Fergus is better than Othin!

[Narga_Rocks]

And concerning Fergus's attacking power with these...keep in mind he will pretty much always crit on his second attack, versus enemies with usually virtually no Mag. And that Fire Sword has essentially 10 Mt at range. So a crit and a hit from Fergus is often around 30 damage. Haven't seen enemies survive that often.

Huh? I thought in fe5 it keeps the 9 mt at 2 range, unlike fe4 where they use 14 instead of 12.

And since the fire sword has +5 mag, that's 14 atk at range. Also there's the possibility of scrolls. In any case, that's 14 atk followed by 28 atk, or more, which is even better than what you said.

[dondon151]

So that leaves people who have about equal magic as competition for the magic swords. And luck has it that we also have many of those. Eyvel's Fire Sword should have at least 20-30 uses left after earlygame, you get another one from an Armor Knight in Ch10, Fred comes with a Thunder Sword, and you get a Wind Sword from Misha or from a random enemy around midgame.

Depending on how efficiently you play, the Fire Sword could go into Manster with less than 20 uses. Mine had 18 uses, and I think IOS had even fewer.

And Narga is correct, the Fire Sword retains 9 MT at 2 range. Same for the Light Sword (12 MT at 2 range).

Edited January 27, 2011 by dondon151

[Mekkah]

Huh? I thought in fe5 it keeps the 9 mt at 2 range, unlike fe4 where they use 14 instead of 12.

And since the fire sword has +5 mag, that's 14 atk at range. Also there's the possibility of scrolls. In any case, that's 14 atk followed by 28 atk, or more, which is even better than what you said.

I assumed 5 Mt from Fire (since it says it casts Fire at range), and 5 more from the +5 Mag boost it gives.

I'm assuming we're not talking about low turning as much as possible, since then we're in the territory of skipping chapters with Warp, which would make it a rather boring and pointless comparison.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Mekkah

[Narga_Rocks]

I assumed 5 Mt from Fire (since it says it casts Fire at range), and 5 more from the +5 Mag boost it gives.

Yeah, I knew that's what you thought since you got 10, and 10 - 5(the bonus) = 5 and fire has 5 mt.

The other part of this is that unlike fe4, I don't think the wt (or hit) changes when at 2 range, either. Not that this matters here.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Narga_Rocks

[Blitz]

but I think Asvel is the best

true that

[dondon151]

After playing a bit of FE5, I feel like I can evaluate the following statement a little better:

At the risk of sounding like someone who needs to be told that PEMN, Fergus is always my MVP in manster with the next best guy being obviously worse.

I'm not so sure about Felgus being MVP from chapters 4-7. He literally does nothing in chapter 4 other than assist civilians to the exit; Brighton is doing most of the combat here. The brigand NPCs pull more weight than Felgus. In chapter 4x, he gets MVP title due to reliably ORKOing armors with Rapier, although Leaf does a number on them depending on his level and Brighton lowers them into single digit HP with a Wrath'd Steel Sword attack.

Felgus does very little in chapter 5 compared to Leaf, Asvel, or Nanna - Leaf and Asvel have 6 move (Leaf also gets automatically moved to the door when it is unlocked), they both get +20 hit, crit, and avo when all 3 are near each other, all of them have 1-2 range, which is extremely important against the archers and the mages, and Nanna is basically invincible on enemy phase, barring the boss, who usually OHKOs her. Felgus lags behind and can't do anything other than pick off enemies.

[Kriemhild]

Asvel, with 40 crit on Grafcalibur, and 3 PCC, will always hit + crit in a round of combat. So that's, when promoted, at least 22 atk and 44 atk hitting mag.

And by best I meant best boss killer.

Marietta, with 20 crit on Darkness Sword, and 5 PCC, will always hit + crit in a round of combat (assuming it's not a rare moving ranged boss on enemy phase), even if the enemy has Great Shield. And with Meteor and Luna, she has a REALLY good chance of ORKOing those big barons.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Kiku-Ichimonji

[Junkhead]

Mareeta must be broken after training.

[dondon151]

Let's think of where boss killing is useful:

Chapter 8x - Asvel can't actually double the boss, but he does do a lot of damage.

Chapter 10 - Mareeta isn't available and Asvel is a better boss killer anyway due to being able to stand on a mountain tile.

Chapter 16A - Asvel gets to stand on a forest tile against the boss's Master Lance. In Mareeta's defense, she has a chance to KO before the boss gets to attack.

Chapter 17A - Asvel can attack from 2 tiles to the right of the boss, which means he can actually completely avoid 3 ballistae on enemy phase.

Chapter 20 - in all honestly you're probably going to end up putting this guy to sleep or something.

Chapter 21 - there's a dude standing in front of the boss, so Mareeta can't actually attack him.

Chapter 22 - same deal, except this dude is Cyas.

Then there's the problem of training Mareeta, while Asvel is pretty much guaranteed to come out of chapter 7 at around level 5 at the least.

[Salad Utensil]

Then there's the problem of training Mareeta, while Asvel is pretty much guaranteed to come out of chapter 7 at around level 5 at the least.

If you plan to use Mareeta I don't think this is actually a large problem [to train her] (while maintaining low turncounts).

Since Mareeta is at such a low base level she levels up fast, so unless Chapter 12 is warpskipped she can probably pick up a few levels since she starts near a lot of brigand enemies away from the group. Additionally, chapter 14 is entirely self-improvement, you are at an advantage to train viable growth units who gain good amounts of EXP per kill and since Mareeta kills everything she fights on player phase ever (is likely at a low level), she doesn't need kills set up for her. Of course since her durability is mediocre she needs to be healed a lot. Additionally, you have a lot of scrolls at this point allowing her already high growths to be inflated even more since she basically gains a level for every 1-3 kills.

Of course I'm not saying she is more useful than Asvel, but training her shouldn't be a major issue to put against her.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Brighton

[Kriemhild]

Let's think of where boss killing is useful:

Chapter 8x - Asvel can't actually double the boss, but he does do a lot of damage.

Chapter 10 - Mareeta isn't available and Asvel is a better boss killer anyway due to being able to stand on a mountain tile.

Chapter 16A - Asvel gets to stand on a forest tile against the boss's Master Lance. In Mareeta's defense, she has a chance to KO before the boss gets to attack.

Chapter 17A - Asvel can attack from 2 tiles to the right of the boss, which means he can actually completely avoid 3 ballistae on enemy phase.

Chapter 20 - in all honestly you're probably going to end up putting this guy to sleep or something.

Chapter 21 - there's a dude standing in front of the boss, so Mareeta can't actually attack him.

Chapter 22 - same deal, except this dude is Cyas.

Then there's the problem of training Mareeta, while Asvel is pretty much guaranteed to come out of chapter 7 at around level 5 at the least.

There's one thing I don't get... why is it assumed that none of the other enemies will be killed when you face the boss? The ballistae are actually expected to still have ammo by the time you reach the boss? Or that the idiots guarding the bosses of 21 and 22 don't have to be eliminated anyway for Leaf to capture the gate?

Also, why on Weyard would I waste a Sleep on Ch 20's boss? All I need to do is steal his stupid scroll and let Marietta crit him. Asvel can do the same, but like with other Barons (and Rinehart), he can't guarantee not getting stopped by Great Shield. A well-timed Great Shield can force you to restart the entire chapter (keep in mind that you already reached the BOSS in that attempt, and in cases like Rinehart and Coen, I wouldn't wanna restart the chapter just for this). Plus, rolling eight RNGs (four attacks, two skills) for Meteor or Luna in a single round really improves your chances of ORKOing the more durable ones.

As for the training, I agree with what Brighton said. I never had trouble training her and my favoritism was focused on other people. I don't think I ever even gave her any scrolls. Marietta's proficiency as a boss-killer completely took me by surprise. I even remember arguing for Asvel as the superior boss killer about a year ago but now I realized that Marietta is actually better at that.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Kiku-Ichimonji

[dondon151]

There's one thing I don't get... why is it assumed that none of the other enemies will be killed when you face the boss? The ballistae are actually expected to still have ammo by the time you reach the boss? Or that the idiots guarding the bosses of 21 and 22 don't have to be eliminated anyway for Leaf to capture the gate?

Warp. Asvel can 1 turn with Warp; Mareeta cannot due to the obstructions. Hence Asvel is a better boss killer - he's more flexible and enables quicker clear strategies.

Oh, wait, we don't have to use Warp. Well, in that case, I can give any beefed up character Wrath and a Hero Axe, Hero Sword, or King Sword and watch him rape.

Also, why on Weyard would I waste a Sleep on Ch 20's boss?

Why the hell would you need to hoard a Sleep staff?

Edited February 18, 2011 by dondon151

[Kriemhild]

Warp. Asvel can 1 turn with Warp; Mareeta cannot due to the obstructions. Hence Asvel is a better boss killer - he's more flexible and enables quicker clear strategies.

Okay, the ballista I can understand but Marietta will have to kill the human obstructions anyway. Which she has no problem in dealing with.

Oh, wait, we don't have to use Warp. Well, in that case, I can give any beefed up character Wrath and a Hero Axe, Hero Sword, or King Sword and watch him rape.

Wrath, non-Prf weapons, and even scrolls have competition with other units. Marietta does not any special attention to be able dispatch bosses. Meteor+Luna+Darkness Sword+5 PCC are all she needs.

Why the hell would you need to hoard a Sleep staff?

Wouldn't it be better to use it on another annoying status enemy that I'm not required to kill anyway? Besides, it's not like these Sleep staves are really easy to acquire.

[Don Draper]

.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Don Draper

[dondon151]

Okay, the ballista I can understand but Marietta will have to kill the human obstructions anyway. Which she has no problem in dealing with.

Mareeta will have to kill the enemy units. Asvel can just ignore them. It takes 1 turn to kill the units and then another turn to kill the boss at minimum

Wrath, non-Prf weapons, and even scrolls have competition with other units. Marietta does not any special attention to be able dispatch bosses. Meteor+Luna+Darkness Sword+5 PCC are all she needs.

Correction: Wrath is the only resource in competition in this scenario, and even then, you can just give it to a unit specially dedicated for a certain purpose. Hero weapons are not competed for because only the boss killer will need to use it. In any case, Astra, Luna, 2x attack, Adept, and 5 PCC are overkill for the purpose of bosskilling (i.e. many of them are superfluous) and the same thing can be accomplished with just PCC triggering a critical hit.

Wouldn't it be better to use it on another annoying status enemy that I'm not required to kill anyway? Besides, it's not like these Sleep staves are really easy to acquire.

My bad, I meant Sleep Sword in my original point and forgot to correct myself. You are indeed correct that Sleep staves are difficult to come by until late in the game.

Edited February 21, 2011 by dondon151

[Kriemhild]

Mareeta will have to kill the enemy units. Asvel can just ignore them. It takes 1 turn to kill the units and then another turn to kill the boss at minimum

Yeah, I see your point. I never warp-skipped Ch 21 anyways. btw what exactly are the odds that Asvel will be able to kill Coen on Turn 1 while the twenty leadership stars are active? Also, Big Shield is still a problem for these bosses as well as others.

Correction: Wrath is the only resource in competition in this scenario, and even then, you can just give it to a unit specially dedicated for a certain purpose. Hero weapons are not competed for because only the boss killer will need to use it. In any case, Astra, Luna, 2x attack, Adept, and 5 PCC are overkill for the purpose of bosskilling (i.e. many of them are superfluous) and the same thing can be accomplished with just PCC triggering a critical hit.

Not all bosses fall to a single critical, even from Grafcalibur. And the usefulness of Hero weapons is not limited to boss killing. They help a lot in capturing enemies and the extra hits are still nice to have in normal attacks.

My bad, I meant Sleep Sword in my original point and forgot to correct myself. You are indeed correct that Sleep staves are difficult to come by until late in the game.

...so you send a guy with a Sleep Sword to attack the boss and make him sleep and then proceed to whack him to death? Does he have some overkill attack or something that makes the sleeping so necessary? Just steal his scroll and let Marietta crit him to death, no need to make it more unnecessarily complicated.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

I've killed Coen and the entire flipping army around him once. Sadly, I wanted to get all the goodies and thus finished the chapter the very slow way anyway. :)

[Kriemhild]

I've killed Coen and the entire flipping army around him once. Sadly, I wanted to get all the goodies and thus finished the chapter the very slow way anyway. :)

With Cyas still alive? Because I did the same thing with Ambush!Olwen. Would you have been able to finish the chapter in Turn ONE in that attempt?

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

With Cyas still alive? Because I did the same thing with Ambush!Olwen. Would you have been able to finish the chapter in Turn ONE in that attempt?

I let him rap3 on the first enemy phase, so Cyas was there. On turn 2, I was ready to seize. Can't remember how much scroll help Asvel got, but he survived regardless. If I wanted to, I could have done it on turn 1 for sure.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Rufus T FireFly

[Silvercrow]

I've killed Coen on turn 1 with Selphina on my draft run.

Looking back, I'm not 100% sure how that ended up working, but I definitely don't remember her hit rates being what I would call shaky. Maybe leadership doesn't stack past a certain point?