[FE10] Radiant Dawn Transfers Draft

[dondon151]

K little double post never killed anyone.

14 attacks from Beorc units over 2 turns equal to 366 damage (with the added 50 we precalced, that's 416) leaving 114.

Add the laguz damage, Ena with the deamon card and Micaiah on the second turn only which totals to a total of 156.

This did mean I couldn't heal with Micaiah on my second turn and that sadly costed me the lives of Brom, Meg and Shinon. If deaths weren't allowed I'll gladly redo it in 3 turns.

I actually made an incredibly dumb mistake in my first calculation - I somehow accounted for only 6 auras, and not 8. I knew it seemed too easy. So you have a combined 720 HP necessary to remove before Ashera is even vulnerable.

Even with your numbers, you only did a total of 572 out of 720 HP damage in 2 turns, which is not that far off from what I calculated originally. You still have 148 HP damage on auras and 120 HP on Ashera left to go. I don't see how this is happening.

[Silith]

Me neither. We must both be missing something huge. I'll relook the entire list of turns AGAIN to see if I made some mistakes but right now my mind is exploding out of confusement.

I would like to be concidered disqualified untill I at least know myself what is going on.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Silith

[Florete]

On 1-F

Because Micaiah was so great with wtflevels Meg didn't need too many boosters to grow up since she could rely on Miccy. These allowed Fiona a serious powerup and with some forges their combat were not as suckish as one would expect from them early on. The fact that the BK stayed downstairs helped a lot. It was frustrating on the speed because I wasn't getting most optimal hit rates and no OHKO's all around but I got through fast enough.

My problem here wasn't how fast you beat it but how you spread experience and still got high levels. You nearly got three units promoted from 20 with base levels of 1, 3, and 9 while Sothe reached level 8. In NM that's reasonable, but in HM that's a serious push.

On 3-9

I've redone this chapter so often with Geoffrey getting attackd and such but the final turncount deffinitely says 4. I've used all 3 paths multiple times to get an idea which was the best. Maybe I used the middle path (where you go up 1 ledge and then thoguhy the middle) on the final try. I wrote a few chapters in a row there so I might have messed up and written the wrong strategy. I'm as confused as anyone can get and if this is enough a reason to disqualify me so be it.

Given he is able to have a clear path, it would be possible for him to reach the boss in 4 turns if he only goes up the first ledge and immediately heads east. The problem with that is that all the maps ranged enemies are over there. It'd be nice to see it happen but since it's at least theoretically possible I'll let this one go.

On 3-10

Mist is T3 here and her combat does not suck anymore. Transfers on her are huge (especially since she transfered all stats). I believe Brom did have Celerity and the Tomahawk from 2-F.

Even with that stuff, 5 turns is really pushing it. That's basically ending it the turn you actually reach that top area despite all the stationary enemies.

Endgame is covered.

EDIT: Since you're checking things anyway, are you sure you didn't play NM? That would explain just about everything for me. 4-E-5 would probably be the only one left that doesn't make sense.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire

[Silith]

Thanks for letting 3-9 slide. I remember using the short spear on the boss beacuse there were lots of ranged enemies and Danved had enough speed to double the boss.

Now update on 4-E-5. Be ready to be even more confused.

I checked the turncount list again and it said 2 turns. Knowing it should be impossible I redid the chapter and beat it in 4 turns. Now I had misses all around so I redid the chapter again and missed a few times again so I couldn't finish it at the end of turn 3 (thank you Ike missing the fatal blow). Knowing that if he hadn't missed it should be possible in 3 turns but it all still didn't make sense.

I rechecked the turncounts again and it gave me a pretty 3. I rechecked again and it said 3 again. Gonna rewatch the list like 5 times in a row now to see if it changes all of the sudden though I don't expect such kind of bug to be there. I am really really confused out of my skull right now.

[Xander]

My problem here wasn't how fast you beat it but how you spread experience and still got high levels. You nearly got three units promoted from 20 with base levels of 1, 3, and 9 while Sothe reached level 8. In NM that's reasonable, but in HM that's a serious push.

Given he is able to have a clear path, it would be possible for him to reach the boss in 4 turns if he only goes up the first ledge and immediately heads east. The problem with that is that all the maps ranged enemies are over there. It'd be nice to see it happen but since it's at least theoretically possible I'll let this one go.

Even with that stuff, 5 turns is really pushing it. That's basically ending it the turn you actually reach that top area despite all the stationary enemies.

Endgame is covered.

EDIT: Since you're checking things anyway, are you sure you didn't play NM? That would explain just about everything for me. 4-E-5 would probably be the only one left that doesn't make sense.

Yeah, I don't really see a problem with her turncounts. 3-9 is possible in 4 with an unpromoted Kieran, so I'll assume Danved can do even better. 5 turns on 3-10 is believable with careful planning, and 4-E-5 is easily clearable in 4 turns if everyone hits.

Edit: Now can you give me a total turncount?

Edited May 12, 2011 by AMU

[Silith]

Do I have to remove the extra turns added at chapters such as 3-7 or can I just give you the final number the game gives me?

Oh and I'm really sure I played it HM. I can't battle save.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Silith

[Florete]

5 turns on 3-10 is believable with careful planning

Have you played that map recently? There are three Generals that a promoted Titania would have trouble killing and plenty of ranged enemies that don't even move with a Physic Bishop to help them out, and she was sending Laguz (two Cats, even) and Brom up there.

3-9 is possible in 4 with an unpromoted Kieran, so I'll assume Danved can do even better.

and 4-E-5 is easily clearable in 4 turns if everyone hits.

I explained how Danved can do 3-9 in 4 turns theoretically and the problem with 4-E-5 was 2 turns, not 4. 4 is easily believable on 4-E-5.

[Xander]

Have you played that map recently? There are three Generals that a promoted Titania would have trouble killing and plenty of ranged enemies that don't even move with a Physic Bishop to help them out, and she was sending Laguz (two Cats, even) and Brom up there.

Is a few weeks ago recently? Either way it's completly believable seeing as how she has 6 units at her disposal, 3 of which have 9 move. Iirc the units with 2 range don't even move on that map anyway, except for the bishops.

@Silith: Why don't you just give the final number the game gives?

[Florete]

Is a few weeks ago recently? Either way it's completly believable seeing as how she has 6 units at her disposal, 3 of which have 9 move. Iirc the units with 2 range don't even move on that map anyway, except for the bishops.

Those 3 that have 9 move are all Laguz, two being Cats with their terrible gauge. There are three Generals and two Dragonmasters up there that I doubt anyone she sent could kill in one round. Then there's a Crossbow Sniper, a Steel Bow Sniper, a Physic Bishop, and 4 Bow Paladins (one of which is the boss), all of which need to be killed on player phase due to Laguz having no 1-2 range or Canto. Brom can't reach most of those enemies until turn 5 as it is and the Laguz can only barely reach some on turn 4. There are also a bunch of other Paladins in that area that Ike, Mist, and Shinon most likely would not have been able to get to and, although they are easy to kill, they hurt gauge, not to mention the enemies simply on the way. From my experience, even the green CRK units won't reach those enemies until turn 6.

I don't mean to sound cynical here. It's just the lack of information combined with such things makes some of this really hard to believe.

[Xander]

Those 3 that have 9 move are all Laguz, two being Cats with their terrible gauge. There are three Generals and two Dragonmasters up there that I doubt anyone she sent could kill in one round. Then there's a Crossbow Sniper, a Steel Bow Sniper, a Physic Bishop, and 4 Bow Paladins (one of which is the boss), all of which need to be killed on player phase due to Laguz having no 1-2 range or Canto. Brom can't reach most of those enemies until turn 5 as it is and the Laguz can only barely reach some on turn 4. There are also a bunch of other Paladins in that area that Ike, Mist, and Shinon most likely would not have been able to get to and, although they are easy to kill, they hurt gauge, not to mention the enemies simply on the way. From my experience, even the green CRK units won't reach those enemies until turn 6.

I don't mean to sound cynical here. It's just the lack of information combined with such things makes some of this really hard to believe.

Ulki did the map with only half of Silith's units available. You're giving Silith alot of heat for things that aren't all that new or unbelievable.

[Florete]

Ulki did the map with only half of Silith's units available. You're giving Silith alot of heat for things that aren't all that new or unbelievable.

What was his team and how many turns? If you're talking about this draft, I see 8 turns for him (Page 22). I don't see your point.

[dondon151]

That's not giving us any information on how he did it. I will say that a 5 turn is at the very least plausible, but just by counting squares, the units can't reach the line of generals and dragonmasters until turn 4 and can't reach the bow knights until turn 5. Without any heron support, that means that 3 units, 2 of which have gauge problems and no 2 range, must KO all of those stationary enemies in the span of 2 turns.

[Zanarkin]

What was his team and how many turns? If you're talking about this draft, I see 8 turns for him (Page 22). I don't see your point.

I restarted this run, the new turn count is on page 13 (40 post/page).

3-10 5 turns

Thanks to Xander for telling me how to do this properly. Haar goes through the center with celerity and provoke. He kills a bunch of things, and kills almost everything on boss square. Ike with pass hurries to help Haar but when he gets there Haar is napping and a scared sniper 1 square away. Boyd helps ike through the forest and takes care of the generals with Hand axe forge and everything. Rolf takes on somethings with crossbow on the center. He is not like he was last draft but i did give him a few stat boosters last time, things i did not buy this time.

I realized its 3-10 you were talking about not 3-8 :/

Edited May 12, 2011 by Jhen Mohran

[Anouleth]

Yeah, I don't really see a problem with her turncounts. 3-9 is possible in 4 with an unpromoted Kieran, so I'll assume Danved can do even better. 5 turns on 3-10 is believable with careful planning, and 4-E-5 is easily clearable in 4 turns if everyone hits.

I find 4 turns pretty unreasonable for 3-9. Kieran would basically need to move his max move every single turn and never get slowed down or at risk of death, which is pretty unbelievable.

Those 3 that have 9 move are all Laguz, two being Cats with their terrible gauge. There are three Generals and two Dragonmasters up there that I doubt anyone she sent could kill in one round. Then there's a Crossbow Sniper, a Steel Bow Sniper, a Physic Bishop, and 4 Bow Paladins (one of which is the boss), all of which need to be killed on player phase due to Laguz having no 1-2 range or Canto. Brom can't reach most of those enemies until turn 5 as it is and the Laguz can only barely reach some on turn 4. There are also a bunch of other Paladins in that area that Ike, Mist, and Shinon most likely would not have been able to get to and, although they are easy to kill, they hurt gauge, not to mention the enemies simply on the way. From my experience, even the green CRK units won't reach those enemies until turn 6.

I don't mean to sound cynical here. It's just the lack of information combined with such things makes some of this really hard to believe.

It's also worth noting that Lyre was basically at base level (and thus useless).

[Florete]

For one, it's 3-10, not 3-8. For two, you have freakin' Haar, and I checked to see that you gave him Celerity and Provoke. That is much more believable for a 5 turn clear just because of Haar's mobility and 1-2 range power. And Canto.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire

[Xander]

What was his team and how many turns? If you're talking about this draft, I see 8 turns for him (Page 22). I don't see your point.

Look again please. He redid it and got 5 turns. Anyway, I'm not going to make Silith redo it regardless, but you can ask her to go into more detail if you really have to see it, but I'm not going to make her.

Also, you're probably overrating 2 range on that map. The only places it's necessary are to OHKO the boss and in the eastern portion of the map.

Edited May 12, 2011 by AMU

[Zanarkin]

For one, it's 3-10, not 3-8. For two, you have freakin' Haar, and I checked to see that you gave him Celerity and Provoke. That is much more believable for a 5 turn clear just because of Haar's mobility and 1-2 range power. And Canto.

I know i realised after posting and went looking for 3-10. Ah well, yes you are right haar does have advantages.

[Florete]

Anyway, I'm not going to make Silith redo it regardless, but you can ask her to go into more detail if you really have to see it, but I'm not going to make her.

This is really all I'm looking for. I know I'm not the law or something when it comes to drafts, but I at least think a more detailed explanation should be given for such an otherwise unbelievably low turn count.

Also, you're probably overrating 2 range on that map. The only places it's necessary are to OHKO the boss and in the eastern portion of the map.

What are you talking about? There is a total of 8 units with range in the north eastern corner of the map, 9 if you include the Bow Paladin just south. 4 of those 8 are locked into 2 range (Laguz can only kill them on player phase), 1 more is the Bishop that I don't think attacks anyway, and the only way you can attack one enemy and have another attack you on enemy phase is with the line of 3 Generals, and from that position you're getting attacked at 2 range from a Sniper as well (gauge). Then there are the few enemies like the Dragonmasters, possible leftover scrubs like the Paladin troupe, and the Lance Paladin up there that also need to be killed. No Canto, and it's not like she's sporting Ranulf and/or Resolve!Mordecai for the necessary power to actually kill everything in one round.

Buddy, you are underrating the 2 range on this map.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire

[Xander]

This is really all I'm looking for. I know I'm not the law or something when it comes to drafts, but I at least think a more detailed explanation should be given for such an otherwise unbelievably low turn count.

What are you talking about? There is a total of 8 units with range in the north eastern corner of the map, 9 if you include the Bow Paladin just south. 4 of those 8 are locked into 2 range (Laguz can only kill them on player phase), 1 more is the Bishop that I don't think attacks anyway, and the only way you can attack one enemy and have another attack you on enemy phase is with the line of 3 Generals, and from that position you're getting attacked at 2 range from a Sniper as well (gauge). Then there are the few enemies like the Dragonmasters, possible leftover scrubs like the Paladin troupe, and the Lance Paladin up there that also need to be killed. No Canto, and it's not like she's sporting Ranulf and/or Resolve!Mordecai for the necessary power to actually kill everything in one round.

Buddy, you are underrating the 2 range on this map.

I did this map with only Ulki and Oscar taking the northeast, and Oscar wasn't OHKOing anything with a Javelin anyway. Silith had twice as many units as I did. I don't think I'm underrating 2 range. I'm sure it's possible to pull something impressive off in 5 turns with a little thinking.

Buddy, I think you need to chill the heck out.

[Junkhead]

Xandre, could you please list me as 'Soul'?

EDIT: Thank you.

Edited May 13, 2011 by Soul

[Florete]

I did this map with only Ulki and Oscar taking the northeast, and Oscar wasn't OHKOing anything with a Javelin anyway. Silith had twice as many units as I did. I don't think I'm underrating 2 range. I'm sure it's possible to pull something impressive off in 5 turns with a little thinking.

Buddy, I think you need to chill the heck out.

Turns please, they are important (it's not like the turn count is the only reason this conversation is even happening, y'know?). And then, Ulki is much stronger + has Canto and Oscar also has Canto on top of 1-2 range. Even if it wasn't ORKOing it probably was still 2RKOing non-Generals, which means ranged enemies go down in two enemy phases whereas Silith's Laguz will never take down a 2 range enemy on enemy phase.

Again, I just want a further explanation. I'm no dondon (and he seems to agree that 5 turns with this team is pretty crazy), but I've done this map enough to know how it works, and 5 turns with that team is too much to believe at face value. There are also my other problems with Silith's run in general that I pointed out, some of which have been shown to be reasonable but not all.

[Xander]

Turns please, they are important (it's not like the turn count is the only reason this conversation is even happening, y'know?). And then, Ulki is much stronger + has Canto and Oscar also has Canto on top of 1-2 range. Even if it wasn't ORKOing it probably was still 2RKOing non-Generals, which means ranged enemies go down in two enemy phases whereas Silith's Laguz will never take down a 2 range enemy on enemy phase.

Again, I just want a further explanation. I'm no dondon (and he seems to agree that 5 turns with this team is pretty crazy), but I've done this map enough to know how it works, and 5 turns with that team is too much to believe at face value. There are also my other problems with Silith's run in general that I pointed out, some of which have been shown to be reasonable but not all.

Tell me where in my post it was indicated that I wasn't talking about low turncounts, please. You can't? Oh, that's right, I never said I didn't know we were talking about turns, you just randomly implied it because you can't accept a 5 turn for 3-10 with Lethe, Lyre, Shinon, Mist, Brom and Ike.

The fact is I've seen your other questions about Silith's run and from my own run I already know they're possible as I 6 turned 2-2 and can see how it might be possible to 5 turn 3-10 and all of the other counts being done. It's impressive and I think Silith deserves props for some of those turns, not ridicule. Now please, you can ask for explanation or whatever but don't argue with me over it.

[Florete]

Tell me where in my post it was indicated that I wasn't talking about low turncounts, please. You can't? Oh, that's right, I never said I didn't know we were talking about turns, you just randomly implied it because you can't accept a 5 turn for 3-10 with Lethe, Lyre, Shinon, Mist, Brom and Ike.

Now show me where in your post you mentioned how many turns you did 3-10 in.

Oh wait. You didn't. In fact, your context suggests you didn't get 5 turns yourself, in which case your run of that map is meaningless to me.

The fact is I've seen your other questions about Silith's run and from my own run I already know they're possible as I 6 turned 2-2 and can see how it might be possible to 5 turn 3-10 and all of the other counts being done. It's impressive and I think Silith deserves props for some of those turns, not ridicule. Now please, you can ask for explanation or whatever but don't argue with me over it.

I never questioned the turn count alone of 2-2 and dropped that one early anyway.

I'll consider it impressive when and if she can prove it is possible. As it stands, I questioned what I did because I think it is either impossible or would require an absurd amount of luck that no sane person would go through to achieve. 3-10 is one that doesn't seem possible.

I've asked for explanation more than once now and I only continue arguing with you because you keep responding. I can go at this all day, so if you want it to end just stop responding.

[Xander]

Now show me where in your post you mentioned how many turns you did 3-10 in.

Oh wait. You didn't. In fact, your context suggests you didn't get 5 turns yourself, in which case your run of that map is meaningless to me.

I never questioned the turn count alone of 2-2 and dropped that one early anyway.

I'll consider it impressive when and if she can prove it is possible. As it stands, I questioned what I did because I think it is either impossible or would require an absurd amount of luck that no sane person would go through to achieve. 3-10 is one that doesn't seem possible.

I've asked for explanation more than once now and I only continue arguing with you because you keep responding. I can go at this all day, so if you want it to end just stop responding.

Or you could stop responding just as easily. What are you proving by arguing with me? I don't see the point of your post, or a reason you can't stop responding. Other than stubborness. Before you try to pull the same card on me, I asked you to stop arguing first, on multiple occasions too. Then again for some reason when I do that it seems to provoke the opposite response to being quiet on this forum, where stop arguing means argue more ferociously.

Edited May 13, 2011 by AMU

[Florete]

Or you could stop responding just as easily. What are you proving by arguing with me? I don't see the point of your post, or a reason you can't stop responding. Other than stubborness. Before you try to pull the same card on me, I asked you to stop arguing first, on multiple occasions too. Then again for some reason when I do that it seems to provoke the opposite response to being quiet on this forum, where stop arguing means argue more ferociously.

We're the Fire Emblem fandom. We don't stop arguing. Thing is, I don't care as you seem to whether this goes on or not. That's what I meant when I said I could go all day. The point of my recent posts has been an attempt to discover how certain turn counts that do not seem realistically possible have been achieved. I have not been given a reason to change my view for some of them, so I pursue. And you still never told me your 3-10 turn count.

And you joined this argument of your own volition, remember. I was only asking Silith.

Edited May 13, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire