Sequel Maybe?

[BrightBow]

I will give it a try then, because my reasons differ from Grandkitty anyway.

For clarification, Pellas didn't sign the contract on screen:

Pelleas: That's the treaty I signed on the day of my coronation. I don't see how this pertains to--

Anyway

First: Lekain said that the contract needs to be signed with blood. Pellas can't be that stupid, trusted advisor or not.

Lekain: "In truth, this wonderful scrap of parchment is a blood pact. Once you sign the paper in blood, you can never break the terms of the pact!"

I took those above from GameFAQs btw.

Second: Pellas isn't even the legitimate king. How can the blood pact even work? besides with the themes of the previous games, about how all people slaves, commoners and nobles are born equal,

I don't see how even if he was king he should have this kind of power over the people. They would need to elaborate a bit before I just swallow that.

But hey, maybe the Blood Pact only works because the people consider Pellas their king. If they wouldn't think so or maybe not consider themselves Daeins they may not even be affected and so the only way to evade it would be to give up ones national identity.

Unfortunately something like this is nowhere said. So for the most important plot element of part 3, we just have to assume it just makes sense somehow. Great...

Third: So the people of Daein have to stop the army of Sanaki from passing through Daein.

A lot of the dialog seems to suggest that Daein will be doomed regardless of whether they try to stop the army or allow them to stop Lekain.

Sothe: No matter what happens, the end result remains the same: the obliteration of Daein.

They also relized that they can stop the pact by killing Lekain:

Micaiah: It's possible, but very difficult. We'll need not only to hunt down the senator, but find the document, with no idea where to start. Daein could be annihilated in the time it would take to look.

So why are they choosing the only possible option that doesn't allow them to win? They just die pointlessly as slaves from the hated Begnion empire. Good job, Micaiah!

Even if the chance to stop the senators and destroy their pact is slim, it's still the only chance left. And even if they fail at last they die as free people and will stop the senators from ever harming someone like this again.

There is nothing to gain from what they did.

But even Kurt and Nailah switch sides as if evening out the sides would do any good besides maximizing the losses of Sanaki's troops and lowering the chances to stop Lekain.

Maybe Micaiah just likes coloring her heels with the blood of her enemies and allies.

Ok, now I'm really too tired but I hope this makes at last some sense.

Edited August 10, 2011 by BrightBow

[Florete]

Anyway

First: Lekain said that the contract needs to be signed with blood. Pellas can't be that stupid, trusted advisor or not.

Lekain: "In truth, this wonderful scrap of parchment is a blood pact. Once you sign the paper in blood, you can never break the terms of the pact!"

Though I'd agree for the most part, it could be understood that Pelleas may have thought the signing in blood by both parties was just a formality of sorts, a declaration of trust. Never explained in game and not a great explanation as it is, but it could work.

Second: Pellas isn't even the legitimate king. How can the blood pact even work? besides with the themes of the previous games, about how all people slaves, commoners and nobles are born equal.

So I don't see how even if he was king, he should have this kind of power over the people. They would need to elaborate a bit before I just swallow that without explanation.

But hey, maybe the Blood Pact only works because the people consider Pellas their king. If they wouldn't think so or maybe not consider themselves Daeins they may not even be affected and so the only way to evade it would be to give up ones national identity. Unfortunately something like this is nowhere said so for the most important plot element of part 3 we just have to assume it just makes sense somewhere.

I don't think being the legitimate heir matters. He was sworn in as king of Daein and rules over the people. That's all they need. When Pelleas dies the mark of the pact goes to Micaiah because she then becomes the most powerful person in Daein despite no one so much as thinking she's part of any Daein royal family.

It may not be explained outright, but I hardly think this is tough enough to interpret that it needed to be spelled out for us.

Third: So the people of Daein have to stop the army of Sanaki from passing through Daein.

A lot of the dialog seems to suggest that Daein will be doomed regardless of whether they try to stop the army or allow them to stop Lekain.

Sothe: No matter what happens, the end result remains the same: the obliteration of Daein.

They also relized that they can stop the pact by killing Lekain:

Micaiah: It's possible, but very difficult. We'll need not only to hunt down the senator, but find the document, with no idea where to start. Daein could be annihilated in the time it would take to look.

So why are they choosing the only possible option that doesn't allow them to win? They just die pointlessly as slaves from the hated Begnion empire. Good job, Micaiah!

Even if the chance to stop the senators and destroy their pact is slim, it's still the only chance left. And even if they fail at last they die as free people and will stop the senators from ever harming someone like this again.

There is nothing to gain from what they did the end.

But even Kurt and Nailah switch sides as if evening out the sides would do any good besides maximizing the losses of Sanaki's troops and lowering the chances to stop Lekain.

Maybe Micaiah just likes coloring her heels with the blood of her enemies and allies.

Ok, now I'm really too tired but I hope this makes at last some sense.

If they defy Begnion, they all die. Without question. If they obey Begnion, they stand a chance for now. The longer they remain loyal, the longer they have to find a way out of the pact. Sothe's line should probably be seen as hyperbole because of how slim their chances of survival really are. As for the choice of going against the Senators, Lekain mentions that they have spies "in every corner of Tellius." Combine that with Rewarp and the pact could be invoked within a day of Daein's betrayal. Not a great idea for someone who is desperate to save their country as Micaiah is.

I didn't really understand Kurth, Nailah, and Rafiel fighting on Daein's side but it's not too important anyway.

[Lord Raven]

I don't think being the legitimate heir matters. He was sworn in as king of Daein and rules over the people. That's all they need. When Pelleas dies the mark of the pact goes to Micaiah because she then becomes the most powerful person in Daein despite no one so much as thinking she's part of any Daein royal family.

Yeah (agreeing), Pelleas signed with his own blood -- clearly not of the Daein royal bloodline. But I reckon the reason Micaiah got the mark is because the senators probably saw the situation -- in which Pelleas commits suicide to destroy the Blood Pact -- happening in the near future and decided to use their magic in some way so that Micaiah got it afterwards. Just as a failsafe.

I didn't really understand Kurth, Nailah, and Rafiel fighting on Daein's side but it's not too important anyway.

I assume it's because Volug is with Micaiah, and Nailah/Rafiel were there when they helped liberate Daein. On top of Kurth being with Almedha.

[BrightBow]

Though I'd agree for the most part, it could be understood that Pelleas may have thought the signing in blood by both parties was just a formality of sorts, a declaration of trust. Never explained in game and not a great explanation as it is, but it could work.

I find that too hard to swallow without any kind of confirmation.

I don't think being the legitimate heir matters. He was sworn in as king of Daein and rules over the people. That's all they need. When Pelleas dies the mark of the pact goes to Micaiah because she then becomes the most powerful person in Daein despite no one so much as thinking she's part of any Daein royal family.

It may not be explained outright, but I hardly think this is tough enough to interpret that it needed to be spelled out for us.

Almaheda said that the mark was still on Pellas arm

Almedha:The mark is still on his wrist. My son's death was in vain!

I'm sure the mark didn't travel even though there is an image with Micaiah having the mark but I'm sure it's unused outside of the Soundtest. If there was a transfer like that I would say the mechanics would be oblivious enough but without it I can't agree. Having to fill most of the open questions with my own unconfirmed theories isn't very satisfactory to me.

If they defy Begnion, they all die. Without question. If they obey Begnion, they stand a chance for now. The longer they remain loyal, the longer they have to find a way out of the pact. Sothe's line should probably be seen as hyperbole because of how slim their chances of survival really are. As for the choice of going against the Senators, Lekain mentions that they have spies "in every corner of Tellius." Combine that with Rewarp and the pact could be invoked within a day of Daein's betrayal. Not a great idea for someone who is desperate to save their country as Micaiah is.

Micaiah doesn't act like she thinks she can still find a way out of the pact.

Micaiah: You're right. If we can stand our ground, there will be hope for another day. Each day that Daein survives is another day we'll have earned for it!

She also calls the battle "hopeless". I would put my money on joining the Apostle.

They have to move against the senators which will trigger the pact one way or another. Even if they win they will just stay slaves for all eternity and the senators can keep doing as they please. If they break the pact they may as well do it now because a better opportunity (bad as it may be) won't come any time soon.

Of course there is also a loophole to the pact but Naesala apparently didn't feel like sharing and Micaiah's gang is too stupid to figure it out themselves.

I didn't really understand Kurth, Nailah, and Rafiel fighting on Daein's side but it's not too important anyway.

Also if main characters suddenly switch sides I do consider this very important. I can cut some slack for Jill and Zihark for using the same dialog in their recruitment even though the situation is entirely different then in 3-6 but they are in an entirely different league.

Edited August 10, 2011 by BrightBow

[Florete]

Yeah (agreeing), Pelleas signed with his own blood -- clearly not of the Daein royal bloodline. But I reckon the reason Micaiah got the mark is because the senators probably saw the situation -- in which Pelleas commits suicide to destroy the Blood Pact -- happening in the near future and decided to use their magic in some way so that Micaiah got it afterwards. Just as a failsafe.

I don't think any "magic" was involved. Micaiah got the mark simply for being at the highest point of power in Daein.

I assume it's because Volug is with Micaiah, and Nailah/Rafiel were there when they helped liberate Daein. On top of Kurth being with Almedha.

This is good. They also helped Kurth out back in part 1.

I find that too hard to swallow without any kind of confirmation.

That's why I said it wasn't great. But also remember; Begnion chose Pelleas specifically. They knew they could use him. I didn't think of this before, but when you look at it that way, it kind of makes sense. He's a gullible kid and his trusted adviser told him it was okay.

Almaheda said that the mark was still on Pellas arm

Almedha:The mark is still on his wrist. My son's death was in vain!

I'm sure the mark didn't travel even though there is an image with Micaiah having the mark but I'm sure it's unused outside of the Soundtest. If there was a transfer like that I would say the mechanics would be oblivious enough but without it I can't agree. Having to fill most of the open questions with my own unconfirmed theories isn't very satisfactory to me.

It didn't transfer immediately, but Sothe and Micaiah have a conversation later where they note that the mark is fading from Micaiah. I don't think it's outright stated, but again, that's not always necessary to do, and in this case there probably just wasn't an appropriate time to mention it.

Micaiah doesn't act like she thinks she can still find a way out of the pact.

Micaiah: You're right. If we can stand our ground, there will be hope for another day. Each day that Daein survives is another day we'll have earned for it!

She also calls the battle "hopeless". I would put my money on joining the Apostle.

Even in despair, one can still choose the option that shows the most hope. I don't see a problem here; they knew their chances were slim to none but they still wanted to do whatever was best for the survival of Daein.

They have to move against the senators which will trigger the pact one way or another. Even if they win they will just stay slaves for all eternity and the senators can keep doing as they please. If they break the pact they may as well do it now because a better opportunity (bad as it may be) won't come any time soon.

Except for the part where an opportunity did come and they were able to break the pact without the entire country dying. Good thing they waited. Ironically enough, what Begnion forced Daein to do is what caused this opportunity to appear.

Of course there is also a loophole to the pact but Naesala apparently didn't feel like sharing and Micaiah's gang is too stupid to figure it out themselves.

Hm?

Also if main characters suddenly switch sides I do consider this very important. I can cut some slack for Jill and Zihark for using the same dialog in their recruitment even though the situation is entirely different then in 3-6 but they are in an entirely different league.

How does it affect the story at large? The only important thing I can see is Kurth being in the battle means that the last nation of Tellius (Goldoa) has joined the war, but he could have been on either side.

[grandjackal]

Izuka is the one who (apparently) found him an re-united him with his mother. It's made very clear in part 1 that he trusts Izuka. This is obviously a mistake on his part, but as far as story-writing goes there's nothing inherently wrong with it.

There is, because part 1, Izuka comes off as pretty ruthless, what with ideas like poisoning water supplies. Granted these ideas would have made the war easier, but it just shows Izuka, someone who was a complete stranger to this supposed orphan who just happened to reunite him with his "mother", is this thirsty to get him to his throne, I would be probably start to have at least some minor doubts about the mindset of this person. Just saying that Izuka probably showed some colors of himself that normally would have seemed uncharacteristic to what Pelleas usually expects from him, and those colors weren't exactly positive.

Unfortunately I don't remember that scene so I can't comment.

Well no one else seemed to know about it until he brought it up.

Where would you have gone instead? As far as gameplay goes, they needed some way of getting Daein involved in the war. The entirety of part 1 is about them falling into Begnion's trap, so even if the particular scene where Pelleas signs the pact is a little off it still works well as a way to force them into the battle. Plus, them just liberating their country without a hitch and being gone for the rest of the game would not have been interesting at all.

Daien's still not in the best of shape, and it's not like the freedom fighters removed the entire might of the Begnion army out of their country. They could probably still have strong-armed them into doing it. Or hell, how about Sothe convinces Pelleas to ally up with Gallia? How about an inner power struggle in Daien deciding their course of actions (as Izuka still has his own plans, and is basically Grima Wormtongue in this situation. It's not like Izuka's only job was to get Pelleas on the throne, he could have still easily manipulated him.). Here, let me give a brief lil' idea blurb here.

Sothe: We must aid Gallia's efforts.

Izuka: Begnion could very well walk over us after crush Galia! We're in no state to fight against Begnion! Even if we were to defeat Daien, what next? In our even more squandered state, Crimea comes in and takes vengeance for Ashnard's war? It's unreasonable. Allyship with Begnion is our only safe way out of this.

Sothe: Peace? We just forced them out of the country, and you want them back!?

Izuka: Allyship is not ownership. Your mind might want one thing, but Daien comes first!

Pelleas: Izuka's right.

Michaiah: Blood, Death and Fire!

This would even allow part 3 Begnion to look scarier than they were made to be (as Begnion, what with Septimus the cowardly border guards, or Lombrosso the stupidly reckless and disobedient, or the fact they had no air patrol to stop the drop on their supply line), since now Begnion's military battle strategy can be more than "Have Zelgius's forces hove around like a giant deathblob to scare them away". Gallia, the self-admittedly poor at military strategy army would be on the backfoot, request aid from Crimea (which the choice of the nobles and Elincia could have been what triggered part 2, an thus easier ties it in to part 3), which during that time would have spurned a near full retreat in waiting for Crimea's response (instead of magic cave to Goldoa), Begnion at that time dicks around a bit too much in Crimea territory, Crimea finally allies with Galia.

Bam. 2 minutes.

We don't know the details surrounding Naesala's signing of the blood pact so it's quite unfair to call him stupid.

I recall the issue was that his father may have signed it. Which case, why did HE sign it?

What? Part 3 for a while doesn't even involve Daein. It's only, like, 3-6, 3-7, and then from 3-11 to the end, if I remember correctly.

It still involved Daien, and it was half of the entire 1 strategy Begnion had, that being "Daein and Zelgius deathblob sandwich". If not for Daien, Gallia would have ran circles around Begnion

I'll take a legitimate explanation over "yeah everyone got sick and died except this one crazy dude," thank you.

I would too normally, but Ashnard's supposed to be the stuff of legends here. Sometimes things work out for the better.

You don't mention any legitimate story issues here so there's not much for me to say. Part 1 is not my favorite part, either, but I like for what it is; an intro to the rest of the game and story.

I know I don't, but that's because part 1's pretty simple. Evil empire has hold on nation, freedom fighters break that hold, break out the champagne and roll credits. I just wish the characters had a bit more to themselves rather than "Fighting evil is good".

As for the rebellion, it's reasonable to think that plenty of Crimeans would not see Elincia as a capable ruler with how she was raised, how young she is, and also for the fact that most of the continent didn't even know of her existence for so long.

True, but it's not like she was completely incompetent either. Maybe it's just me, but I'd wait for hte nation to at least recover first before I start making judgements about the one ruling it all. If it hasn't recovered at all (and Crimea did),THEN I would believe it a bit better. All that aside though, it's not like the rebellion happened for no/a stupid reason, so I'm not totally bashing on it. More just an opinion thing.

Yeah, start with it, since it's clearly explained that Rafiel showing up in Gallia and revealing the truth behind the Serenes massacre is the reason for the war.

Why would this piss off the Beast Tribe though? Gallia's the one trying to put on the face of laguz rights. Going to war over something that happened a good while ago, as tragic and horrible as it was, would seem hair trigger for the nation trying to be diplomatic here. I can see how this would infuriate Phoenicis and Kilvas to the point of bloodshed, but they already hate Begnion as it is and raid them constantly. There's also Sanaki, of which they at least know is trying to make progress in Begnion. Unless Lekain sent them pictures of him eating herons with a fork, setting the forest on fire himself, and then an execution line of beast tribe laguz with him giving the thumbs up, it seems an overraction for a dude like Caineghis.

Yes, because choosing between death for the entire country and a chance of survival is not the easiest situation to be in. I can imagine the signing of the pact being a moment of stupidity on Pelleas' part, but he was never supposed to be some political genius.

Me either, but dude...Read it first. Ffs Pelleas.

What?

Oh, were they competent? I'm supposed to believe Begnion is this mighty fierce empire, and what do we get? A border guard that is cowards towards the people at the very border they are supposed to guard, people that fall for ruses of sneaky people when the enemy is literally right next door and they KNOW it, a military that for the most part got it's ass kicked by a group of sellswords (Granted it's Ike's group but still, they shouldn't seem like power rangers in the might of an empire), and had only 1 real strategy that hinged on the hopes that one man was stupid enough to forget to read things. Then, when Ike has to go fight through Daien in the latter portion of part 3, Begnion takes this advantage of distraction to...Do nothing but wait for Ashera. Granted, Ashera was the end all things aside from them thing, but come on...You were literally praying to not lose this war. Besides, they were gonna be next anyways, so...Yeah. Woopy.

Are you serious? If Ashera had been awakened by the flames of war, she would have destroyed all of Tellius. Of course Dheginsea would want to prevent that in any way possible. It's not the cover up that caused problems, it was simply beorc and laguz not being able to get along with each other and continuing to fight.

Then what was the point of the cover-up if it would have resulted in the same thing? The difference was just the wording. "The dark god will destroy all if we go to war, so be good boys and girls for Ashera's sake" and "Quit fighting, or Ashera's gonna kill all of us". They at least knew who Ashera was, they would have maybe listened harder.

Maybe. Just seems silly they would have a cover up when they could have just said the truth, and nothing would have changed.

[Florete]

There is, because part 1, Izuka comes off as pretty ruthless, what with ideas like poisoning water supplies. Granted these ideas would have made the war easier, but it just shows Izuka, someone who was a complete stranger to this supposed orphan who just happened to reunite him with his "mother", is this thirsty to get him to his throne, I would be probably start to have at least some minor doubts about the mindset of this person. Just saying that Izuka probably showed some colors of himself that normally would have seemed uncharacteristic to what Pelleas usually expects from him, and those colors weren't exactly positive.

Again, Pelleas is gullible. This is seen more than once. A mistake on the part of the character is not a mistake on the part of the writer.

Daien's still not in the best of shape, and it's not like the freedom fighters removed the entire might of the Begnion army out of their country. They could probably still have strong-armed them into doing it. Or hell, how about Sothe convinces Pelleas to ally up with Gallia? How about an inner power struggle in Daien deciding their course of actions (as Izuka still has his own plans, and is basically Grima Wormtongue in this situation. It's not like Izuka's only job was to get Pelleas on the throne, he could have still easily manipulated him.). Here, let me give a brief lil' idea blurb here.

...

Are you seriously suggesting they ally with Begnion willingly? That is completely asinine. Not only was Begnion keeping their country in oppression for the last three years, they are still reconstructing their country and have no reason to go against Crimea and Gallia. Sothe in particular would not stand for this after all he says about Ike and how he fought in the Mad King's War.

Also, if they had aided Begnion willingly, what excuse would there be to join up with everyone else for part 4?

Try again.

I recall the issue was that his father may have signed it. Which case, why did HE sign it?

Again, we don't know the situation.

It still involved Daien, and it was half of the entire 1 strategy Begnion had, that being "Daein and Zelgius deathblob sandwich". If not for Daien, Gallia would have ran circles around Begnion

And so Begnion forces Daein into the war on their side.

I would too normally, but Ashnard's supposed to be the stuff of legends here. Sometimes things work out for the better.

Yeah, like RD's explanation. Ashnard is not not inherently anything "legendary," he may only be seen that way until the truth comes out that he used clever trickery.

True, but it's not like she was completely incompetent either. Maybe it's just me, but I'd wait for hte nation to at least recover first before I start making judgements about the one ruling it all. If it hasn't recovered at all (and Crimea did),THEN I would believe it a bit better. All that aside though, it's not like the rebellion happened for no/a stupid reason, so I'm not totally bashing on it. More just an opinion thing.

It had been three years. That's plenty of time, really.

Why would this piss off the Beast Tribe though? Gallia's the one trying to put on the face of laguz rights. Going to war over something that happened a good while ago, as tragic and horrible as it was, would seem hair trigger for the nation trying to be diplomatic here. I can see how this would infuriate Phoenicis and Kilvas to the point of bloodshed, but they already hate Begnion as it is and raid them constantly. There's also Sanaki, of which they at least know is trying to make progress in Begnion. Unless Lekain sent them pictures of him eating herons with a fork, setting the forest on fire himself, and then an execution line of beast tribe laguz with him giving the thumbs up, it seems an overraction for a dude like Caineghis.

Because it was largely Laguz vs Begnion, not Birds vs Begnion. Gallia and Phoenicis are allies. Plus, Rafiel's message alone didn't cause them to declare war, it was the laguz sending messengers, not getting responses and eventually having their messenger killed that caused war to start.

As for Sanaki, all they knew was that she had been "bedridden." The Senators were already taking care of her, so to speak.

Oh, were they competent? I'm supposed to believe Begnion is this mighty fierce empire, and what do we get? A border guard that is cowards towards the people at the very border they are supposed to guard, people that fall for ruses of sneaky people when the enemy is literally right next door and they KNOW it, a military that for the most part got it's ass kicked by a group of sellswords (Granted it's Ike's group but still, they shouldn't seem like power rangers in the might of an empire), and had only 1 real strategy that hinged on the hopes that one man was stupid enough to forget to read things. Then, when Ike has to go fight through Daien in the latter portion of part 3, Begnion takes this advantage of distraction to...Do nothing but wait for Ashera. Granted, Ashera was the end all things aside from them thing, but come on...You were literally praying to not lose this war. Besides, they were gonna be next anyways, so...Yeah. Woopy.

It's not like they won every battle. They were forced to retreat, which is what caused 3-6, which is Daein stopping the retreating Gallian army. The Begnion Senators are pretty standard overconfident villains and their up against not only Ike's group, but Gallia and Phoenicis, and eventually more of Crimea and Begnion's own royal guard (although that's when Daein has taken over the fight). Begnion may not be perfect, but they sure caused problems.

Then what was the point of the cover-up if it would have resulted in the same thing? The difference was just the wording. "The dark god will destroy all if we go to war, so be good boys and girls for Ashera's sake" and "Quit fighting, or Ashera's gonna kill all of us". They at least knew who Ashera was, they would have maybe listened harder.

They wanted to pass Ashera off as a loving God, someone to look up to who protects them, and the "Dark God" as the enemy. They didn't want the entire nation to think that their Goddess was cruel enough to kill them all in an instant. They didn't want the people living in fear.

[Anouleth]

There is, because part 1, Izuka comes off as pretty ruthless, what with ideas like poisoning water supplies. Granted these ideas would have made the war easier, but it just shows Izuka, someone who was a complete stranger to this supposed orphan who just happened to reunite him with his "mother", is this thirsty to get him to his throne, I would be probably start to have at least some minor doubts about the mindset of this person. Just saying that Izuka probably showed some colors of himself that normally would have seemed uncharacteristic to what Pelleas usually expects from him, and those colors weren't exactly positive.

Pelleas is supposed to be a naive, trusting person:

Micaiah: Why? You're the prince. Why should you need any man's permission, much less your own advisor's?

Pelleas: Yes, I am the prince, but... I owe much to Izuka. He taught me everything I needed to know to become a proper member of the royal family. He contacted Tauroneo and the other senators from Daein for help. Without his power and influence, I would never have mustered an army--or met my own mother.

Micaiah: I see. You were alone...

Pelleas: Pardon?

Micaiah: And then Izuka reunited you with your mother, gave you a place to stay, and provided you with a reason to live. And you feel you owe him a debt of gratitude for ending your loneliness. That is why you try to do as you are told--as Izuka wishes.

Even if he might disagree with Izuka sometimes Pelleas thinks that overall he's trying to help him.

Well no one else seemed to know about it until he brought it up.

That's because it doesn't exist. Lekain warped in to tell Pelleas about the Pact and order him to attack the Laguz. Not for him to sign it.

Daien's still not in the best of shape, and it's not like the freedom fighters removed the entire might of the Begnion army out of their country. They could probably still have strong-armed them into doing it. Or hell, how about Sothe convinces Pelleas to ally up with Gallia? How about an inner power struggle in Daien deciding their course of actions (as Izuka still has his own plans, and is basically Grima Wormtongue in this situation. It's not like Izuka's only job was to get Pelleas on the throne, he could have still easily manipulated him.). Here, let me give a brief lil' idea blurb here.

Perhaps Begnion doesn't have enough troops to fight everyone else on the continent? I mean, the only alternative I can think of is that Crimea threatens to attack Daein. Daein asks Begnion to intervene. But that still doesn't explain why they would need to help Begnion: Begnion would be the one helping them. I'm sure that no matter what way you slice it, before the blood pact, the best thing for Daein to do is avoid another war.

I recall the issue was that his father may have signed it. Which case, why did HE sign it?

He was probably tricked into it, as Pelleas was and as Ashnard's predecessor was.

It still involved Daien, and it was half of the entire 1 strategy Begnion had, that being "Daein and Zelgius deathblob sandwich". If not for Daien, Gallia would have ran circles around Begnion

Actually, in 3-6, the Gallia army is retreating across the river after Skrimir was defeated in single combat by Zelgius.

Oh, were they competent? I'm supposed to believe Begnion is this mighty fierce empire, and what do we get? A border guard that is cowards towards the people at the very border they are supposed to guard, people that fall for ruses of sneaky people when the enemy is literally right next door and they KNOW it, a military that for the most part got it's ass kicked by a group of sellswords (Granted it's Ike's group but still, they shouldn't seem like power rangers in the might of an empire), and had only 1 real strategy that hinged on the hopes that one man was stupid enough to forget to read things. Then, when Ike has to go fight through Daien in the latter portion of part 3, Begnion takes this advantage of distraction to...Do nothing but wait for Ashera. Granted, Ashera was the end all things aside from them thing, but come on...You were literally praying to not lose this war. Besides, they were gonna be next anyways, so...Yeah. Woopy.

One thing that's brought up in FE9 is that Begnion holds nobility in high regard. Thus, the commanders are often incompetent; they're there because they're the sons of noblemen, not because they're capable. Begnion is also disorganised. The Central Army is well led, but a lot of the other forces you fight are led by various nobles who wouldn't coordinate properly. Usually, the Greil Mercenaries don't go into open combat, they are used for diversions or more targeted attacks.

Towards the end of Part 3, Sephiran is freed by Zelgius and leads a rebellion. So that's why Begnion wasn't doing anything; they were in the middle of a civil war.

[grandjackal]

Again, Pelleas is gullible. This is seen more than once. A mistake on the part of the character is not a mistake on the part of the writer.

There's gullable, but then there's Pelleas having no initiative to do something simple. I'm not gonna sit here and believe they had him sign something while blindfolded. In fact, I could solve this one too. Again, keep in mind it's in private (proof being only Pelleas knew since no one elseknew until Pelleas brought it up). This isonly if, ONLY if wewere dead set on this Blood Pact idea, when I still find it completely unecessary.

Lekain: Good day, King Pelleas. I have arrived to offer you peace between us.

Izuka: Allow me to check that first. You're foolish to think we would trust you this quickly...Odd. I see nothing wrong with this. It really does appear to be a peace treaty.

Pelleas: Well then, perhaps I should check it.

Izuka: My King, you would doubt me?

Pelleas: I would. I lately have seen sides of you that I feel cannot be trusted. Let me see the document.

Lekain: You know...Young kings like you should be weary, if I may offer my advice to you as one politician to another. You are young and have a great future ahead of you. But that won't stop those from wanting you dead...

Pelleas: What're you saying?

Izuka: He's saying to sign the document. My King...

Pelleas: ...

There. Stupid enough to fall into a trap of meeting with Lekain basically alone (Also, didn't Lekain just show up unannounced?), but not so unbelievably dumb that he would not do something anyone with a functioning brain would do. Begnion couldn't lose the situation because they could still strong arm a kingless and demoralized Daien into action, or they get the documentation signed under threat of Pelleas being killed (because Lekain could totally destroy him along with Izuka, he's not exactly a joke as far as magicans go). I could believe Pelleas being a coward.

Are you seriously suggesting they ally with Begnion willingly? That is completely asinine. Not only was Begnion keeping their country in oppression for the last three years, they are still reconstructing their country and have no reason to go against Crimea and Gallia. Sothe in particular would not stand for this after all he says about Ike and how he fought in the Mad King's War.

This sounds a lot like what happened anyways. Pelleas has no reason to believe that Crimea wouldn't roll Daien over once the Begnion war is over if they aid Gallia, and if Begnion wins then after they're done with Gallia, they would definitely retake Daien again because they still know they're in a terrible state. Izuka could easily convince him of this. Pelleas isn't a long time friend of Sothe. He wasn't in the last war with Ike. Far as he knows, Ike was the guy who single handedly ruined his nation and killed his supposed father. Sothe's not king. Pelleas is. And Pelleas, as we know, is a moron, but is a moron who is completely seperated from the events of FE9. The only other option would be to stay neutral, but they don't have a clue that Gallia and it's vastly inexperienced army could defeat the empire that has lasted the longest time in the history of Tellius. That's a huge risk they'd be taking to be neutral.

Also, if they had aided Begnion willingly, what excuse would there be to join up with everyone else for part 4?

In essence, it wouldn't be a willing allyship with Begnion, not to mention this would obviously cause inner turmoil in Daien (as it had anyways). They would still join up because the allyship was more out of necessity than they wanted to (that, and Izuka purposefully kept Pelleas ignorant of the events of FE9).

And so Begnion forces Daein into the war on their side.

Of which they lucked out on when they didn't need to had Izuka done the job he was supposed to be doing.

Yeah, like RD's explanation. Ashnard is not not inherently anything "legendary," he may only be seen that way until the truth comes out that he used clever trickery.

Kinda why I said it's a matter of opinion.

Because it was largely Laguz vs Begnion, not Birds vs Begnion. Gallia and Phoenicis are allies. Plus, Rafiel's message alone didn't cause them to declare war, it was the laguz sending messengers, not getting responses and eventually having their messenger killed that caused war to start.

Which case it sounds more reasonable. Don't remember anything about a messenger getting killed though, or why they would send messengers unless they were on good terms until Begnion started getting out of control.

It's not like they won every battle. They were forced to retreat, which is what caused 3-6, which is Daein stopping the retreating Gallian army. The Begnion Senators are pretty standard overconfident villains and their up against not only Ike's group, but Gallia and Phoenicis, and eventually more of Crimea and Begnion's own royal guard (although that's when Daein has taken over the fight). Begnion may not be perfect, but they sure caused problems.

Yeah, and it was only because of a luck out in their 1 strategy working. They could have been better prepared then that is all I'm saying. They easily could have been. What if Pelleas read the documentation and refused to sign it? What if that pissed Daien off to help Gallia and making the situation 10 times worse? Even without Daien aiding in, this inexperienced army would have run circles around this supposed awesome empire of might and magic because they were desperately underprepared. It would have been like the Roman empire losing to Egypt in a war the Egyptians initiated.

They wanted to pass Ashera off as a loving God, someone to look up to who protects them, and the "Dark God" as the enemy. They didn't want the entire nation to think that their Goddess was cruel enough to kill them all in an instant. They didn't want the people living in fear.

So they went about this by telling them the exact opposite of the truth? And really, how is "War will have our goddess end our world" not a form or protection? How is that not a loving message? Is war good all of a sudden? "Ashera doesn't want us killing eachother, what a fear-mongering goddess". Does that sound right to you? Also, what if this supposed Dark God would be freed? Would Ashera really just sit back and do nothing? Loving goddess indeed.

[General Banzai]

FERD had a lot of problems with its plot and its writing was at times cringeworthy. But at the same time it tried a lot of new things and generally had the most epic story of the entire series, and so I can SOMEWHAT forgive its many errors.

As for the Blood Pact, I felt it was an interesting mechanic in regards to Daein, but it was just trash in regards to Kilvas. "Oh let's just eliminate all of Naesala's moral ambiguity and just say 'he had to do it lol'". Not to mention in PoR, when he was supposedly under the influence of the pact, he robbed Lekain's house on orders from Oliver. :V

[Anouleth]

As for the Blood Pact, I felt it was an interesting mechanic in regards to Daein, but it was just trash in regards to Kilvas. "Oh let's just eliminate all of Naesala's moral ambiguity and just say 'he had to do it lol'". Not to mention in PoR, when he was supposedly under the influence of the pact, he robbed Lekain's house on orders from Oliver. :V

If you commit genocide and contribute to slavery and don't have a good reason, that's not moral ambiguity.

In addition, he attacked Lekain's ships, not his house, and he doesn't take orders from Oliver. Oliver is a customer and he is providing a service :D ... and I don't have any doubt that he thought that he wouldn't be caught doing it.

Tanith

Hmph! We've seen their kind before. They fancy themselves pirates without a ship, but they're thieves plain and simple. Commander Sigrun is with the apostle, and it will take more than a few winged scavengers to get past her. Let's remain calm.

Clearly, Begnion doesn't think that the ravens are taking orders from Naesala, they think they're just opportunistic thieves.

[Florete]

There's gullable, but then there's Pelleas having no initiative to do something simple. I'm not gonna sit here and believe they had him sign something while blindfolded. In fact, I could solve this one too. Again, keep in mind it's in private (proof being only Pelleas knew since no one elseknew until Pelleas brought it up). This isonly if, ONLY if wewere dead set on this Blood Pact idea, when I still find it completely unecessary.

Cut it with your imaginary conversations. I don't care how smart you think Pelleas should have been, fact is he screwed up. People do that. And I find it funny that one the reasons people hate Micaiah is that she never screw up, then you come in here and say Pelleas is terrible because he screws up.

This sounds a lot like what happened anyways. Pelleas has no reason to believe that Crimea wouldn't roll Daien over once the Begnion war is over if they aid Gallia, and if Begnion wins then after they're done with Gallia, they would definitely retake Daien again because they still know they're in a terrible state. Izuka could easily convince him of this. Pelleas isn't a long time friend of Sothe. He wasn't in the last war with Ike. Far as he knows, Ike was the guy who single handedly ruined his nation and killed his supposed father. Sothe's not king. Pelleas is. And Pelleas, as we know, is a moron, but is a moron who is completely seperated from the events of FE9. The only other option would be to stay neutral, but they don't have a clue that Gallia and it's vastly inexperienced army could defeat the empire that has lasted the longest time in the history of Tellius. That's a huge risk they'd be taking to be neutral.

I made a mistake, because Crimea didn't join the war until Begnion passed through their country without permission (3-9). It was just the Laguz alliance and Greil Mercenaries vs Begnion. Daein has no place at all in such a war and the Laguz Alliance note that Daein's involvement seems very strange. Crimea has no reason to invade Daein as they already defeated Daein and gave it up to Begnion. Invading would be stupid and people like Sothe and Tauroneo know Elincia wouldn't do that anyway.

Pelleas has no familial attraction to Ashnard as he didn't know anything about him being the supposed son until very recently. He's a gullible idiot, but not so much that he'll enter a war he has no place in.

You're grasping at straws here.

Of which they lucked out on when they didn't need to had Izuka done the job he was supposed to be doing.

Huh?

Which case it sounds more reasonable. Don't remember anything about a messenger getting killed though, or why they would send messengers unless they were on good terms until Begnion started getting out of control.

They sent messengers to confirm Rafiel's story. They are smart enough to not just go bursting through Begnion's doors immediately.

Yeah, and it was only because of a luck out in their 1 strategy working. They could have been better prepared then that is all I'm saying. They easily could have been. What if Pelleas read the documentation and refused to sign it? What if that pissed Daien off to help Gallia and making the situation 10 times worse? Even without Daien aiding in, this inexperienced army would have run circles around this supposed awesome empire of might and magic because they were desperately underprepared. It would have been like the Roman empire losing to Egypt in a war the Egyptians initiated.

There's always going to be luck involved, as well as deceiving your opponent. Again, you're grasping at straws. It's easy enough to believe that the Blood Pact didn't outright say "You'll be forced to do whatever they say or all your people will die," but instead looked like some normal peace treaty.

So they went about this by telling them the exact opposite of the truth? And really, how is "War will have our goddess end our world" not a form or protection? How is that not a loving message? Is war good all of a sudden? "Ashera doesn't want us killing eachother, what a fear-mongering goddess". Does that sound right to you? Also, what if this supposed Dark God would be freed? Would Ashera really just sit back and do nothing? Loving goddess indeed.

I can't actually think of anything for that one so I'll have to concede this point.

[Xander]

I hope they make a sequel, this was my favorite continent in the series. Not to mention that clip with Ashunera had to be hinting at something...

[-Cynthia-]

There's gullable, but then there's Pelleas having no initiative to do something simple. I'm not gonna sit here and believe they had him sign something while blindfolded. In fact, I could solve this one too. Again, keep in mind it's in private (proof being only Pelleas knew since no one elseknew until Pelleas brought it up). This isonly if, ONLY if wewere dead set on this Blood Pact idea, when I still find it completely unecessary.

I don't think we can assume it was "private" so much as peace treaties generally aren't seen except by the king and his advisor. It's not like Micaiah would have been invited to the peace treaty signing necessarily.

Keep in mind that the contract was also probably cleverly worded not "LOL YOU'RE GOIN TO BE BEGNION'S BITCH!" Pelleas is probably not an expert on political documents, so he trusted his advisor, a sensible enough thing to do given his inexperience (and lack of self-confidence.)

There. Stupid enough to fall into a trap of meeting with Lekain basically alone (Also, didn't Lekain just show up unannounced?), but not so unbelievably dumb that he would not do something anyone with a functioning brain would do. Begnion couldn't lose the situation because they could still strong arm a kingless and demoralized Daien into action, or they get the documentation signed under threat of Pelleas being killed (because Lekain could totally destroy him along with Izuka, he's not exactly a joke as far as magicans go). I could believe Pelleas being a coward.

I couldn't, that's contrary to character. Pelleas is clearly willing to sacrifice himself for Daein.

This sounds a lot like what happened anyways. Pelleas has no reason to believe that Crimea wouldn't roll Daien over once the Begnion war is over if they aid Gallia, and if Begnion wins then after they're done with Gallia, they would definitely retake Daien again because they still know they're in a terrible state.

Izuka could easily convince him of this. Pelleas isn't a long time friend of Sothe. He wasn't in the last war with Ike. Far as he knows, Ike was the guy who single handedly ruined his nation and killed his supposed father. Sothe's not king. Pelleas is. And Pelleas, as we know, is a moron, but is a moron who is completely seperated from the events of FE9. The only other option would be to stay neutral, but they don't have a clue that Gallia and it's vastly inexperienced army could defeat the empire that has lasted the longest time in the history of Tellius. That's a huge risk they'd be taking to be neutral.

So they should ally with their former oppresors on the off-chance that Crimea might invade them for...some reason? Crimea invading Daein would have little to do with the war between the laguz and Begnion anyway because Crimea was neutral for most of the war anyway.

In essence, it wouldn't be a willing allyship with Begnion, not to mention this would obviously cause inner turmoil in Daien (as it had anyways). They would still join up because the allyship was more out of necessity than they wanted to (that, and Izuka purposefully kept Pelleas ignorant of the events of FE9).

What necessity? If Crimea actually looked to be invading Daein I suppose asking Begnion for help could make sense (though it really just opens them up to be Begnion's puppet state again, so I could easily see this as undesirable), but the fact is Crimea is just getting out of a civil war by the time Part 3 begins, they're in no shape to be invading anybody.

Which case it sounds more reasonable. Don't remember anything about a messenger getting killed though, or why they would send messengers unless they were on good terms until Begnion started getting out of control.

Countries send messengers to ones they're not necessarily firends with all the time. These messengers asked about the Serenes massacre, senators retiliated by killing the messengers. Easy to see how the situation would escalate quickly.

Yeah, and it was only because of a luck out in their 1 strategy working. They could have been better prepared then that is all I'm saying. They easily could have been. What if Pelleas read the documentation and refused to sign it? What if that pissed Daien off to help Gallia and making the situation 10 times worse? Even without Daien aiding in, this inexperienced army would have run circles around this supposed awesome empire of might and magic because they were desperately underprepared. It would have been like the Roman empire losing to Egypt in a war the Egyptians initiated.

Begnion is more powerful than the laguz nations, but their internal political struggles get in the way sometimes (senators not getting along with one another, the apostle business splitting the empire in two etc.) A unified Begnion probably wouldn't need to strongarm Daein and Kilvas via blood pacts, but Begnion's political system makes them less efficient overall.

So they went about this by telling them the exact opposite of the truth? And really, how is "War will have our goddess end our world" not a form or protection? How is that not a loving message? Is war good all of a sudden? "Ashera doesn't want us killing eachother, what a fear-mongering goddess". Does that sound right to you? Also, what if this supposed Dark God would be freed? Would Ashera really just sit back and do nothing? Loving goddess indeed.

It's important to note that Degh is very loyal to Ashera, presumably because Yune tried to end the world or whatever centuries ago andf Ashera helped stopped this. Not syaing he's right, but he's internally consistent.

Edited August 11, 2011 by -Cynthia-

[Anouleth]

Is there even much evidence that Pelleas can read? I mean, he's well-spoken, but he was also raised in the slums, in poverty. He is a Spirit Charmer and can use magic, but you probably don't need to be able to read to use a magic tome or become a Spirit Charmer. Perhaps Begnion uses a different written language or even a different dialect; perhaps he can read but not very well. And since these Blood Pacts are, well, magic, maybe they can say anything on them.

[grandjackal]

Cut it with your imaginary conversations. I don't care how smart you think Pelleas should have been, fact is he screwed up. People do that. And I find it funny that one the reasons people hate Micaiah is that she never screw up, then you come in here and say Pelleas is terrible because he screws up.

I am not one of these people. Part 3, she started to seem like a crazy person "because she just knew". Considering she's just some girl off the streets (as far as anyone knew at that point anyways) and suddenly she's the holy icon of Daien. It actually put a lot of her characteristics into question as to who she was. People may hate her because "she was right all along", but I blame that on Yune the Goddess of Plot Convenience. Michaiah was a character ruined by proxy you could say.

As for Pelleas, he didn't just screw up, he did something unbelievable. I know it's small, but...Ffs, you didn't even read it Pelleas!!

I made a mistake, because Crimea didn't join the war until Begnion passed through their country without permission (3-9). It was just the Laguz alliance and Greil Mercenaries vs Begnion. Daein has no place at all in such a war and the Laguz Alliance note that Daein's involvement seems very strange. Crimea has no reason to invade Daein as they already defeated Daein and gave it up to Begnion. Invading would be stupid and people like Sothe and Tauroneo know Elincia wouldn't do that anyway.

There was a power struggle that had occured in Crimea that says that Elincia might not have as much control as they thought, they couldn't have known that at the time and considering they have a council of nobles. For all they knew, Elincia wouldn't have had power for much longer.

Also, tell me once Pelleas listens to Tauroneo or Sothe.

Pelleas has no familial attraction to Ashnard as he didn't know anything about him being the supposed son until very recently. He's a gullible idiot, but not so much that he'll enter a war he has no place in.

Oh, but not so much he would read a fucking document some strange and high ranking magician hands him and tells him to sign? Speaking of gullable idiot though, that's basically how all of this could have been painted. Izuka simply convinces him that Crimea could invade, using the occuring power struggle and the "relevent" events of FE9 as his point. Izuka wasn't doing his job for some strange reason, so the Blood Contract happened when it was unecessary and unbelievable.

Also yeah, he had no familial attraction to Ashnard, but Pelleas was an orphan, having had no parents. He could have been part of a family (I don't think Izuka would have clued him in that Ashnard probably would have killed him), he could have had a much better and easier life. You wouldn't give that any thought when someone keeps harping on about this great hero who killed said "father" personally?

...Then again, it is Pelleas, who apparently has no brain in his skull. But seriously, Izuka could have done so much, and yet did so little.

Huh?

Ya know, the job Izuka had with making Pelleas Begnion's puppet? And how Lekain basically had to come in and do that job for him? And only succeeded because Pelleas momentarily was illiterate?

They sent messengers to confirm Rafiel's story. They are smart enough to not just go bursting through Begnion's doors immediately.

You make it sound like Gallia wanted to go to war immediately over something that had happened years ago and basically had no control over it in the present. I can understand war when the messenger gets murdered on arrival, but it's not like Gallia went up to Begnion and said "Tell me the truth so I can kick your ass". It just seems uncharacteristic of Caineghis to want war immediately.

There's always going to be luck involved, as well as deceiving your opponent. Again, you're grasping at straws. It's easy enough to believe that the Blood Pact didn't outright say "You'll be forced to do whatever they say or all your people will die," but instead looked like some normal peace treaty.

Now we're just walking into silly territory here. Looked like a peace treaty, what, was the actual pact written in invisible ink under it all? How does this pact actually work if the whole pact part isn't actually written? Can Lekain just have a blank piece of paper and do whatever he wants with it as long as he gets someone's blood signature on it? Did Pelleas not think when a peace treaty involved basically a blood sacrifice?

I don't think we can assume it was "private" so much as peace treaties generally aren't seen except by the king and his advisor. It's not like Micaiah would have been invited to the peace treaty signing necessarily.

It's a peace treaty. You'd think people would learn about that kind of thing, like that would be huge news.

Keep in mind that the contract was also probably cleverly worded not "LOL YOU'RE GOIN TO BE BEGNION'S BITCH!" Pelleas is probably not an expert on political documents, so he trusted his advisor, a sensible enough thing to do given his inexperience (and lack of self-confidence.)

Pelleas at least reads spellbooks. As cleverly worded as it could have been, I'm pretty sure at some point during that pact he would have come across things involving death, or obedience to. I doubt Pelleas would have just skimmed over it either.

There's lack of self-confidence, but then there's giving 0 effort in something you at least do as a hobby (that being reading).

I couldn't, that's contrary to character. Pelleas is clearly willing to sacrifice himself for Daein.

Odd little thought there actually, because now thinking about it, that would have actually been a clever plot twist. Lekain and Izuka assassinate Pelleas as he shows he's not doing anything they want. People's attention was more attracted to Michaiah anyways. then, coincidence, she would have done this anyways because "it's the right thing". Which by the way is another way Pelleas could have been convinced in the first place. People would believe Michaiah because throughout the reclamation of Daien she was heralded as the voice of the Goddess, and they'd have rallied around her anyways out of religious fervor. Pelleas would have been cool with that, because hey, she's been doing all the work so far and people like her better than him anyways.

Granted, that also would have been stupifying luck as well, but it just seems like Begnion could have had a better handle on something they had no chance of screwing up in the first place, starting with Izuka manipulating Pelleas from the start.

they should ally with their former oppresors on the off-chance that Crimea might invade them for...some reason? Crimea invading Daein would have little to do with the war between the laguz and Begnion anyway because Crimea was neutral for most of the war anyway.

Again, at that time there was a power struggle. They had no idea that the new people in charge (if it wound up that way) would have stayed neutral for too long, and Daien was in worse shape. Daien just recovered, Crimea's had 3 years despite an uprisng occuring. This would-be king could have easily decided that Daein wasn't done paying up.

What necessity? If Crimea actually looked to be invading Daein I suppose asking Begnion for help could make sense (though it really just opens them up to be Begnion's puppet state again, so I could easily see this as undesirable), but the fact is Crimea is just getting out of a civil war by the time Part 3 begins, they're in no shape to be invading anybody.

I'd qualify it more an uprising than a full blown civil war, considering how quick it ended (and it could have gone either way too, considering Ludveck was at Elincia's front door and invading the castle itself). While indeed they did suffer a bit, their 3 year recovery is probably still in a lot better shape than "We just got Begnion off us after we got our ass beat in the last war no less". Ludveck could have easily made Daien his legacy.

Begnion is more powerful than the laguz nations, but their internal political struggles get in the way sometimes (senators not getting along with one another, the apostle business splitting the empire in two etc.) A unified Begnion probably wouldn't need to strongarm Daein and Kilvas via blood pacts, but Begnion's political system makes them less efficient overall.

This does not explain why their defenses were in a horrible state, and that they only had 1 real army to mobilize. Political struggles are one thing, but military workings are another. Their military was also quite well out of order (Septimus going AWOL immediately and he was the commander of the border defense on the Gallian border, the Gallians of which he apparently has a phobia of, Lombrosso disobeying an order directly given to him, etc.). Zelgius was the only competent force in Begnion, and he didn't even have Begnion's best interest in mind.

It's important to note that Degh is very loyal to Ashera, presumably because Yune tried to end the world or whatever centuries ago andf Ashera helped stopped this. Not syaing he's right, but he's internally consistent.

He took the words of a person he supposedly is loyal to and lied about it. That doesn't sound too loyal to me, unless Ashera told him to lie. Considering she's the goddess of order, that sounds...Off.

[-Cynthia-]

It's a peace treaty. You'd think people would learn about that kind of thing, like that would be huge news

The public know the exact terms of all political documents?

Pelleas at least reads spellbooks. As cleverly worded as it could have been, I'm pretty sure at some point during that pact he would have come across things involving death, or obedience to. I doubt Pelleas would have just skimmed over it either.

There's lack of self-confidence, but then there's giving 0 effort in something you at least do as a hobby (that being reading).

How are you assuming Pelleas didn't read it? It's quite possible he came across something questionable, asked Izuka about it, then trusted his word on it.

You're also still ignoring the fact that A. Lgeal documents tend to be obscure about things anyway (which is why lawyers exist) and B. Of course Begnion would make the Blood Pact as obscure as they could to suit their own interests

Odd little thought there actually, because now thinking about it, that would have actually been a clever plot twist. Lekain and Izuka assassinate Pelleas as he shows he's not doing anything they want. People's attention was more attracted to Michaiah anyways. then, coincidence, she would have done this anyways because "it's the right thing". Which by the way is another way Pelleas could have been convinced in the first place. People would believe Michaiah because throughout the reclamation of Daien she was heralded as the voice of the Goddess, and they'd have rallied around her anyways out of religious fervor. Pelleas would have been cool with that, because hey, she's been doing all the work so far and people like her better than him anyways.

Why would Micaiah want war with the Laguz Alliance? She's clearly against it in principle at the start of 3-6. She can't team up with the Alliance pluasibly to fight Begnion either, peace and rebuilding are what's in Daein's best interests, not randomly inserting themselves in wars.

Again, at that time there was a power struggle. They had no idea that the new people in charge (if it wound up that way) would have stayed neutral for too long, and Daien was in worse shape. Daien just recovered, Crimea's had 3 years despite an uprisng occuring. This would-be king could have easily decided that Daein wasn't done paying up.

I'd qualify it more an uprising than a full blown civil war, considering how quick it ended (and it could have gone either way too, considering Ludveck was at Elincia's front door and invading the castle itself). While indeed they did suffer a bit, their 3 year recovery is probably still in a lot better shape than "We just got Begnion off us after we got our ass beat in the last war no less". Ludveck could have easily made Daien his legacy.

1. Why is Crimea invading Daein again?

2. The uprising is over before the Laguz Alliance war begins anyway, and asking for Begnion (their most recent oppressor's) help against a theoretical invastion makes no sense.

This does not explain why their defenses were in a horrible state, and that they only had 1 real army to mobilize. Political struggles are one thing, but military workings are another.

Not true. The game says (Levail specifically) that the nobles are too busy competing with each other to cooperate...and the nobles forces comprise a lot of Begnion's might. Add in things like senators forcing Zelgius to retreat in 3-3 and the apostle business splitting the army half after 3-10 and it's obvious to see the effects of politics on Begnion's military.

Their military was also quite well out of order (Septimus going AWOL immediately and he was the commander of the border defense on the Gallian border, the Gallians of which he apparently has a phobia of,

Begnion chooses their commanders based on nobility, not prowess, the game says this.

Lombrosso disobeying an order directly given to him, etc.).

Lombroso got the go ahead from a senator, the senators overrule Zelgius (we see this with Valtome as well).

I'm not saying the Begnion military system is efficient, but the various issues it has prevents it from crushing the Laguz Alliance too easily, despite its superiority. I thought the game did a good job demonstrating this actually.

Edited August 11, 2011 by -Cynthia-

[Acacia Sgt]

He was probably tricked into it, as Pelleas was and as Ashnard's predecessor was.

Actually, no, that isn't how it happened. Neasala had a Blood Pact not because he signed it, but rather that the previous king did and he inherited it when he became king. When Lekain is explaining the Blood Pact to Pelleas, the images used show winged people. This proves said king was Kilvas's, who after committing suicide was when Neasala became king (this is reinforced in... 3-4 I believe, before you're told about his betrayal, in that scene with Tibarn and Neasala with the former asking about telling him how the latter became king, since he considered somewhat weird or something), but most likely the Blood Pact was tied to the position, rather than the person, and so the pact was still valid.

[Florete]

Actually, no, that isn't how it happened. Neasala had a Blood Pact not because he signed it, but rather that the previous king did and he inherited it when he became king. When Lekain is explaining the Blood Pact to Pelleas, the images used show winged people. This proves said king was Kilvas's, who after committing suicide was when Neasala became king (this is reinforced in... 3-4 I believe, before you're told about his betrayal, in that scene with Tibarn and Neasala with the former asking about telling him how the latter became king, since he considered somewhat weird or something), but most likely the Blood Pact was tied to the position, rather than the person, and so the pact was still valid.

That response was referring to Naesala's predecessor.

[BrightBow]

This does not explain why their defenses were in a horrible state, and that they only had 1 real army to mobilize. Political struggles are one thing, but military workings are another. Their military was also quite well out of order (Septimus going AWOL immediately and he was the commander of the border defense on the Gallian border, the Gallians of which he apparently has a phobia of, Lombrosso disobeying an order directly given to him, etc.). Zelgius was the only competent force in Begnion, and he didn't even have Begnion's best interest in mind.

Is this really hard to see? Yeah, we have seen the senators covering Oliver's butt but we have also seen Oliver paying the raven's to steal from his fellow senators. They are all rivals, struggling for power and influence and ego. The head of the Begnion government is the apostle and empress. Since she was out of the picture with her substitute being missing the senators were free to do as they please. And they are too arrogant to realize what kind of treat the Laguz alliance is. And that the officers are frustrated about the senators arguments and don't have much faith to them as a result shouldn't be a surprise seeing how they probably have experienced the strength of the Laguz in the past.

Edited August 11, 2011 by BrightBow

[IGdood]

Sorry to interrupt, but back to the thread title, I'd like to see a Renaissance setting.