Paper Jam Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 From what I understand, the Black Fang were good guys until Nergal started corrupting them, or at least the common folk saw them as such (meaning that at the very least they had a good reputation). And Jerme was the foremost of the Four Fangs before Jaffar showed up, and that was about the same time that Nergal started corrupting the Black Fang. In other words, Jerme was the foremost of the Four Fangs back when the Four Fangs were a force for good. I guess Lyn said as much at the end of his chapter, and in light of what happened to Pascal it's probably pretty obvious anyway, but I thought I'd post about it and maybe hear your thoughts on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haze Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Not necessarily, Sonia was already there before Jaffar was sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I'm pretty sure Lloyd and Linus were still Four Fangs before Nergal showed up. Sonia and Brendan married the same year as the Caelin fiasco, so assumedly she was working behind the scenes with Nergal beforehand but he probably really made an appearance after their wedding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I can't be bothered to check any kind of timeline, but it might also be possible that Jerme was just a rotten apple in an otherwise decent organization. Attracted by the opportunity to kill because he's completely insane, hired for his skill with a blade. Gets a better position when Nergal starts pulling strings but is shoved aside for Jaffar at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvercrow Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Or maybe Brendan didn't care how crazy he was as long as it was directed towards the right people, which it very well may have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haze Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Mekkah and Silvercrow are probably on the right track, Jerme is a complete sadist, it's possible Brendan was allowing him to stay so long as he didn't pull a Pascal(the former occupant of that fourth position), then later he sided with Nergal since and I quote: "He knows how much I like to slice through people. He lets me do it as often as I want, which really is all the time. He's after something he calls 'quintessence'... I care nothing for it, but... as long as he keeps bringing me people to slash and cut! I am Jerme! The finest assasin the Black Fang has ever known! Now come! My blade hungers!! " Also I'm not sure where you got this "foremost in the four fangs" thing from, he was supposedly(note: according to himself, should be taken with a grain of salt) "the most powerful assassin in the Black Fang"*, and the Four Fangs have no leader other than Brendan(and later Sonia). *This also contrasts with what is said about Legault, who is supposedly second only to the Four Fangs in skill, a position that should be held by Jerme if that were true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 (edited) second only to the Four Fangs in skill, Character Average 20/20/Final Chapter Skill Legault 23.15 Linus 24 Lloyd 26 Jaffar 27.8 Ursula 22 Jerme 28 And I take that as a "The Four Fangs are second only to Jerme in skill" Edited April 14, 2011 by 13thshadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBrickingtonCrushworthy Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Jerme looks like he was crazy, so I'm going to go ahead and say NO, Jerme was not a good guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrhesia Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 And I take that as a "The Four Fangs are second only to Jerme in skill" Want me to be more pedantic? He said skill, with a LOWER-case. Skill with a capital is a stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) Or maybe Brendan didn't care how crazy he was as long as it was directed towards the right people, which it very well may have been. If Brendan didn't care that Jerme was crazy, why would he care that Pascal was crazy? Maybe Brendan himself didn't care about Pascal's butchery (Forgive me, but I haven't played that chapter in a while...) but obviously someone in a high place in the Black Fang did care enough to lock him up... and didn't care enough to lock Jerme up. Was Pascal really that much worse than Jerme? Edited April 15, 2011 by Paper Jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 If Brendan didn't care that Jerme was crazy, why would he care that Pascal was crazy? Maybe Brendan himself didn't care about Pascal's butchery (Forgive me, but I haven't played that chapter in a while...) but obviously someone in a high place in the Black Fang did care enough to lock him up... and didn't care enough to lock Jerme up. Was Pascal really that much worse than Jerme? Pascal massacred an entire village... or something to that effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvercrow Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Being a crazed killer who carves the flesh of corrupt nobles into ribbons is not the same as a crazed killer who massacres his own civilians for no reason. Mainly because the black fang was dedicated to getting rid of one of the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Pascal massacred an entire village... or something to that effect. To be exact, Pascal once ruled some part of Bern. He invited the civilians of his lands to his castle, where he slaughtered them for no reason. From there, he was stripped of his title and joined the Black Fang, even becoming one of the Four Fangs. If the slaughter on his civilians wasn't the cause of him being locked up, I have to wonder what was. I mean, how do you think his recruitment conversation with Brendan and the Fang went? Pascal: "Oh hey, I'm Pascal. I slaughtered a lot of innocents for fun and they fired me, can I join the Black Fang, a league of assasins who protect the innocent and kill corrupt nobles?" Brendan: "Hm, ok..." And then not much later, someone went "Wait, this guy is mad. Lock him up, no one is to see him ever!". I'm going to guess Pascal was told by Brendan not to hurt innocent people (he actually repeats this for Sonia) but they didn't mention that he did that (again), and as a consequence he was locked up. Makes you wonder about the whole "law of the Fang" thing where they generally kill the wounded and the useless. Why wouldn't Brendan kill Pascal if you couldn't use him? He sure as hell isn't innocent. And that's not even questioning why they hired him to begin with, let alone make him one of the Four Fangs. He is nothing like anyone of the Reed family, Uhai, or even Ursula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 If the slaughter on his civilians wasn't the cause of him being locked up, I have to wonder what was. The slaughter of civilians WAS the reason why he was locked up. First he joined the Black Fang, then he poisoned an entire village just to kill one corrupt noble therein, then he was arrested by the Black Fang. Killing people indiscriminately obviously isn't, or wasn't, what the Black Fang stood for; Jerme's lack of compunction about killing Eliwood's party indiscriminately was probably more recent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvercrow Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Eliwood wasn't being killed indiscriminately. He was said to be a "corrupt noble" by Sonia and was sneaking around in the Black Fang's headquarters while Jerme was on guard. Obviously he was going to try to kill him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) The slaughter of civilians WAS the reason why he was locked up. First he joined the Black Fang, then he poisoned an entire village just to kill one corrupt noble therein, then he was arrested by the Black Fang. Where is it said he poisoned an entire village? All I see is the part where he invited civilians over to his castle to kill them (which was back when he was with Bern, not the Black Fang), and Sonia quoting Brendan saying he would massacre an entire village to kill one man. edit: Don't get me wrong, maybe what he said there was what you were referring to. I'm curious where the poison comes from, though. Edited April 17, 2011 by Mekkah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) Where is it said he poisoned an entire village? All I see is the part where he invited civilians over to his castle to kill them (which was back when he was with Bern, not the Black Fang), and Sonia quoting Brendan saying he would massacre an entire village to kill one man. edit: Don't get me wrong, maybe what he said there was what you were referring to. I'm curious where the poison comes from, though. I thought he was with Bern AND the Black Fang. The Black Fang is native to Bern, after all. Besides, Brendan wouldn't have accepted Pascal into the Black Fang after he had poisoned all those people in his castle, unless the Black Fang was already corrupt by that point. And he would never have imprisoned Pascal IF the Black Fang was already corrupt by that point. Edited April 17, 2011 by Paper Jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Straight from the game: Sonia: Pascal Grentzer, once and former count of Bern's Landskron. A man whose battlefield prowess was feared far and wide...Until you invited your citizens to your castle and slaughtered them. Stripped of your title, you fled the king and joined the Black Fang. Is that an accurate summary? Pascal: Hmmm...You know me well, it would seem. Sonia: You were even made one of the Four Fangs. Spending the rest of your days in this place seems so wasteful. I've heard that Brendan calls you "the Beast". A monster who would massacre an entire village to kill one person. Pascal: He doesn't know how to enjoy his work. "Never harm any innocents." Bah. "The Black Fang brings justice to those above the law." Ha ha ha...Quite droll jokes, don't you think? Sonia: I'm going to release you, Count. I've a job for you. Something you'll love. What do you say? Are you interested? The way I see it, there is no mention of poisoning anywhere. Pascal "slaughtered" his citizens in his castle, was stripped off his title and then joined the Black Fang. Then Sonia says he "would massacre a village", which either means he actually did something like that (which would explain why he was locked up), or he would have done it if he had the chance...which then leaves us wondering why he was locked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvercrow Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Maybe he invited his citizens to the castle and slaughtered them to kill one person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 That can't be a Black Fang assignment though, since it was clearly before he joined the Black Fang. So if it wasn't, then why did he get accepted into the Black Fang and even promoted, and what caused him to get locked up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvercrow Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 I don't know, all-in-all he seems like somewhat of a poorly written character. Perhaps he got locked up because he invited his citizens to the castle and slaughtered them just to kill one person, and Brendan found out about this after he had already joined the Black Fang, so he locked him up. Otherwise there's absolutely nothing tying those events together and no way to prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Maybe he did it twice - the first time resulted in him joining the Black Fang, where Brendan could have accepted him on the condition that he didn't do the same thing again, and the second time resulting in him being locked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Spoon Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) Because Vincent still doesn't have the FE7 game script on site and the Gamefaqs game script is a piece of shit, I can't actually check on this. That said, who is imprisoning Pascal? I doubt that the Black Fang just so happens to run a prison complex, there not being much overlap in assassinations and Prison Tycoon. Edited April 18, 2011 by General Spoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 They don't have to run a prison complex to have him locked up, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Because Vincent still doesn't have the FE7 game script on site and the Gamefaqs game script is a piece of shit, I can't actually check on this. That said, who is imprisoning Pascal? I doubt that the Black Fang just so happens to run a prison complex, there not being much overlap in assassinations and Prison Tycoon. There are other ways of looking up the game script though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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