Warp uses

[dondon151]

I've been trying to figure out what is the most efficient way to use Warp in this game. Mostly for my own purposes (I'm redoing HM 0% growths), but maybe the contents of this thread will have relevance to the tier list.

Warp is obtained in chapter 14. Hammerne is obtained in chapter 15. There are 17 total available uses of Warp assuming optimal usage of Hammerne. This is given that there's nothing else worth using Hammerne on, and I'm fairly sure that's the case - I can't think of many significant uses of Rescue outside of chapter 22.

This is what I've thought of so far:

Chapter 14x - 2 uses

- Warp Rutger to bosskill

- Warp Roy to throne

2 turns.

Rutger is probably the best option for bosskill. He needs to be 18/1 on average or equivalent to reach the 24 atk with a Killing Edge necessary to 4HKO Ohtz. Assuming that he's been promoted early so that he doesn't ram his unpromoted caps, Rutger has 66 hit, 64 crit, and needs to both hit twice and crit at least once (51.9% chance of ORKO). Even if promoted as early as possible, 10/9 is probably actually a feasible level for Rutger at this point, considering that I had him at almost 10/8 at the beginning of chapter 13.

Miledy can actually reach Ohtz as early as turn 3 without Warp, but she has to survive at least 2 Boltings, an archer, and possibly a druid among other enemies. I've noticed that Ohtz tends to get 17 spd from his HM bonuses when starting the map from a chapter save, which reduces his AS to 14 with Bolting equipped. Miledy only needs to be about 13/1 on average or equivalent with a Speedwings in order to double Ohtz with Silver Lance and reach the 34 atk necessary for a clean 2HKO. The accuracy leaves much to be desired, at only around 39 hit (9.5% chance to hit twice). Alternatively, she can go with a Killer Lance and try to OHKO with a crit, doubling at 49 hit, 31 crit with a comfortable 3HKO (27.8% chance to crit at least once).

Lalum can be used to perform 2 warps on turn 2 so that the bosskilling unit doesn't have to survive an enemy phase.

Chapter 16 - 1 use

- Warp Miledy across broken wall to recruit Zeiss

9 turns.

I finally settled on using Warp just once in this map, which in all likelihood cut off maybe 2-3 turns from a Warp-less completion. Obviously, I warped Miledy from the interior of the throne room to Zeiss's location, which necessitated dragging Saul all the way up to that section of the map. The main reason why this completion is 9 turns is because that's how long it takes for Percival and a supporting unit to reach the Rescue staff without Lalum's assistance. The two conflicting objectives that I had on this map that really prevented effective use of Warp were obtaining the Rescue staff and recruiting Zeiss. Stealing the Delphi Shield was also kind of a problem, but not as big of one. Recruiting Hugh for his Member Card also meant that Roy had other obligations before seizing the throne.

Breaking down the 100 HP wall to Zeiss's location in the span of a couple of turns with just 1 unit is impossible without using brave weapons to speed it up. No staff unit will have enough staff range to warp Miledy directly into that corridor. Naturally, this already puts a floor on the map's turncount. The Rescue staff is located really far away from the throne and would require a Warp use all on its own; the unit warped into that room would also have to deal with the 2 snipers blocking the door that aggro.

In a normal playthrough, Rescue can probably be passed up. In that case, I think this map can be conceivably completed in 6 turns with 2 Warp uses and the Delphi Shield obtained. The strategy would probably be something like:

Turn 1

- Miledy rescues bosskilling unit

- Lalum or Elphin dances Miledy

- Saul warps Miledy across the wall near the starting position

- Miledy drops bosskilling unit

Some later turn

- Astohl rescues Roy (or Roy rescues Chad or Cass)

- Saul warps Astohl across walls of winding corridor in the center of the map

- Astohl drops Roy

Saul needs at least 10 staff range (10 mag) to warp Miledy past the 5 enemies blocking her path, and Miledy needs at least 20 str to 3HKO the broken wall with a Silver Lance. If the player influences Hugh's AI, it may be possible to recruit him as well before seizing the throne, or at least steal his Member Card.

Passing up the Delphi Shield allows the bosskilling unit instead of Astohl to rescue Roy and Miledy to rescue a Brave Bow user, which can conceivably cut this down to 4 turns. I doubt that the Member Card can be obtained in this fashion.

Chapter 16x - 2 uses

- Warp Rutger to bosskill

- Warp Roy to throne

4 turns.

Windam is quite a bit more durable than Ohtz. Rutger now needs to be 20/2 or equivalent in order to 6HKO Windam with a Killing Edge or 4HKO with a Silver Sword. Probably not possible if Rutger is promoted as early as possible (10/12), although early promotion is still valid for something like 12/10. Anyway, Rutger will have to hit AND crit twice with a Killing Edge at 57 hit, 54 crit (11.7% chance of ORKO), or he has to hit twice and crit once with a Silver Sword at 52 hit, 24 crit (12.5% chance of ORKO). I suppose one could go for a Durandal crit for an OHKO at 67 hit, 24 crit (34.2% chance of ORKO).

What about alternate options? You need at least 32 atk to 3HKO Windam if he gets 45 HP from his HM bonuses. Miledy needs 22 str, or 17/1 on average or equivalent, to OHKO with Killer Lance. With an early promotion to cut turns off chapters 13 and 14, this is probably out of reach. Percival needs 21 str, or --/8 on average to OHKO with Killer Axe, which also probably isn't likely in just 2 maps. 29 atk is necessary to 4HKO, which both Miledy and Percival can reach at base with killers.

Miledy at 15/1 or equivalent, with Killer Lance, has 34 hit and 19 crit, and needs to hit twice and crit once (1.9% chance of ORKO). Percival at base, with Killing Edge, has 40 hit and 19 crit, and also needs to hit twice and crit once (3.6% chance of ORKO). Yeah, significantly less reliable than Rutger. A possible alternative is to warp Miledy/Percival and Roy on successive turns, allowing the boss killer 2 player phases to KO Windam, but this hinges on 2 factors - he must not be the primary target for Windam's Berserk, and he must be able to survive an enemy phase of 2 Boltings, a Purge, and an Aircalibur. Additionaly, either of the 2 bishops at the corners of the map are able to use Physic on Windam if his HP falls too low.

So really, beef Percival up with Barrier or Pure Water and go for a 4HKO with the Killing Edge (calculations are a bit difficult, but Percival has a 22.4% of landing a crit on any of his 4 attacks).

Chapter 20 Ilia - 2 uses

- Warp Percival to bosskill

- Warp Roy to throne

3 turns.

This is a tough one and, as far as I know, requires quite a bit of luck. Roartz essentially requires the Armorslayer to be killed efficiently - a unit needs 22 str to 4HKO Roartz after factoring in throne healing. Percival reaches this at around --/12 to --/13 on average, which is probably a level or 2 higher than a reasonable estimate, but he gets here easily with an Energy Ring on his base str. The Energy Ring is obtained in chapter 19 Ilia, so he'll have to use it on turn 1 in this map.

The big issue with bosskilling involves the enemies around Roartz. A Killer Bow sniper does around 12 HP damage to --/10 Percival at 54 HP, 16 def, which balloons to 36 HP damage on an unlucky crit. Roartz himself does 20 HP damage per hit and has WTA on Percival. Lastly, a Berserk druid with around 26 mag can target Percival at point blank range with perfect accuracy, which removes a player phase attacking opportunity against Roartz.

So basically, Percival needs to hit all 4 attacks that he gets against Roartz at approximately 45 hit (40.95 true), for only about a 2.8% chance at success. Yeah, a bit of RNG abusing is required for this to work. Conceivably, Rutger will have higher hit rates plus non-negligible chances at crits, but his survivability is lower and he'll be 6HKOing Roartz at best. There's also a slight complication with him getting to Roartz by turn 2; assuming Niime is the designated Warp user on this map, Rutger needs to start in the tile closest to the throne and needs to use his full movement on both turns 1 and 2 to reach the tile directly to Roartz's right, whereas using Percival allows for a little bit of leeway with positioning (and it lets him avoid the Horseslayer knight in the throne room).

Getting Roy to the throne by turn 3 with Warp also involves a few rescuing tricks, but Roy can just walk his part of the way there if he has the Boots. Niime is able to warp Roy into the throne room if Roy is hugging the top wall of the NPC prison cell from the outside of the building; that option is much easier than trying to warp him from inside of the building because there are fewer enemies to deal with.

Hammer shouldn't even be considered as an option against Roartz. Hammer with WTA has 20 less hit than Armorslayer with WTD, and on a unit like Percival mentioned above, Hammer is less than a third as likely to hit as Armorslayer per individual attack.

Chapter 20x Ilia - 2 uses

- Warp Percival to bosskill

- Warp Roy to throne

3 turns.

This map is kind of unique because the player's units are split into 3 groups, but the only one that will do any work here is the bottom group. It's a shorter distance from one of the side areas to the throne, but Roy starts in the bottom group, so that's where the warping has to happen.

Assuming that Niime is the designated Warp user, she doesn't have enough mag at base to directly warp any unit from the bottom group directly into the throne room without Lalum's assistance, but it's much safer to wait until turn 2 in that case. Percival needs to reach a tile in the breakable wall in the second row from the bottom and be danced on turn 2 in order to reach Tick. Roy needs to reach the tile on which the enemy Brave Axe warrior starts and be danced on turn 3 in order to be warped and reach the throne. He also needs to have the Boots for this to work.

Since the side groups don't really contribute at all, the player should deploy one unit in each group that is a top priority for the Berserk and Sleep druids on the map and a Restore staff user in either group.

Percival gets the opportunity for 6 attacks against Tick - 2 each on turns 2 and 3 player phase, and 2 on turn 2 enemy phase. He needs 23 str to 3HKO after throne healing, which is his average at around --/9 plus an Energy Ring. Percival has about 48 hit on Tick on average at that level; the chances of him landing at least 3 of 6 attacks is 59.0%. More worrisome is the damage that Percival might sustain - at --/9 on average, Tick does 23/54 HP damage per attack at around 59 hit with the Silver Lance, and there is also a Killing Edge swordmaster to worry about who does 10/54 HP damage at around 75 hit, 56 crit. A Dragonshield on Percival will allow him to escape being KO'd by 2 hits from Tick and 1 hit from the swordmaster, but the swordmaster also has to not proc a critical hit on his attack. If Percival is restricted to only 2 attacking opportunities, his chance of defeating Tick falls to 26.3%.

It is possible for a staff user with at least 10 staff range to physic Percival on turn 3 in preparation for his last round of combat, but the staff user most likely has to start in the right group because it's easier to get past the first row of walls.

Rutger most likely isn't a good bosskilling candidate for this strategy due to his insufficient movement.

Chapter 21 - 1 use

- Warp Percival (rescuing Roy) to bosskill

8 turns.

The Shrine of Seals has a south facing entrance, so this Warp use probably saved anywhere from 3-4 turns. Niime can just barely warp Percival into the shrine if Percival starts from just outside of the range of the mamkute to the west of the shrine. Percival is able to drop Roy out of range of both knights if necessary and then canto back up adjacent to Murdock for a round of enemy phase combat. I silenced the Bolting sage with Niime in order to protect Roy from getting his anus reamed.

The primary risk with this strategy is that both of the knights in the shrine have Horseslayers and Percival needs to have an Armorslayer equipped for enemy phase. He must dodge 2 of 3 attacks that he faces on enemy phase - 2 Horseslayer knights at 55 hit and Murdock at 36 hit (assuming Percival is --/13 when engaging in combat) - for a 51.4% chance of survival. Percival also needs to connect 4 of 4 attacks on Murdock; 2 on enemy phase and 2 on the subsequent player phase so that Roy can seize immediately. Percival has 68 hit on Murdock with an Armorslayer (40.6% chance of success). At --/13, Percival has the requisite 22 str on average needed to cleanly 4HKO Murdock without throne healing, assuming that the player starts from a chapter save after resetting the game, yielding a 72 HP, 28 +3 def Murdock. The cumulative chance of success is 20.9%.

Most of the turns that I took on this map were from trying to get an opening in the enemy formation to break past the starting point. I planted Garret on a peak to the east to occupy the enemies there and berserked the Aircalibur sage, who took out 2 of the wyvern riders from the moving group from the south. All of my fliers either moved units near the shrine or went to visit the secret shop.

Chapter 21x - 2 uses

- Warp Percival to bosskill

- Warp Roy to throne

2 turns.

This is really easy. Percival must start in 1 of the 4 tiles closest to the throne. A thief uses a Torch to reveal the destination for Niime's turn 1 warp. Percival, after using a Boots, can canto adjacent to Peres for enemy phase combat. Peres is a little tricky with Nosferatu restricting the player to really only get 3 good hits in for a KO before he restores back most of his HP.

There are a couple of ways to get Roy to the throne on turn 2. If Roy had used the Boots from chapter 14, he can move to the closest tile directly beneath the throne on turn 1 and use another pair of Boots. Niime can then simply warp Roy as far as possible and he can seize directly from there. If Roy hasn't used any Boots, the alternative strategy is to rescue and drop Roy and Niime onto tiles across those 1 tile rivers, and then to warp Roy and have him walk the rest of the way there.

Percival has a few bosskilling options in terms of weaponry. Durandal is the easiest, but Percival doesn't want to use it on enemy phase, and it won't work on player phase unless Peres misses his counter. A unit needs 33 atk to 3HKO Peres, which Percival can easily reach with a Silver Sword, but he needs to hit 3 times at around 44 hit, for a 6.0% chance at success. At --/13 with an Energy Ring, Percival averages over 24 str, so he can both cleanly 3HKO with a Killing Edge at 49 hit and go for a 24% crit to boot. Percival has an 11.4% chance to hit all 3 times (whether he crits or not) and a 31.0% chance to OHKO on at least 1 of any of his attacks, for a cumulative 38.9% chance of success. A perk about using the Killing Edge is that if Percival doesn't KO after his first 3 attacks and Peres heals most of his HP back, he still has an 11.6% chance to OHKO on his 4th attack. Finally, there's the Brave Lance option at 23 str to 3HKO with 6 attempts at around 39 hit, for a 27.1% chance of success.

There should be no problem surviving enemy phase. As far as I can tell, the druids flanking Peres don't move, and the only mobile enemy is a Brave Sword hero.

Chapter 22 - 3 uses

- Warp Percival to left trigger

- Warp Roy to throne room door

- Warp Percival (rescuing Roy) to bosskill

6 turns.

The success of this strategy is contingent on the use of some other resources at the player's disposal. It requires that both of the triggers be activated and the throne room door opened on turn 3, which necessitates usage of at least 2 strong mounted units that can KO enemy heroes in 2 rounds of combat and multiple Boots having been used on those mounted units. It also requires at least 2 uses of Rescue (3 uses in my case, since I only had 2 strong combat units) and a Rescue user who can bring Roy from the right side of the map to the left side of the map (minimum 24 mag). Niime has 26 mag with Apocalypse equipped, but getting her to S dark is difficult if the player chose to go to Sacae instead of Ilia.

Starting after a reset from a chapter save, the Brave Sword hero guarding the left trigger has 58 HP, 18 AS, 18 def; the Brave Axe hero guarding the right trigger has 59 HP, 12 AS, 18 def. The best choices are to go for either a 6HKO with a killer weapon (hitting 4 times and getting at least 1 crit) or a 4HKO with a silver weapon (hitting 4 times). In both cases, 28 atk is the magic number for a 6HKO and 33 atk is the magic number for a 4HKO. On defense, the player units will have to endure 4 attacks at 27 atk from the Brave Sword hero and 30 atk from the Brave Axe hero; the best bet is to leverage the weapon triangle to get a couple of misses.

Percival at --/11 at minimum with a Speedwings kills the Brave Sword hero handily (4HKOing and doubling with Killer Lance). Lance can 6HKO with a Killer Lance at 20/2 or equivalent with both an Energy Ring and a Speedwings, or naturally at 20/7 (probably not reachable, however). Miledy needs to be at 20/2 or equivalent with a Speedwings to average 22 AS, which is also a stretch. The Brave Axe hero is easier to double but more difficult to do well against defensively due to mounted units having generally stronger lance proficiency, but a 20/2 or equivalent Allen meets the offensive requirements with a Killing Edge. Because the player has a straight shot to the right trigger, it's possible that multiple units can contribute, although those units need something like 14 move each.

After opening the throne room door, I brought Roy to safety and let the throne room empty out before warping in Percival to engage Zephiel in combat. Percival at around --/12 has the sufficient str to 4HKO Zephiel with Durandal without factoring throne healing, so this amounts to an enemy phase after dropping Roy away from the throne and the subsequent player phase. Percival has 61 hit and needs to hit all 4 attacks, for a 24.0% chance of success.

The player does need a mounted unit to engage Zephiel using the strategy above, because an infantry unit will drop Roy in Zephiel's attack range.

Chapter 23 - 2 uses

- Warp Percival to bosskill

- Warp Roy to gate

3 turns.

All I can say is, it requires a lot of Boots on the right units. The warpskipping isn't so easy to do here because Brunya has sealed off all avenues of attack with a band of units 2 deep, but has conveniently left the tile right in front of her free of any obstacles.

The left side is much easier to use than the right side for this strategy, because there are fewer enemies along the path and no flying enemies at the maximum Warp range (18 tiles for Apocalypse Niime). The maximum Warp range is located at just about the group of 2 forest tiles located on the left side of the map. The player will have to draw the center group of wyverns to the right side of the map and incapacitate or defeat the Iron Ballista snipers (Sleep obtained from chapter 22 is a good option).

For this strategy, the goal is to ORKO Brunya. Brunya has 46 HP, 20 +3 def, 20 AS with Fimbulvetr equipped, and there will be no opportunity for her to switch to Bolting for an additional -2 AS loss. Percival needs 24 str and 24 spd to ORKO with Durandal (46 atk), which almost certainly requires both an Energy Ring and a Speedwings (--/12 on average). At --/16 to --/17, he no longer requires the Speedwings, and this is actually a reachable level if he's been taking all of the bosskills. Percival has around 57 hit in Brunya and must hit both attacks, for a 40.3% chance at success.

Again, because of the enemy formation, Roy cannot walk to the gate and must be warped directly on top of it. In order to get into seize range, the player does have to put Percival and Roy in range of the Berserk and 2 Sleep druids near Brunya, all 3 of whom have maxed mag. The issue, then, is to get 2 Restore staff users to them on turn 3 before doing a double Warp with Niime and Lalum.

That's all of my Warp uses... I hope this helps with planning for future players, and I hope that the analysis of certain bosskilling strategies can contribute to discussion in the tier list.

Edited August 6, 2011 by dondon151

[Anouleth]

Didn't you also mention Chapter 20 Sacae as being a good choice for Warp uses? I would imagine it would also have use in Chapter 19 Ilia or Chapter 22.

Oh, you said 22 already. Although 22 probably varies a great deal depending on how many Boots you have access to.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Anouleth

[Psych]

Why would you 2 turn 14x?

If you are using Lalum so that the BKU isn't taking an enemy phase, why aren't we just warping them on Turn 1, killing, dancing, and Warping Roy?

[Reikken]

...for some reason I don't think I've ever used the warp staff? I suppose I forgot it existed promptly after obtaining it. I suppose its existence means Rutger should be at the top of top tier rather than wherever he is.

[Radiant Dragon]

Why would you 2 turn 14x?

If you are using Lalum so that the BKU isn't taking an enemy phase, why aren't we just warping them on Turn 1, killing, dancing, and Warping Roy?

Staff range. I'm pretty sure our staffer won't be able to reach the center area with fresh units on turn 1.

[Anouleth]

Why would you 2 turn 14x?

If you are using Lalum so that the BKU isn't taking an enemy phase, why aren't we just warping them on Turn 1, killing, dancing, and Warping Roy?

You will lack the staff range to pull off such a maneuver. Likely, the characters to hit A Staves will be Saul and Clarine, and while Saul has okay magic, Clarine's is very poor. You need something like 16 staff range in order to move Rutger and Roy into the throne room straight away, which is out of reach for both Saul and Clarine on an efficient run. It's not until Niime joins that you can pull off really ridiculous shit with Warp.

[-Cynthia-]

...for some reason I don't think I've ever used the warp staff? I suppose I forgot it existed promptly after obtaining it. I suppose its existence means Rutger should be at the top of top tier rather than wherever he is.

There are other ways to kill bosses fairly reliably, like the Miledy/Killer Lance example with Ohtz. Rutger's a better choice than most though.

[Janissary]

20x Sacae is begging to be warped.

[Radiant Dragon]

20x Sacae is begging to be warped.

That could be a lot of Warp uses though, considering the random nature of that map.

[Anouleth]

dondon will probably manipulate it such that the closest gate is the correct one. I think he did that on his original 0% growths run. I don't know if other people would consider that sort of manipulation acceptable, though.

What's important is how many turns the Warp uses are saving. Even if you use a lot, the turncount on that chapter can really balloon if you're very unlucky, so it might still be worthwhile.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Anouleth

[samthedigital]

How do you manipulate it so that the closest gate is the correct one?

[Radiant Dragon]

How do you manipulate it so that the closest gate is the correct one?

Just keep reseting until it is, I believe.

[dondon151]

Didn't you also mention Chapter 20 Sacae as being a good choice for Warp uses? I would imagine it would also have use in Chapter 19 Ilia or Chapter 22.

Oh, you said 22 already. Although 22 probably varies a great deal depending on how many Boots you have access to.

I'm going to ignore Sacae for now since I'm going to Ilia in my playthrough and I'm feeling kind of lazy, but chapter 20 is a decent place for warping (for both routes). I don't see much of a benefit from using Warp in chapter 19I as long as there's a way to clear out the ballistae ahead of time, but I can't say anything for sure because I haven't played the chapter yet.

For chapter 22, you actually have to use the Boots first. Based on how many walls there are in the chapter, Warp will probably save turns here anyhow.

I've been thinking that chapter 16 is a good place to use Warp, but there are a few problems that I can think of in the context of my playthrough - I need to recruit Zeiss, obtain Rescue, obtain the Delphi Shield, and complete the chapter objective. That requires 5 different characters, or 3 Warp uses at minimum, plus more turns to defeat enemies, drop rescued units, break down the wall to Zeiss, etc. to the point where the number of turns saved for the amount of Warp used might not be worth it.

Edited June 27, 2011 by dondon151

[Janissary]

Well, warping Miledy up to Zeiss seems like a good idea (I don't know what kind of enemy types/equipment are in the area offhand, so it might not be a good idea in actuality). Other than that, as long as you avoid Douglas, it doesn't seem like 16 is too hard that you'd need to warp it.

[dondon151]

It's not about difficulty; it's about saving turns. Chapter 16 has a lot of those annoying walls that force you to double back and move through extra spaces.

It's possible for base + promo Saul to warp Miledy across the broken wall from the interior of the throne room - the problem is getting him there in the first place.

[dondon151]

Updated this with a writeup on chapter 16 and an estimated turncount for chapter 16x.

[dondon151]

I just finished playing chapter 20x Ilia, so I updated up to that same place.

[Life]

What about Chapter 21? Wouldn't warping at some point skip half that chapter?

[Anouleth]

Chapter 21 is almost entirely open terrain, so Warp seems a little bit wasted there in comparison to Chapter 19A or 21x or 22, where there are lots of walls and mountains that force you to take a snaky path.

[Radiant Dragon]

Warping in Chapter 21 would help in avoiding reinforcement triggers though, so I can see it's potential use.

[dondon151]

I plan on using it at least once in chapter 21 because the opening to the shrine faces south. This one is probably easy enough where I can just warp in Percival while he's rescuing Roy, because I need Percival to take a chance and clear out the Horseslayer knights first.

I still have 8 uses remaining; chapter 22 will in all likelihood require 4 uses instead of 3 the way I planned it out, and chapter 23 is a good place to use it because of all of the enemies surrounding the gate.

Edited July 24, 2011 by dondon151

[Janissary]

I plan on using it at least once in chapter 21 because the opening to the shrine faces south. This one is probably easy enough where I can just warp in Percival while he's rescuing Roy, because I need Percival to take a chance and clear out the Horseslayer knights first.

I still have 8 uses remaining; chapter 22 will in all likelihood require 4 uses instead of 3 the way I planned it out, and chapter 23 is a good place to use it because of all of the enemies surrounding the gate.

Don't you need 3-4 uses for the last two chapters? Or do you have enough boots to make Final not need a Warp?

[dondon151]

With my plan, I can 12 turn chapter 24 without using Warp and 1 turn final without using Warp.

[Janissary]

With my plan, I can 12 turn chapter 24 without using Warp and 1 turn final without using Warp.

IRRC, that matches your turn count on the last playthrough, right?

[dondon151]

Yes. I can't think of ways to convert Warp uses to turns at less than a 1:1 ratio, so I figured it saves more turns overall to use them somewhere else.