[FE10] The "Does Haar Need to be Banned?" RD NM draft.

[Florete]

I always count 2-P and 3-7 as 8 and 12 because that's how many turns I take on them. I don't know why the game counts an extra turn, but I don't really care because I record along the way, not at the end. So I'd say to just go 8 and 12.

[dondon151]

The game takes an extra turn because the map ends at the beginning of your next player phase.

The full turncount is listed during the game's epilogue and is not subject to arithmetic errors (or negligence).

[Fenrir]

Well to avoid mix ups people should use the complete turncount the game gives and then add penalties.

Hey you changed your name back =]

I agree, I usually do this anyways, it's much easier.

[Florete]

The game takes an extra turn because the map ends at the beginning of your next player phase.

The full turncount is listed during the game's epilogue and is not subject to arithmetic errors (or negligence).

Either way. If people don't trust themselves to add correctly from chapter to chapter, just take the number the game spits out, subtract 2 (or more if, for example, you played out 2-E/3-5, which shouldn't happen in this draft), then put penalties in. That ought to be simple enough. The way I see it, the victory condition on 2-P is to play out 8 turns, so why should it take me 9 to complete it? No matter the logic the game uses, I spent 8 turns and only 8 turns on 2-P.

[dondon151]

The way I see it, the victory condition on 2-P is to play out 8 turns, so why should it take me 9 to complete it? No matter the logic the game uses, I spent 8 turns and only 8 turns on 2-P.

That is as equally arbitrary as going by the game's turncount for fully defended maps.

[Florete]

That is as equally arbitrary as going by the game's turncount for fully defended maps.

I disagree. On 2-P you're very clearly told to protect Leanne/Survive for 8 turns. Not 9. 8. I protected Leanne for 8 turns. 8 turns. Not 9 turns. Why does the game later tell me it took 9 turns? I don't know. The game never tells me why, so for all I know your answer could be completely wrong and it could be something entirely different. I could just as easily believe it's a glitch that they haven't felt the need to fix all these years. The fact that Tactics requirements in FE7 (aside from Ch 4, interestingly enough) don't follow the later recorded numbers for Defend maps always made me believe this (on BBD the requirement is 15 but it will always record 16, for example).

If anything, the game is just being contradictory. During the chapter it tells me I'll take 8 turns, later on it says I took 9 turns. I'm recording the one that actually happened, the one I was shown when I was actually playing the game, before the credits rolled. I had 8 turns of action to play with, a 9th player phase didn't come, so I recorded 8 turns.

And of course, that all goes for 3-7.

And after that needlessly long explanation, if it is still as "equally arbitrary" in the end, does it even matter and do you actually care, considering both options are equal?

[Junkhead]

I always take note of displayed turncount too. The one displayed there on the chapter, that is. Not the one at the ending records.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Angru Mainya

[Radiant Dragon]

As I suspected, having Makalov did end up saving me a turn in 2-3. I have to do 3-1 over again, though...

Chapter 3 - 5/85

This time I bought the Killing Edge as well, but I still gave all of my BEXP to Geoffrey (Makalov can wait until 3-11). I put the Brave Lance in the convoy.

Thanks to Makalov, I didn't need the Brave Lance to break down the door, so I was able to break it down and kill the Speedwing Halberdier on turn 4. Geoffrey still needed to get Speed, and Makalov had to dodge a 25% OHKO from the Horseslayer, not get crit twice by the boss (at 66% displayed hit and 22% crit) and crit back at 29% with the Killing Edge, to clear the path for Geoffrey to Seize (it's not as bad as it sounds). I found the Arms Scroll, but I don't know what I'm going to do with it.

Endgame - 1/86

Exactly the same as before, but without Haar capping Strength with BEXP (he's a point away, so he'll get it on his next level up). I bought the two Elixirs to transfer them to the GMs, as well as some Killer Weapons to sell.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Radiant Kitty

[Ring Wraith]

Nothing is more pointless than actually staying and watching the epilogue. I usually just rapidly hit start while doing something else. Adding chapter to chapter is much easier than having to wait until the end.

[Radiant Dragon]

It makes more sense to count it as the game does in the GBA titles, since those do the addition for you at the end, giving you the final total.

[RNG Princess]

If I had a satori sign in 2-E I could get a 2 turn sadly I don't.

BTW if Leanne dies in 2-E does she come back playable?

[Radiant Dragon]

BTW if Leanne dies in 2-E does she come back playable?

I don't know. I would assume not, since I've heard that this only happens with Rafiel in 1-8, but I've never actually gotten her killed to see if she rejoins, so...

[RNG Princess]

nvm lol ugh I guess a 5 turn should do ^_^

well what do you know I just 2 turned 2-E with Nealuchi, he ate a stone and moves to diagonal left spot of the magic spot ^____^

will update tomorrow

Edited August 8, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia

[dondon151]

And after that needlessly long explanation, if it is still as "equally arbitrary" in the end, does it even matter and do you actually care, considering both options are equal?

I actually do care, because I added 1 turn to my completions of 2-P and 3-7 in my 0% growths playthrough.

Nothing is more pointless than actually staying and watching the epilogue. I usually just rapidly hit start while doing something else. Adding chapter to chapter is much easier than having to wait until the end.

It takes 35 seconds to go from selecting the Epilogue save to until the turncounts start appearing. What if you didn't check your turncount right on certain chapters?

[Florete]

I actually do care, because I added 1 turn to my completions of 2-P and 3-7 in my 0% growths playthrough.

I wasn't aware your 0% growths play-through was supposed to double as a model draft run. I also wasn't aware you were incapable of changing your records if you so desired.

[Balcerzak]

64 turns for part one, as a heads up. I may redo 1-E to try to get treasure, but there's no way I'm shaving it from 6 turns down to 5. Full logs later.

Fucking swamp killed me. Jill, Fiona, Y U no show up for that map?

Edit. I always count the turns the game displays in the final scroll. The game is the ultimate arbiter of how long things have taken.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Balcerzak

[dondon151]

I wasn't aware your 0% growths play-through was supposed to double as a model draft run.

It's a playthrough that holds efficiency in high regard nonetheless.

I also wasn't aware you were incapable of changing your records if you so desired.

Same goes for you? Changing the record for me is out of the question because I always report the final turncount that the game spits out. As evidence, I always upload the epilogue reel.

A good example is in FE5. You defend chapter 19 for 14 turns, but the game always counts it as 15. You can't argue with the game if your final turncount is 180 turns instead of 179 like you expected it to be and you missed the SSS rank.

Edited August 8, 2011 by dondon151

[Florete]

It's a playthrough that holds efficiency in high regard nonetheless.

Awesome?

Same goes for you?

Yes, exact my reasoning has been more than "because I recorded it this way."

[dondon151]

Yes, exact my reasoning has been more than "because I recorded it this way."

That's entirely incorrect. My reasoning behind adding 1 turn on certain defend maps has always been because the game spits out the player's turncount log that way. As Balcerzak states, the game makes the final decision.

Edited August 8, 2011 by dondon151

[Florete]

A good example is in FE5. You defend chapter 19 for 14 turns, but the game always counts it as 15. You can't argue with the game if your final turncount is 180 turns instead of 179 like you expected it to be and you missed the SSS rank.

Is this not the same as my FE7 example, which I used in my favor?

That's entirely incorrect. My reasoning behind adding 1 turn on certain defend maps has always been because the game spits out the player's turncount log that way. As Balcerzak states, the game makes the final decision.

I actually do care, because I added 1 turn to my completions of 2-P and 3-7 in my 0% growths playthrough.

The last post in which you actually explained any reason said, "because I recorded it that way." Needless to say, I wasn't very convinced. Also, as I already stated, the game effectively gives me two different numbers anyway; the one in the actual chapter and the one at the end. Strangely enough, you haven't done much of anything to counter my actual points on this matter just yet.

[dondon151]

Is this not the same as my FE7 example, which I used in my favor?

Clearly, it's not, because this is my supporting argument. Let me spell this out for you: you get however many turns the game spits out at you, contrary to any expectations.

The last post in which you actually explained any reason said, "because I recorded it that way." Needless to say, I wasn't very convinced. Also, as I already stated, the game effectively gives me two different numbers anyway; the one in the actual chapter and the one at the end. Strangely enough, you haven't done much of anything to counter my actual points on this matter just yet.

What points have you made, other than assuming that counting to 8 on your fingers is identical to the game counting to 8 on its internal counter? What have you done to counter my points; namely, that the game very clearly displays a turncount for you - both an individual chapter count and an overall total? What if someone makes an arithmetic mistake? What if someone records a turncount incorrectly or neglects to record one at all?

Edited August 8, 2011 by dondon151

[Florete]

Clearly, it's not, because this is my supporting argument. Let me spell this out for you: you get however many turns the game spits out at you, contrary to any expectations.

But you used the same game mechanic (or "glitch" as I called it), only you changed how it looked to fit your argument. Clearly we're at a crossroads here.

What points have you made, other than assuming that counting to 8 on your fingers is identical to the game counting to 8 on its internal counter? What have you done to counter my points; namely, that the game very clearly displays a turncount for you, both an individual chapter count and an overall total?

You're right, because in the end it's largely opinion-based. What I should have said instead was: All you seem to be continuing with here is picking at minor things to keep the argument going like you're still in the right. Not that you're "wrong" necessarily; you can't be wrong on truly opinion-based matters. As you said before, either way is just as arbitrary as the other, so since you're not even a part of this draft (and I don't think you've ever joined one before, either), I ask again: do you care? If so, why? And no, your 0% growths run is not a reason.

What if someone makes an arithmetic mistake? What if someone records a turncount incorrectly or neglects to record one at all?

I've covered this, too; take the number the game spits out and subtract two. People who can't do that kind of arithmetic should not even be on the internet. Counting the extra turn won't get someone who records along the way to check the Epilogue if they don't already plan to, though I always double-check the Epilogue myself. Also, for simple arithmetic mistakes along the way, remember that people post their progress for everyone to see.

I don't see how neglecting to record a turn count applies here. I never said people shouldn't even look at the Epilogue, did I?

[PKL]

I just wrote part 1 and it got erased due to an error. Ugh i hate this phone. I really dont want to post all that again! Cant i recover it somehow?

[PKL]

I couldnt recover the post :(. Im at 3-E. I guess ill write bits then another bit so i dont have to retype a lot if its lost.

Edit:

Part 1

1-P 5/5

Micaiah gets fed kills. Eddie procs a wrath crit on ep 5.

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1-1 6/11

nolan and miccy beat stuff. I got the hand axe no boss kill.

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1-2 6/17

I used fenrir's 6 turn strat. Got the drop and thani. Thanks fenrir.

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1-3 7/24

rfof strat.

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1-4 7/31

rfof strat. But since sothe didnt find beastfoe mic had to.

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1-5 6/37

Volug fights as much as posible. Wrath miccy was amazing. Especially since she doubled most enemies and had a light crit forge. Scary.

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1-6-1 4/41

Adept sothe heads west. Resolve miccy to the armors on the northeast and tauro volug center.

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1-6-2 2/43

sothe gets shoved by tauro. Volug fights as much as he can for strike. Sothe adepts boss with his knife forge on ep.

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1-7 6/49

savior sothe carries mic and volug takes out enemies in the way. Sothe weakens boss and paragon volug takes the kill. Mic seizes

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1-8 5+4/58

I hate this chapter. Had to use tormod.

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1-9 4/62

19 as mic + resolve = win!

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1-E 6/68

miccy gets dropped and she kills the throne room. Bk kills jarod and sothe volug shove mic and she seizes. No wing or treasures.

Unit Lv HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Support Strike
Micaiah 1 32 5 21 14 20 25 9 21 A Sothe B light C staff
Sothe 8 36 22 5 25 26 20 16 11 A Micaiah S knives
Volug 16 50 14 2 15 13 14 11 5 S fang

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Part 2

2-P 8/8

nealuchi gets marcias lances.

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2-1 6/14

Recruited heather neph wrath crits.

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2-2 5+4/23

lucia penalty. Mordy was my free. Nealuchi trades neph some lances. Lucia and neph make way to the boss. Neph wrath crits armor in front of boss. Leanne vigors she wrath crits boss and lucia seizes.

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2-3 5/28

Geo gets a bexp level. He orkos boss with brave then seizes.

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2-E 1+4/33

elincia penalty. She stuns boss after the 300th try. Hate this chapter so much. Neph and calill get all of part 2 bexp. Forgot stats but neph was bexpd to 12 and calill to 10 iirc.

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Part 3

3-P 8/8

A lot of battle saving so rolf crit a few key enemies with his killer bow. Ike crits boss in turn 7 but skrimir decides to attack the general that was left. Omfg.

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3-1 10/18

bexpd rolf to 5.99. He has 23 spd which is more than enough. Mia was my free unit. Ike went south first to beat the generals then to the bushes where mia was blocking. Rolf kills a lot of stuff.

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3-2 4/22

neph gets celerity and the steel lance forge with 17 mt and 15 crit ilyana ferried. Buy a bunch of stuff. Then sell the card. Neph makes it to the boss then crits in turn 4 with her forge.

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3-3 11/33

neph goes to boss crates. Ike to the northeastern one. Rolf to the crown one. Gatrie stays in the bottom. Got blossom.

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3-4 8/41

neph gets bexp to promotion. She was at 20.89 so im not wasting the crown obv. Neph makes way for ike and ranulf. Last turn she impales boss and ike braves the other, opening the way for ranulf to arrive.

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3-5 2/43

Celerity neph gets vigored and she javelin crits the boss. Rolf got a perfect lvup from blossom.

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3-6 9/52

Paragon and beastfoe on volug. He obliterates everything to the east while miccy and sothe go north.

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3-7 12/64

built as much strike as posible for kyza janaff. Kyza had blossom. Recruited lehran.

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3-8 6/70

celerity neph with max mt max crit javelin forges destroyed everyone. Wildheart adept tear Janaff built strike. Kyza had blossom.---

3-9 4/74

Adept meteord the boss. Last hit was a crit (not rigged). Lucky bastard? Yes xd.

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3-10 6/80

javelin forge celerity neph goes to boss area. Ike rolf kysha janaff beat the generals. Most priests sd'd to neph in turn 2 ep xd. Janaff almost at s strike.

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3-11 7/87

celerity ike moves nonstop towards boss. Tibarn kills boss, ike equips slim sword ane seizes. Janaff reached S strike mid chapter.

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3-12 4/91

Bexpd volug to 31 so he capped spd. He has 19 str which is awesome. Tauro helped a lot in his side. Volug had wildheart. He reached ss strike.

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3-13 3/94

Olivi grass 1st turn. Second turn too and most laguz ignored untransformed volug to climb the ledge and attack sothe because volug had beastfoe. Next turn volug transforms and ORKOs ike. (Pass)

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3-E 5/99

Straightforward map. Kysha found rescue.

Unit Lv Hp Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Strike
Ike 1 54 29 6 32 30 15 28 11
Micaiah 7 35 6 25 15 23 31 11 26
Sothe 11 37 22 6 26 28 23 16 12
Volug 33 65 19 5 18 18 29 13 10 SS
Calill 4 45 16 29 26 30 30 19 27
Nephenee 9 55 30 15 35 34 28 32 28
Kyza 24 61 15 3 14 15 19 14 9 A
Tauroneo 19 42 25 12 25 23 19 24 17
Janaff 30 58 17 2 20 17 30 12 8 S
Rolf 4 52 29 9 33 29 25 28 19

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Part 4 team distribution:

Silver: Micaiah Sothe Calill Volug
Greil: Ike Nephenee Kyza
Hawk: Janaff Tauroneo Rolf

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Expenditures:

Dracoshield: Volug

Energy Drop: Volug

Seraph Robe: Micaiah

Seraph Robe: Nephenee

Seraph Robe: Calill

Dracoshield: Nephenee

Edited August 11, 2011 by PegKnightLover

[Whitefang]

If I might offer an opinion on Defend chapters, I will do so.

Sometimes (Chapter 17/18 of FE7 comes to mind), you can end those types of chapters early by killing the boss or routing the enemies. Therefore, it seems prudent to reward a draft player with those turns that are saved. He or she went above and beyond expectations.

In Radiant Dawn, however, it seems arbitrary, but I would encourage the additional turn to be added, simply for compatibility (and to avoid confusion about when to add in an extra turn for defend chapters) with the games where it is possible to end defend chapters early.