Schoolboy Mafia

[riariadne]

town hidden

[Zanarkin]

Slayer less so. Bro, drop me a line, and we can work on that arguing off the lynch bit.

Drops... line...?

[Snike]

town hidden

Yes, and your point is? It isn't my fault my mark was killed before I could find him. The fact that you guys decided to follow Sho sort of meant you dug your own grave, sir.

[Snike]

Drops... line...?

A PM. Or play Epic Mafia for a bit. It helps in NOC.

[Scarlet]

town hidden

Actually, a town hidden isn't that bad. An anti-town hidden that the town must kill to win is leagues more likely to be unbalanced than a town hidden could ever possibly be.

[Zanarkin]

A PM. Or play Epic Mafia for a bit. It helps in NOC.

I stopped after people play competitively retarded many times... Oh hey, yeah ummm vote slayer, i'm not mafia and i have no proof but he is mafia ( I wasn't). They lynched me... and town lost. A similar thing during an anonymous day... Boxxe says lynch slayer, and they did. they lost afterwards... No matter how much i explained how wrong it was i always got lynched from due to their ridiculous logic (if it can be called that). I also won many times... but i couldn't help it but feel sad when town would lose on fail logic. Specially when its obvious who the mafia is... Of course i did something really stupid once... but eh....

[riariadne]

Actually, a town hidden isn't that bad. An anti-town hidden that the town must kill to win is leagues more likely to be unbalanced than a town hidden could ever possibly be.

it's still not good

[Zanarkin]

If snike had come out in the open after killing Raymond it would be better. But i see Raymonds point, not knowing 1 townie is of no significance. After all mafia just needs to tie.

[Paperblade]

I still think the nerfed Godfather sucks, after both this and DT.

Edit: Hooray for winning without doing anything... again.

Double Edit: In an open theme game, it's not uncommon for mafia to claim their role flavor.

Edited September 12, 2011 by Paperkitty

[Radiant Dragon]

I agree that Godfather isn't a role that needs to be nerfed in a game with no Townies. With Townies however, is another matter altogether.

[Zkirsche]

I'm not trying to be arrogant but WRT Balance: It isn't unbalanced if the mafia team can get that thoroughly demolished by scumhunting. As soon as I picked Kay, you guys (excluding Slayer) basically rolled over and let yourselves get lynched. And you didn't even go after me after I popped out of nowhere. Did you honestly think I was going to get lynched after killing a Mafia, or that I just got 'lucky' on that shot?

What could I have done Snike, please explain what possible options there were at the end of that day. There was nothing but dragging on the inevitable. And I didn't choose you because you'd get protected. And tbh, I didn't think you had any other powers. Because once again, I didn't expect you to get such a fucking OP role.

roleblocker

Where the fuck did we have a roleblocker? You mean one charge of the flamethrower? Great.

a silencer

Minor at best. Only good lategame.

a weapon breaker

Requires us to find out if someone has a weapon.

a ninja

Again, not amazing.

two hitman variants

Which again, only come in handy if someone targets you. Although I admit I forgot about these past 3 things (aside from whiever mine falls under) because I was never reminded of them.

a priority driver

The only good role.

a godfather

A nerfed godfather.

and a twin role, which could have been used to 'clear' proto since twins are usually town roles here.

This requires people are stupid enough to assume a role makes a person clear/guilty, and ignores the fact that proto can't say who his twin is, and that Blitz knows his twin is evil.

That's a lot of firepower.

It really isn't, especially in the face of the overwhelmind number of protection and investigation roles you guys had. It was like trying to break a castle by throwing bananas at it.

And you know what, this is rich coming from the guy who had the most broken role in teh game by far. Rofl vigilante cop who skips the night. Might as well have given you a doctor ability to top it off: why not amirite?

Rein could have easily claimed driven, and we could have lynched SDS for it. But he didn't.

Because I told him to investigate self-safeguard because that was the only thing i coudl think of.

If you're going to complain about balance, then don't roll over and die.

I didn't roll over and die until you posted a pretty damning investigation on me.

The fact that you guys decided to follow Sho sort of meant you dug your own grave, sir.

We would have killed sho if Eclipse didn't troll us.

[Zkirsche]

And actually, I completely contest that we were found through scumhunting. You found out pariah via investigation. We lost a valuable SK kill per night and Slayer because of Sho's investigation, and then finally I was killed because you investigated me because I had lost all interest after my mafia team refused to help even after I asked them directly "What should I claim, I'm having trouble".

Edit: Also proto was killed because of his twin.

Edit2: Also, WRT to rein claiming he was driven, do you really think anyone would have believed him under the circumstances?

Edited September 12, 2011 by kirsche

[Radiant Dragon]

In order to choose who to investigate, scumhunting is necessary. Just because you were investigated doesn't mean that scumhunting didn't have anything to do with the lynch.

[eclipse]

Seriously. . .had the mafia won, I think I would've godkilled the lot of you. Relying on Pariah to drive your kills is sloppy play. I told you guys that you were playing badly in the mafia group thread, Kevin. When the host tells you something like that, it really is bad.

Mafia basics:

- Think of fakeclaims immediately. Write out skeletons, at the very least, by the end of N0.

- FFS, every single person needs to contribute. A mafia can't win with only one head.

- If the town starts showing inconsistency (hello Psych), call them out on it.

- If you are given fakeclaims, use them. I didn't skip every single book schoolboy for the lot of you to ignore it.

- Do research, especially if the host hints that the current game is modeled off a past one.

It's not that you didn't have a chance, it's that you all had to work for it, which you didn't.

[riariadne]

Snike was still ridiculously overpowered.

[Snike]

What could I have done Snike, please explain what possible options there were at the end of that day. There was nothing but dragging on the inevitable. And I didn't choose you because you'd get protected. And tbh, I didn't think you had any other powers. Because once again, I didn't expect you to get such a fucking OP role.

Uh, there's claim that there's a tailor, sir. Pull a Radiant.

Also funny. Someone forgot that my role inspection only applies if you don't have an item. AND that I wasn't intended to go after the mafia, but was redirected, thanks to your crew buying into Sho. Now who's fault was that?

Where the fuck did we have a roleblocker? You mean one charge of the flamethrower? Great.

One charge is more than enough to block a doctor/watcher.

Minor at best. Only good lategame.

Not necessarily. Smart use can lead to leadership failure on behalf of the town.

Requires us to find out if someone has a weapon.

well, it otherwise silences the target, so it is a win-win situation.

Again, not amazing.

It's pretty amazing when the only known information roles at the time are a watcher and tracker, sir. That just makes them useless for that night.

Which again, only come in handy if someone targets you. Although I admit I forgot about these past 3 things (aside from whiever mine falls under) because I was never reminded of them.

Nirvana bypasses docs, so it literally was a hitman kill.

Slayer's was a hit when the doctor died, which never happened, but could have, had people paid more attention.

The only good role.

Priority driver is ridiculously overpowered. Considering that Kay could drive herself with the kill, it basically meant you had a hit per night.

A nerfed godfather.

I will give you this. Though, when he was le tracked, it might've been a sign to go hit Psych. Or lynch him. ;/

This requires people are stupid enough to assume a role makes a person clear/guilty, and ignores the fact that proto can't say who his twin is, and that Blitz knows his twin is evil.

Uh, if they both claim twin, wouldn't that bypass the restriction?

It really isn't, especially in the face of the overwhelmind number of protection and investigation roles you guys had. It was like trying to break a castle by throwing bananas at it.

And you know what, this is rich coming from the guy who had the most broken role in teh game by far. Rofl vigilante cop who skips the night. Might as well have given you a doctor ability to top it off: why not amirite?

Before me

Martyr

Doctor

Kidnapper

2 cops

tracker

watcher

Look, that's about the same number of anti-town players to power power roles. Kidnapper isn't even that good, though, so really, there were 2/4 wrt protection and investigation. That isn't too intolerable, considering the various things you guys could to to mess around with results.

@ROFLVIG: Ok, so, I was supposed to hunt down a serial killer that was hidden, and kill them with my lightning. Then, I would be gone. But then D3 happened and the mafia literally supported the killer lynch. I was still hunting during the Day Phase for that hidden, despite what postgame says. So when Raymond was lynched, what was I supposed to do with my shot? This is a case of Nice Job Breaking it, Villain.

Secondly, if you held an item, you were immune to inspection, which you guys seem to ignore. All you needed to do to block me was carry something. Geez.

Because I told him to investigate self-safeguard because that was the only thing i coudl think of.

So you're calling my role super-OP when you can't even mount a passable counter-argument to a simple pointing out of the facts? =/

I didn't roll over and die until you posted a pretty damning investigation on me.

There are these things called tailors. You could claim one. I would have bought it, honestly.

We would have killed sho if Eclipse didn't troll us.

link plz

And actually, I completely contest that we were found through scumhunting. You found out pariah via investigation. We lost a valuable SK kill per night and Slayer because of Sho's investigation, and then finally I was killed because you investigated me because I had lost all interest after my mafia team refused to help even after I asked them directly "What should I claim, I'm having trouble".

Edit: Also proto was killed because of his twin.

Edit2: Also, WRT to rein claiming he was driven, do you really think anyone would have believed him under the circumstances?

I checked Kay because I had a read, and I got lucky. I pointed the finger at Rein because there was a sketchy report combined with his behaviour. I checked Core because I thought he was scummy. I checked you because you waited so long in providing a fakeclaim, which seemed scummy to me. Those were all based on reads.

I have to concede the point about the twin lynch.

The SK lynch was you guys believing Sho, and the mafia (yourself included) following him.

I think it was a bit town-sided, but only if you guys had played properly.

@Rein: You really shouldn't be complaining after that lackluster defense.

[riariadne]

That doesn't change anything.

[Snike]

That doesn't change anything.

you are also not paying attention to the limitations of my role.

- can't check anyone with items

-can be role blocked

-was not able to communicate until after I had my PR lifted

-can be night killed

-Can be tailored (LOOK IT'S A LEGITIMATE DEFENCE)

-useless if silenced.

[riariadne]

you are also not paying attention to the limitations of my role.

- can't check anyone with items

-can be role blocked

-was not able to communicate until after I had my PR lifted

-can be night killed

-Can be tailored (LOOK IT'S A LEGITIMATE DEFENCE)

-useless if silenced.

These all apply for most roles. Yours was still absurdly good. ;/

[Paperblade]

Snike's role was really good.

[Balcerzak]

Don't feel bad about the books, eclipse. I was going to fake-claim Harry Potter.

[Radiant Dragon]

These all apply for most roles. Yours was still absurdly good. ;/

So? One role does not make a faction broken, especially when it started the game Self-Aligned.

Was Snike's role really good? Yes. Too good? Possibly. Did it make you guys completely unable to win the game? Of course not. Fix your own bad play before you go blaming everything on eclipse.

I recall someone making a comment about you screwing over Slayer in this game for example, although I don't know the specifics of that. Also, do I have to remind you about how you screwed over Core in Ivalice Mafia because of your own selfishness and stupidity?

[eclipse]

For the "trolling" that Kevin is claiming. . .during the phase when Pariah was out camping, she didn't leave me any instructions. I wasn't about to let the mafia do her action for her, because I don't like letting them do that unless it's an emergency (i.e. Hurricane Irene, which had long blown itself out). It wouldn't have mattered who it was; people do their own actions, whether they be town or mafia.

And sorry I had to lie about D1. . .in actuality, No Lynch won cleanly with two votes. Kevin negated himself and JB.

Before I go running off to finish up the full night flavors, here's some general thoughts about The Game:

- Talk More, ESPECIALLY during N0/D1. That's the time when everyone is alive, and the more posts there are, the easier it is for the town to scumhunt (and the mafia to find targets). Since most of you are town, you're interested in the scumhunting part.

- I saw a distinct lack of pressure voting (Core would've, but that post restriction. . .)

- I have no idea why Psych claimed when he did. . .but everyone, if you're gonna claim, do so intelligently.

- Townies do have a reason to lie. . .rarely, but sometimes, they do.

- Now that you know who was mafia, go back and reread everything through the thread. Can you tell who's scummy? No? We do a pretty good job of acting like town, but we could use way more work in flushing out the bad guys.

- Research. This will save you much headache.

- Next time, I'm not letting my two hidden players who are out to kill each other know that they're out to kill each other. That's my fault.

- I'll probably be more lenient on priorities, if I decide to use this mechanic again.

- Do NOT be afraid to fail. This applies to many of you. If you mess up here, it's not the end of the world. Your style of play may be bad at the moment, but I think everyone who's ever played in this forum has the potential to improve. You can learn a lot from failures!

- No matter how unfair the game seemed, always ask yourself if you could've done better. Always. (the only person absolved of this FOR NOW is Raymond, because his control ended with his kills)

- Being snippy after the game isn't helping anyone. Don't win the battle to lose the war.

EDIT: Based on all of this, I think I'll stick to NOC for a while. There are some cool things that can carry over from NOC to OC, and I'd like to see if you guys can figure out what they are.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Clipseykitty

[Deliriyum]

Lying as town.

[Paperblade]

I actually thought Proto was acting very scummy ;/