Prime's Storage Facility

[Lord Glenn]

Ummm, I'm not sure if you misinterpreted something I said or what, but I used that map as an example because of the similarities. The way it is in the tut map just looks strange and ambiguous. It is a clump off to the side. In my example the northern mountains are intended to end with the river - obviously it is something you can compare side by side.

The point is how it looks, you can create a bunch of ideas of what it could look like off the map, but to me it looks like it goes nowhere and obviously it does to other people as well. HoT and I share pretty much the same opinion on the map, we were discussing it just after I posted. I think I saved the image he edited while we were chatting about it..

You were talking about the southwestern mountain range, not the northern mountain range. If you take your hand and cover up the left part of the map from where I specified in my previous post, you'll see that the "new" top left corner of HoT's map is quite similar to Prime's old version of his map. Yet, you were saying there was an issue with Prime's map at that spot and made no mention of the fact that HoT's was basically the same in construction, only that HoT's southwest range was what Prime should try to replicate. *That's* what I was pointing out, in that you were seemingly contradicting your overall point with your examples. Also, I'm not sure why the fact that HoT's mountains in the north conform to the river is relevant. That's just a geographical addition. Prime's also has defined ends; it's just that the southern ends of the mountain didn't make much sense, hence the strange, ambiguous, and boxy/polygonal nature of the mountains.

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On the fixed tutorial map, the "forked river" mountain styling is still there. I think it still looks odd, but if no one else does, then maybe it's just a personal taste or something of mine. I do feel, however, that HoT's scribbles for the suggested mountain length should be applied a bit more, notably on that lowest section of the mountain that's sticking down. Other than that, the mountains are much better than before.

As for the map progression, it's easily apparent to see the level to which you've progressed thus far, and I congratulate you on your progress. If only I had more mapping inspiration. I'd make more and be better... My only issue with the new version deals with the mini "crests" in the left part of the northern mountains. They just seem to throw off the flow of the mountains in that part, IMHO. (It also makes the mountains seem flatter/lower to the ground.) The road usage might be a little excessive in places, but I guess that depends on the locale and how this map fits into a story or something, too.

[Celice]

I actually really like your original attempt. If you just patched up the jarring paths and cliff sides, and polished a little bit here and there, you'd have a nice looking, wide-plains map on a coast. Something the series usually abstains from (FE6 had at least one like it though...). Your final map seems almost artificially convoluted to be filled with objects for the sake of being filled, rather than to polish a map. But then again, it might just be that I'm getting bad memories from Advance Wars mappers, who don't care how a map looks or is created, but just want to fill it with as much symmetry and equal properties as possible, and make it ass-ugly in the process D:

The mountains glob together, and that, for the most part, is good. But everything else sort of looks like it was just plopped down for the sake of existing, first and foremost. There's no other globs of forest, or roads, or natural looking objects. Other than that, perspective is wonky in a couple of places, especially along the cliffsides, where you apparently ascend, yet the water level doesn't descend proportionally. Did you not like the idea of a river, rather than the ocean, cutting through the landmass?

[Anouleth]

I actually really like your original attempt. If you just patched up the jarring paths and cliff sides, and polished a little bit here and there, you'd have a nice looking, wide-plains map on a coast. Something the series usually abstains from (FE6 had at least one like it though...). Your final map seems almost artificially convoluted to be filled with objects for the sake of being filled, rather than to polish a map. But then again, it might just be that I'm getting bad memories from Advance Wars mappers, who don't care how a map looks or is created, but just want to fill it with as much symmetry and equal properties as possible, and make it ass-ugly in the process D:

That's presumably they actually intend to use it for competitive gaming.

[Celice]

which is cool, until 90% of the maps are made and uploaded that way and they all play in exactly the same fashion--the maps become nothing more than a mathematical representation rather than an area you're fighting over

[Primefusion]

Did you not like the idea of a river, rather than the ocean, cutting through the landmass?

If you're referring to the cliffs along the river I did it that way because the river's source in the upper right is of a lower elevation than the land and so I had the river reflect that. I kind of wanted a fjord style river. I will agree the waterfall creates height conflicts.

Hmm, time to rethink this map.

[Tangerine]

You were talking about the southwestern mountain range, not the northern mountain range. If you take your hand and cover up the left part of the map from where I specified in my previous post, you'll see that the "new" top left corner of HoT's map is quite similar to Prime's old version of his map. Yet, you were saying there was an issue with Prime's map at that spot and made no mention of the fact that HoT's was basically the same in construction, only that HoT's southwest range was what Prime should try to replicate. *That's* what I was pointing out, in that you were seemingly contradicting your overall point with your examples. Also, I'm not sure why the fact that HoT's mountains in the north conform to the river is relevant. That's just a geographical addition. Prime's also has defined ends; it's just that the southern ends of the mountain didn't make much sense, hence the strange, ambiguous, and boxy/polygonal nature of the mountains.

The river is a guideline. You can easily guess that the mountains end from it due to the shape and proximity. What I didn't like about the top of Prime's was that you could not really guess either way. They could've just been a random octagonal shape or just a weirdly shaped mountain range at the back. From my perspective it was the former, the latter would not be a problem. In my example the mountains are intended to end and would do so logically, so that is not a problem. In other words, they do not really lead off the map. In the tut map I was not sure what he was doing with them, in due part to the southern area as well. I guess I should've mentioned fixing that in the first part of my post rather than the second if I would've known it'd end up this confusing. There is also a large difference in looks because the mountains are not placed in the same spots on the map.

And I did say in my edit that I had made a typo in that paragraph .

In any case, there is no point in continuing this discussion considering he has already made the suggested changes to the map. We will just be derailing the thread at this point. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to reply.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Tangerine

[Terraform]

Can you post your tile sets without all of the markings on them? Also, what program did you use to make these?

[Primefusion]

I use Mappy for map creation.

Can you post your tile sets without all of the markings on them?

Are you talking about where I circled the tiles I was talking about in the tutorials? That's so people know where they are, the actual tilesets don't have that. If you're looking for tilesets check out Feaw's pinned thread in the ROM Hacking section. The tilesets that you can import into mappy are in the FE6, FE7, and FE8 folders. Don't try to import the square versions, those are just for reference/BwdYeti's mappy converter.

[Terraform]

Oh ok. I found them. Thanks for helping the newbie.

[Primefusion]

Been a while since I've updated. Made something for the SoS comp, round 9:

Rocking the Arcadia temple tileset.

[Chocolate Kitty]

Augh, some of those floors buuuuuuuuuurn. Other than the cobblestone ones, I'd say that's a pretty nice map, given the awful tileset.

[Primefusion]

I take it you're not entering this round? Aw come on, I'm tired of winning (Totally just sounded full of myself =/).

The cobblestone actually doesn't bother me for some weird reason but I made an alternate version anyway. Might swap out the current entry with this:

[riariadne]

oh god that tileset brings back terrible terrible memories

But, I'd like to thank you for that tutorial. I like to make maps for fun but it takes a painstakingly long time due to no Mappy (doesn't work on Macs ;/), so when I see something I dislike on my stuff it's frustrating to correct. I looked over some of them and your tutorial really clears up my mistakes (a lot of weird height elevation and mountains). I really appreciate it!

Anyways, as for the map, I like it for the most part ignoring the kind of jarring colors, but that comes with the set XD Just a few things I was wondering about...

[spoiler=map w/ questions]

Green: Why's there this random pillar there? It feels like it's just... there.

Red: Here the water tile seems to clash with the top border of this tile- they look almost the same color. Not particularly a problem, but something that caught my attention pretty quickly. The blue is also sort of the same, but I guess you can't really help that with the tileset.

Pink: The shading on the left pillar seems a lot better than that on the right one. Tileset, I assume?

Yellow: This one's opinion, really, but I think it's kind of awkward to have the two of these right next to each other. Though, I guess it would look weird with only one of them too. Feel free to totally ignore this XD

[Chocolate Kitty]

I may or may not Prime. And I like the new version much better.

And Luka, most of those things are personal preference, although I agree with the waterfalls thing.

[Primefusion]

Green: I was on the fence about it anyways. I will remove it.

Red and Blue: I don't see a problem :V

Pink: Ya, it's the tileset.

Yellow: Seeing as the waterfalls are coming out of the walls I don't have a problem with it (Though I can see why you guys do). I may change it but OCD will probably prevent me (Won't be symmetrical).

Edit: If you're on a Mac have you looked into using Tiled?

Edited June 30, 2011 by Primefusion

[Feaw]

To reply to Luka's comments;

Green: Pillar seems fine up there. Otherwise it's so empty.

Red: I kinda agree it looks off, but not becuase "it looks almost the same color as the water", which, imo, isn't the case.

It just looks weird becuase they're only used seldomly, whole the rest of the plateaus are of the lighter variants.

Blue: Even tho the chest doesn't conflict with the wall or anything, I suggest making the room 1 tile higher and have the chest in the middle.

Pink: It's the tileset's fault yeah. Nothing to be done about it (without custom tilesets, that is).

Yellow: I agree. Just keep the left one and put a wall where the right one was.

EDIT: new stuff;

Next to the waterfall tile to the right, you used a shaded wall. Don't. Use a normal wall (same applies to if you're gonna change the left dual-waterfalls).

Edited June 30, 2011 by Feaw

[Primefusion]

Red: The darker plateaus are intended to be "permanent" tiles. The lighter colored ones come and go as usual but the darker ones stay put.

Blue: I don't like the look =/

Yellow: Peer pressure, will change.

The edit: Will do

Edit:

Yes? No? Maybe?

Edited July 1, 2011 by Primefusion

[Feaw]

A yes for me. Looks pretty sweet.

EDIT: needs some tiny edits, tho (didnt notice them earlier);

The tiles under the waterfall, now I think is mostly my own personal preference, but I'd place normal water shading tiles under them (like under the plateaus).

The other one lacks shading on the left, and is actually an error.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Feaw

[riariadne]

Green: I was on the fence about it anyways. I will remove it.

Red and Blue: I don't see a problem :V

Pink: Ya, it's the tileset.

Yellow: Seeing as the waterfalls are coming out of the walls I don't have a problem with it (Though I can see why you guys do). I may change it but OCD will probably prevent me (Won't be symmetrical).

Edit: If you're on a Mac have you looked into using Tiled?

Green: K.

R/B: Maybe it's just me from looking at all the bright colors? XD

Pink: Oh, alright.

Yellow: I personally was thinking that the barrier between them was a bit odd, but I guess without custom tiles you couldn't have really changed that.

Never heard of it, but I'll definitely give it a shot. Thanks.

[Lord Glenn]

Never heard of it, but I'll definitely give it a shot. Thanks.

This thread might be of use then: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=26486

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While I'm here, I might as well chime in on the map...

The tiles under the waterfall, now I think is mostly my own personal preference, but I'd place normal water shading tiles under them (like under the plateaus).

Speaking from personal experience with the tiles, using the "rectangle shading" water tiles near the "waterfalls" just doesn't really look right. From a physics standpoint (yeah, yeah, video game logic, etc.), the shadows would be obscured because of the rippling from all of the water pouring out. Plus, the "semi-circle" shading tiles currently being used also feature slightly "more energetic" water, which seems to fit with the fact that there is pouring water right next to those tiles.

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That said, I like the map. It reminds me of the one that I just did last month or so. My only suggestion might be to swap the "marble"-style tiles from that chest area in the bottom left to the solid dark blue tile area and see what it looks like. I think it might make the map stand out a bit more.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Lord Glenn

[Primefusion]

For the water barrier in the upper left, I originally wanted to make a water canal running through there and have it end in a waterfall but the waterfall tile was made to look like it's coming out of a wall so things didn't look right. =/

Anyway, I think this is what you were meant Lord Glenn:

And I'd have to agree. It breaks up all the blue in the tileset. I also just realized this tileset would make for a good ice temple map. The chests and the marble tiles seem frozen to me.

[Primefusion]

Anyone remember this map?

Been changing things and what not.

[Celice]

It looks pretty nice. A few suggestions on my part: the third bridge looks a little empty, with the tile just above it. There are tiles whose bottom-corner pieces are cliff edges. Maybe try putting one there and see if it takes away that somewhat jarring emptiness? Actually, the bridge on the left also has that emptiness sitting there.

The fortress on the far-left, between the two gate towers, has that same jarring-quality. I see what you're trying to do there, but it's just kinda funky for a gate pass, more than it is productive. And the trees near the southwest-center seems to become arbitrarily thick into a forest. For a gameplay-purpose, the barrier it provides is functional, but there isn't really any geographical support for why that sudden overgrowth would appear... Not that there has to be--I mean, that huge wake between the land isn't normal either, especially with the mountains flowing in their direction. But it reminds me of JRPG maps where some huge magick'd disaster happens splitting a continent.

[Primefusion]

What?! A sprite?! In my thread? You betcha.

He needs some help (Mainly shoulders). His name is Raizen, a splice with some "from scratch" stuff. My buddy Yoshirider helped me with it, then it sat around for a while, and now I'm trying to touch him up again.

[CT075]

His right shoulder looks a little too far out, or his armor looks angled in a different direction from his collar.

...that being said, I'm not a mugger. Anyone else feel free to make me look like an idiot by correcting me.