Mekkah Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) Based off the videos made by goldie. You might know her channel from the face-off videos where all-capped characters with Nihil hit each other until one of them dies. They get a buttload of attention from Youtube fanboys but I've never found them too interesting because they are really only about classes rather than characters. But the Averages Unleashed series is much more interesting since: - it uses averages instead of max stats - stat caps are removed - default Nihil is off - awesome music, FE music gets old after a while Now what does this allow for? Making a tier list discussion! Unfortunately I am making this in one of those bored "1am nothing to do but can't be assed doing big things", so while I want to get discussion rolling I don't want to make a list of what, 60 characters just yet. But I'm sure someone out there must be bored enough to make some kind of draft, or at least get some ideas going. You can find a video with all stats here. I know, a list would be more convenient, but it's better than nothing. Tier list criteria would duplicate those of the video. Basically, it should be a list ranking the person with the most favorable match-ups the highest, and the person with the least favorable match-ups the lowest. A favorable match-up is a match-up you win more often than not, e.g. 50% of the time. You get extra credit for being more favorable than usual. For example, winning a match-up 80% of the time is better than winning only 60% of the time. This kind of chance-based speculation is necessary because of all the possibilities of master skills occurring, as well as missing in some cases. Some of the battling rules (same ones applied to the video): - Every character has access to every weapon they could possibly need as long as their class can use that weapon type. - Every character only has the skills you get when you raise them to max level without ever removing or assigning them anything else, other than laguz masteries (which need a Satori sign). - Fastest character attacks first. - Weapon Triangle is on. - No siege tomes. - No terrain, no supports. - The battle is played out as if both characters are on some kind of battlefield, so they both have a "phase" where they choose what to attack with, and are forced to keep that weapon equipped on the "enemy phase". In addition, they can attack at 2-range or even 3-range if that is convenient. - Matches happen an infinite number of time. So just because Tanith cheated Vika out of a win with a Stun proc (iirc) doesn't mean Tanith beats Vika. The videos are just a sample, but samples aren't always accurate. From what I have seen, some very good characters are: Mia - video I don't think she lost to anything that didn't cheat her. Her ridiculous 60 Spd allows her to go first against almost anything, which instantly gives her a 23% chance of "winning" thanks to Astra, and then some more thanks to high critical. She can do range with Alondite, but she generally seems to get by just by proccing something with Vague Katti or just attacking a bunch of times with Brave Sword. She also doesn't really get doubled by anything, and gets a bunch of chances to proc. Vika - video Vika has 74 Speed. Yes, 74. She doubles everything, and she has a 74% chance to get Tear which triples her (admittedly modest) 30 Str. 185 avo makes most people drop below 50% hit, and allows her to dodge bullets (for example, Bastian has 17% hit with Excalibur). Ike - video No news here, it's Ike with beastly stats. 70 HP, 39/44 Def, and almost 50 Str, versatility with swords/axes, but most importantly a complete immunity to mastery thanks to natural Nihil. Black Knight - video This is the only vid I can find of him. He seems kind of like Ike - a strong statistical guy with Nihil. He's suspectible to Hammer and other such weapons though which is definitely a downside. Mist - video Mist's stats aren't really that amazing other than her 50 luk. It is this stat that allows her to "cheat" by surviving any attack, even a mastery hit aimed at her sitting at 1HP, thanks to her default Miracle skill. It allows her to win otherwise unfavorable match-ups such as Lethe, although I'd have to do the math on exactly how likely it is to turn tables. She also has an 18% chance for Sol, which will heal her a lot which in turn gives her more room for Miracle procing. Rolf - video I don't know why goldie had him attack at 2-range so often...probably because 3-range makes him completely broken if he uses Double Bow. He has an enormous 50 Str to work with, his mastery is an autowin due to the sleep effect, and he can counter while going uncountered pretty much 24/7. I imagine Shinon and Leo do about the same, except minus the enormous Str. Oh, and they OHKO anything that flies. Please discuss! EDIT: A very rough tier list...this was just me going through the stats video and putting people in almost random places. It's easier to move people around than to create an accurate list out of nothing, I'm sure. Top Ike Mist Vika Rolf Shinon Leonardo Mia Edward High Ashera Dheginsea Black Knight Zelgius Tibarn Naesala Janaff Ulki Stefan Zihark Nealuchi Giffca Caineghis Skrimir Nephenee Jill Meg Gatrie Lucia Mid Sephiran Lehran Elincia Marcia Nolan Volke Muarim Lyre Nailah Volug Kurthnaga Ranulf Lethe Kyza Kezhda Heather Low Oscar Fiona Boyd Sothe Titania Nasir Haar Mordecai Tauroneo Danved Bottom Tanith Sigrun Makalov Renning Astrid Kieran Geoffrey Gareth Levail Ena Aran Brom Tormod Bastian Laura Soren Calill Pelleas Ilyana Sanaki Oliver Izuka Rhys Micaiah Reyson Rafiel Leanne A useful reference: everyone's Spd. Note that Rexflame gives +3 AS, which I did not take into account for this. 74 - Vika 60 - Lyre, Mia 56 - Naesala 54 - Edward 53 - Zihark 52 - Lethe 51 - Nephenee, Heather 50 - Naeluchi, Volug, Meg 49 - Jill 48 - Tibarn, Ulki, Shinon, Gatrie 46 - Stefan, Makalov 45 - Mist, Lucia 44 - Janaff, Giffca, Ranulf, Laura 43 - Marcia 42 - Kyza, Nailah, Tormod, Rolf, Fiona 41 - Pelleas, Calill 40 - Ashera, Kezhda, Volke, Oscar, Sephiran 39 - Boyd 38 - Sothe, Elincia, Danved 36 - Caineghis, Titania, Tauroneo, Lehran, Geoffrey 35 - Ike, Nolan, Tanith 34 - Ena, Muarim, Reyson 33 - Astrid 32 - Ashera (Judge), Kurthnaga, Skrimir, Ilyana, Sigrun, 31 - Soren, Haar, Leonardo, Bastian, Renning 30 - Sanaki, Dheginsea, Black Knight, Zelgius, Kieran 28 - Micaiah, Rhys, Izuka, Brom 27 - Aran 26 - Nasir, Leanne 25 - Oliver, Levail 24 - Mordecai 20 - Gareth 16 - Rafiel Average Spd lies around 38-39. Edited May 7, 2011 by Mekkah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I'm going to have to look at this tomorrow (when I have working YT). For now though, it's those characters whose growths really break things I'm interested in. How does Eddie do? I know he has mad growths, so must be pretty all around powerful, but is his lack of awesome in any one place a hindrance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) Edward's stats: 70 HP 44 Str 10 Mag 48 Skl 54 Spd 38 Lck 27 Def 18 Res Mia's stats: 66 HP 39 Str 22 Mag 46 Skl 60 Spd 35 Lck 34 Def 22 Res Yeah, Eddie is definitely better, I just thought of him before looking at the thread. He even has Wrath instead of Mia's Vantage. Zihark and Stefan kind of pale in comparison. Zihark's stats: 57 HP 29 Str 15 Mag 54 Skl 53 Spd 24 Lck 25 Def 30 Res Stefan's stats: 64 HP 37 Str 10 Mag 51 Skl 46 Spd 23 Lck 28 Def 24 Res Magic characters never seem to be able to win anything, almost always slower, and getting OHKO'd. Rhys might just be the worst character in this. Edited May 6, 2011 by Mekkah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Based off the videos made by goldie. You might know her channel from the face-off videos where all-capped characters with Nihil hit each other until one of them dies. They get a buttload of attention from Youtube fanboys but I've never found them too interesting because they are really only about classes rather than characters. But the Averages Unleashed series is much more interesting since: - it uses averages instead of max stats - stat caps are removed - default Nihil is off - awesome music, FE music gets old after a while Actually, Goldie recently did a series where she used the stats of characters with their caps removed and no Nihil, although she didn't use averages, she used an RNG to generate their stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Who's the best overall character? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Well, Eddie has 7 less DEF than Mia. In a fight between them, Mia would win. She'd deliver 2 more damage per hit and hit twice as often. Okay, then wrath kicks in... I guess it depends on if Mia manages to pull of Astra to KO before Eddie pulls of a wrath crit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Mia won in her video vs. Eddie, actually. She beat everyone aside from retuned BK, who is undefeated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I'd like to see Soren against Ilyana in this, but I doubt it would do more than help Soren, since he'd get higher magic and resistance and get Adept. But Ilyana would have more HP...which does nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I'd like to see Soren against Ilyana in this, but I doubt it would do more than help Soren, since he'd get higher magic and resistance and get Adept. But Ilyana would have more HP...which does nothing. He also has WTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Well, not necessarily. She can switch to Fire for more might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I wonder if Fiona is the best Pally (imbue), and Astrid seems like she'd rank high too. I'm pretty sure Jill is the best flier but I wonder if Elincia, Marcia, Sigrun, and Tanith beat Haar. Meg seems like she can > Brom and Gatrie but this is just a wild guess. Shinnon is probably the worst of his class since Leo/Rolf have more level ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegerZero Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Interestingly, Ike can cleanly 3RKO Dehg via 4 Ragnell attacks and a single Wyrmslayer strike with a nice 8 HP to spare. Dude's a monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) Leonardo's stats: 57 HP 37 Str 15 Mag 59 Skl 31 Spd 44 Lck 26 Def 34 Res Shinon's stats: 70 HP 35 Str 14 Mag 50 Skl 48 Spd 23 Lck 36 Def 28 Res Shinon looks better to me. 2 less Str, 6 less Res and 9 less Skl, but 13 more HP, 17 more Spd (!), 10 more Def (!). Leonardo has Cancel though. Magic units look like they're about the worst. They don't have access to Brave weapons, and their low Def gets them 2HKO'd by everything. In addition, they often seem to be quite slow... edit: I put up a really bad tier list, and a speed tier list. Edited May 7, 2011 by Mekkah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revoked Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I find it amusing how Ilyana has more STR and DEF than Zihark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Does Elincia always lose because she has innate Mercy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Tauroneo should move up a lot; resolve gives him a huge advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Is Miracle Luck*2% activation? I thought it was just Luck%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Is Miracle Luck*2% activation? I thought it was just Luck%. I thought so, too, but Mist triggered it pretty much every time in the battles, more like it was a 99% chance or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 (edited) I thought so, too, but Mist triggered it pretty much every time in the battles, more like it was a 99% chance or something. Huh. Then my Micaiah with 40 luck, Resolve and Miracle was a lot harder to kill than I thought she was... That makes me feel better about relying on her to solo the east of 4-P and west of 4-3. Pelleas and Ena have innate Miracle as well, albeit with less luck. EDIT: @Mist vs. Zihark: Miracle also lets the unit evade a fatal hit if they're at 1HP? Mist should be in her own tier. She can't lose. Edited May 7, 2011 by Radiant Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 EDIT: @Mist vs. Zihark: Miracle also lets the unit evade a fatal hit if they're at 1HP? Mist should be in her own tier. She can't lose. She loses against most anyone with Nihil, and she loses if Miracle doesn't proc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 She loses against most anyone with Nihil, and she loses if Miracle doesn't proc. Right, forgot Nihil negates Miracle. We do need to know what Miracle's activation rate is, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuglyoshi Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Yeah, I watched a lot of the Mist battles, and Miracle HAS to be (Lck*2) activation rate. She activated it every time.The one exception was when Nolan OHKO'd her, but I forgot about Nihil at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Also, why are the Herons on the list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Yeah, I watched a lot of the Mist battles, and Miracle HAS to be (Lck*2) activation rate. She activated it every time.The one exception was when Nolan OHKO'd her, but I forgot about Nihil at the time. That doesn't make sense though. How did she lose to Mia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuglyoshi Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I didn't see that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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