Anouleth Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) While Staves are already an extremely versatile weapon type (if you can call them weapons), I can't but feel that there's more that could be done with them. So I wanted to discuss some cool ideas for new staves. Trade Staff: Allows you to trade with a target, (1-MAG/2) range, D Rank. Could be used as part of trade chains, or even just to farm for exp before Barrier staves are readily accessible. Vendor Staff: Allows you to interact with a target shop, (1-MAG/2) range, D Rank. Could possibly be merged with the Trade staff. Wing Staff: Target gains flight (and associated weaknesses) for 1 turn, 1 range, C Rank. When it 'wears off', the unit can get stuck if surrounded by impassable terrain. Capture Staff: Moves target enemy next to user, (1-MAG/2) range, B Rank. An enemy-targeted version of the rescue staff, could be used to draw enemies out, break chokepoints, or even given to enemy casters to let them mess with your formations. Curse Staff: Cursed target cannot be healed or otherwise targeted by allies (for example, to trade), can only be targeted by Restore staves. Works like status staves, B Rank. Probably more appropriate for enemies than allies. Shade Staff: Target will not be targeted by enemies if there is an alternative target (like FE10 Stillness) for 1 turn, 1 range, B Rank. Dispel Staff: Removes beneficial effects on the target, (1-MAG/2) range, C Rank. Does not miss unlike status staves. Banish Staff: Moves target enemy up to (1-MAG/2) away from current position, 1 range, A Rank. An enemy-targeted version of the Warp staff, could be used to get rid of dangerous enemies. Teleport Staff: Moves any target up to (1-MAG/2) away from current position, (1-MAG/2) range, S Rank. An amalgam of all the extremely powerful movement affecting staves out there, and an interesting alternative to the typical 'heal everyone to full' S Rank staves. If anyone has their own ideas, post them! Edited March 25, 2011 by Black Star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude C Kenny Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I would like a staff that could deal damage. dunno if it'd be too redundant though. would give troubadours, clerics, and priests a way to defend themselves and level up faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) These are really nice ideas, though. With the Wing staff, I might even add +1 movement for the turn but the restriction you can't stop on a tile you can't normally move on. Which prevents units getting completely stuck, and +1 move just because flying over battlefields is probably faster than running. I love the teleport staff idea. Even if it only had 3 uses, it's sheer versatility and uniqueness compared to other S rank staves is pretty cool. Edited March 25, 2011 by Gaius Frakkin' Baltar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I had this idea for the magic types having a physical-type tome to correspond to the melee weapon it sort of replaces for magic (Blade of Light, Lance of Flame, Axe of Shadow, and Arrow Staff) that were basically like the matching Steel weapon except for weight (and the arrow staff had to be tweaked because it would be kinda OP to keep them shielded like you usually do with healers and functioning as an attack too). I think the original plan for the arrow staff was to be counter only like in RD, but ... not suck. Also, the Teleport staff could maybe work as both a rescue/ warp with increased uses? I also think the Banish/ Capture staff would be really easy to abuse for seize chapters: moving the boss off the throne and avoiding a tough fight seems pretty lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerachi Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Maybe we can break thrones even more and make them make the person sitting on it immune to Capture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Bosses should definitely be immune to Banish/Capture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Maybe we can break thrones even more and make them make the person sitting on it immune to Capture. All bosses would probably be immune to it anyway. Otherwise that staff would be way too broken unless it's only available for rout and defend maps. EDIT: Ninja'd. Edited March 25, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Your ideas of a Vendor and Wing staff is outright ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I don't really think we need to make staves better than they already are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Maybe we can break thrones even more and make them make the person sitting on it immune to Capture. Well, that would kind of go without saying. I mean, we don't let units shove bosses off Seize points, do we? I don't really think we need to make staves better than they already are... Because preserving the subtle, intricate balance of Fire Emblem is such a high priority? Your ideas of a Vendor and Wing staff is outright ridiculous. Ridiculous because they're too powerful? In certain cases, the Wing staff is pretty useless (if there are lots of archers, or if the terrain is too big to cross in a single turn). For actual flying utility, it's not quite as good as the real thing, which I suppose is pretty appropriate. These are really nice ideas, though. With the Wing staff, I might even add +1 movement for the turn but the restriction you can't stop on a tile you can't normally move on. Which prevents units getting completely stuck, and +1 move just because flying over battlefields is probably faster than running. I guess that's another way to do it. Edited March 25, 2011 by Black Star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Ridiculous because they're too powerful? In certain cases, the Wing staff is pretty useless (if there are lots of archers, or if the terrain is too big to cross in a single turn). For actual flying utility, it's not quite as good as the real thing, which I suppose is pretty appropriate. Because of that, and well...making people fly with staves is just too reality-defiant. Even for FE. Let's make Seth Superman now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Because of that, and well...making people fly with staves is just too reality-defiant. Even for FE. Let's make Seth Superman now. Seth is Superman already. Giving him flying would be superfluous. It would probably have more use for fun than efficiency because it's not going to help you rescue drop people any better since it won't change your aid. Edited March 25, 2011 by Reinfleche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Because preserving the subtle, intricate balance of Fire Emblem is such a high priority? Completely missing the point. Players don't need new ways to trivialize Fire Emblem. I wouldn't mind if half of your suggestions were enemy only just to screw the player, but stuff like Capture, Banish, and Teleport are too powerful when put in players' hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Completely missing the point. Players don't need new ways to trivialize Fire Emblem. I wouldn't mind if half of your suggestions were enemy only just to screw the player, but stuff like Capture, Banish, and Teleport are too powerful when put in players' hands. Well, there's no reason that enemy staff users couldn't use Dispel or Capture or Banish themselves. And it would probably be a good deal scarier than the fearsome Rescue Bishop in 3-11 or whatever. But you are right that in general, having powerful staves is much more of a benefit for the player than the enemy (who generally fail to use them effectively). Edited March 25, 2011 by Black Star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 And there's nothing wrong with powerful items in players hands. Unless you're picky. Then you can not use them I would advocate staves which adjust stats, buffing or debuffing by a few amount of points. Five seems a good strong number. A Remove staff is always useful (Re-move, not takeaway). Magic Rune Staff would be good too, to erect walls temporarily. I had a list made some weeks ago when I was gonna make a thread like this, but considering how FE fandom is now, it wasn't worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) I don't like wing staff ;;' I like fliers being the only fliers Thief staff from FE5 was cool I also wouldnt mind Aum staff returning Stone staves would be ok imo maybe a few personal staves but I can't think of anything. Maybe stat staves other than barrier/ward Edited March 25, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Refreshing staves. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Oh. A Doppleganger Staff would be devastating. Especially when enemies come wielding them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Refreshing staves. :) I don't like the idea ;;' dancers/bards should keep their utility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 And there's nothing wrong with powerful items in players hands. Unless you're picky. Then you can not use them Game difficulty, unfortunately, isn't officially defined by self-imposed restrictions. Hard games aren't hard because the players choose to make it so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haze Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Pitfall Staff and/or Light Rune Staff anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) what about personal staves with boosts/skills(shade)? Haze thats a great suggestion Edited March 25, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) TearRing Saga had, among others, multiple summoning staves, a saving staff and an anti-evil staff. They'd probably need a few tweaks, though, especially the anti-evil one. Edited March 25, 2011 by Dark Chocolate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Game difficulty, unfortunately, isn't officially defined by self-imposed restrictions. Hard games aren't hard because the players choose to make it so. Not everyone has to care about difficulty. And there can be drawbacks to staves as well, such as afflicting the user in some bad manner. Maybe even canceling out turns. Luckily there's more tastes than just yours or mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) Not everyone has to care about difficulty. And there can be drawbacks to staves as well, such as afflicting the user in some bad manner. Maybe even canceling out turns. So you wouldn't object if halfway through the game, you get an "Autowin" staff that finishes the rest of the game for you, right? More on-topic: I'd agree with those who say that the potential for staves is undertapped, but I think there is a problem with giving a single weapon type too many abilities. Furthermore, the better abilities are typically only accessible by 2-4 characters out of the entire cast. Existing staves currently: - heal ally - restore ally status - inflict enemy status - augment ally stats - transport ally units - perform map effects - steal enemy items - repair ally items Giving them much else would concentrate too much power in the hands of a handful of unit types (not that it's incredibly imbalanced already). I think it would be acceptable if we introduced new staves while getting rid of staves that inflict enemy status and assigning those attributes to certain weapons instead (e.g. FE5 Poison, Stone, Blizzard). Edited March 25, 2011 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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