

[Mercakete]

wrt Robin talking about charging up arrows with magic regularly, I think that's because it's ammunition, not a reusable weapon. Often times, arrows are damaged after being shot, or can't be recovered (at least in this setting; modern arrows used to shoot bales of hay are obviously not going to be at as much risk.) So even if it holds its enchantment, an arrow might become useless as a weapon (except maybe as a magical bludgeon?) after being shot. Hence making new arrows that aren't enchanted yet, and enchanting them. Pretty sure this is part of why the weapon is considered the bow, not the arrows. Guess enchanting the bow could be offered.

~~~~~~~~

wrt the new combat system, I have a question about leveling up. When you level up in this new system, do you get +1StatA, +1StatB, +1StatC like previously, or does it work differently? And when you promote, are the stats you get still +4 in total and based on your chosen class?

[Snowy_One]

That is a very legit question. We may have to re-roll everyone since this new system will function very differently from the older one.

[Phoenix]

wrt Robin talking about charging up arrows with magic regularly, I think that's because it's ammunition, not a reusable weapon.

I considered that, but the wording she used gave me a different impression.

Often times, arrows are damaged after being shot, or can't be recovered (at least in this setting; modern arrows used to shoot bales of hay are obviously not going to be at as much risk.) So even if it holds its enchantment, an arrow might become useless as a weapon (except maybe as a magical bludgeon?) after being shot. Hence making new arrows that aren't enchanted yet, and enchanting them. Pretty sure this is part of why the weapon is considered the bow, not the arrows. Guess enchanting the bow could be offered.

Aside from the limitless shenanigans of spirit springs and the emblem, there's only two ways to 'enchant' weapons. Imbuing, which gives them special properties (though this is inadvisable for arrows), and bonding, which makes things extremely durable (and addresses the re-usability issue to a fair extent). It's probably better to just focus on the arrows, though, since a more powerful bow is going to need stronger arrows anyway.

wrt the new combat system, I have a question about leveling up. When you level up in this new system, do you get +1StatA, +1StatB, +1StatC like previously, or does it work differently? And when you promote, are the stats you get still +4 in total and based on your chosen class?

Nothing about level ups has changed. No point really lol

That is a very legit question. We may have to re-roll everyone since this new system will function very differently from the older one.

People would be restatting their characters on the whole, but the structure of classes and their stats hasn't changed beyond some tweaked numbers and the doubled skill total.

Since I'm looking into taking another approach to converting the current item list (or rather making a converted copy for viewing purposes), I took some time to try making some design and quality of life changes to the character sheet.

[spoiler=Sheet]

Separate links

http://puu.sh/pI252/31afec2287.png (Inventory Tab)

http://puu.sh/pI26p/a9850d0f9c.png (Skills & Disc Tab)

I moved the raw stats down to the bottom to make them less prominent and free up some space in the middle. In theory, the only time you'd be changing the raws is during initial setup and level ups. On the fly nerfs, whether to simp stats or raws, would be handled with the penalties boxes. The other thing is the two tabs. I couldn't fit everything in plain view without the scroll bar appearing so I tried to get some tabs going. The general info and statblocks will always be visible but you can change tabs to view either the inventory or the skill/discipline list. Fields on the left are for names, fields on the right are for notes. I removed the Limit fields because those can be put in notes if they're really needed. This is still indefinitely a WIP, but I like it far more than I did yesterday.

[Mercakete]

Hmm. So, the new classes are going to have new sets of four stat-ups, then? Seeing as some of them are combinations of different classes.

Regarding the new layout, ok. XD I don't have much of an opinion on the changes yet since I haven't tried using either version yet. I'm glad you like it, though.

[Phoenix]

Hmm. So, the new classes are going to have new sets of four stat-ups, then? Seeing as some of them are combinations of different classes.

They weren't going to originally (use new sets that is) but the old set was more than a year old, so I had another look at it today and made a few changes.

Figured I should post some info now. It has been a few days. Please note that any references to the emblem in the skills doc are placeholders that might not wind up being implemented in the end. Emblem and NPC abilities that can't be approximated with what's available may just have to be carefully flavored in battles, though with the kind of item conversion I have in mind, most if not all of them should be doable through a combination of skills, disciplines, and items.

Public Files

This link can also be found in the original proposal, which is linked in my signature.

As a note, I will not be working on the items list conversion proper just yet. That's way too much work to be doing on top of everything else without a general consensus to upgrade, but for now, if anyone is interested in theorycrafting with the info available, they can use most of the current items plus some imagination. As always, open for questions.

[Mercakete]

Does the new combat system require everyone have a google account?

[Phoenix]

No google account required, I'm just using google drive to store the information for now. Are you having trouble viewing the info or is it an anonymity issue?

[Mercakete]

It just requires a google account to view is all, so I it brought the question to mind (and pretty sure it's not like anyone can view anyone else looking at a public file. I don't know much about all this, though, so maybe I'm wrong?)