Priscilla or Serra?

[RNG Princess]

I like having Serra physic/warp while Priscilla does frontline healing or viceversa. Sometimes I split my team in two groups with a healer in each. If Priscilla is rescue/dropping Serra's still there.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia

[General Horace]

The only knock on Prissy's combat is she starts with only Fire, whereas Serra has access to Shine, which gives more weapon experience which might allow her to have access to the bad high level light tomes.

Not that it takes long for Prissy to get to Thunder anyhow.

[Florete]

Now that's weird. I recognize that the tomes are better in the Anima school, but isn't light magic generally better in this game? There are a lot more enemy shamans and bishops than mages. I feel like light magic should be one of Serra's few advantages. (Both have no problem doubling nearly any enemy, though the Avoid loss can be dangerous I guess).

I think it must be a case of PEMN, because I've never had a Priscilla that can fight very well.

With the exception of Luna, Shamans and Druids generally aren't powerful enough for Light vs Anima to matter in regards to Serra vs Priscilla. Luna Shamans/Druids are an advantage worth mentioning, but they make up a pretty small percentage of the enemies you face.

[Quintessence]

My Lucius in HNM Auction Draft literally lol'd the mages in the desert map, although they stood alive. The higher threat you can perceive from mages are long-range weapons and Luna, the rest you can dodge them or resist them with high defenses.

[Dunal]

The only knock on Prissy's combat is she starts with only Fire, whereas Serra has access to Shine, which gives more weapon experience which might allow her to have access to the bad high level light tomes.

Not that it takes long for Prissy to get to Thunder anyhow.

And there's the fact that Serra is promoting earlier. She's actually a very good candidate for the first guiding ring, while Prissy isn't. I tend to find that Serra has a ~5 level lead over prissy in general (for the entire game, especially since Bishop's(F)/Valks gain respectable combat EXP, so Serra will always be very much ahead).

When both are promoted, Serra will always have a stat lead. However Prissy has better utility. I'd say both are equal at this point. Prissy is better when neither have promoted, although Serra has the luxury of being avaliable in some of very early chapters (such as 13x).

So Serra is obviously better when Prissy isn't around.

Prissy is better before either of them have promoted. But it depends on the chapter really (Prissy's extra move can matter a lot in chapters such as Whereabouts Unknown, but not so much in Port of Badon).

Serra has a better mid-game. Especially CH22/23.

They are tied late game (depends on whether you value stats or utility more).

Serra is better in the last chapter.

Support-wise It's hard to say. Serra has a better affinity, but Prissy's supports are faster. I'd say they have equally good options.

There is also really minor things such as Horseslayers, and Physic staves and other long range staves negating Prissy's extra movement to a degree. But I doubt they matter too much.

Overall I personally feel Serra just about edges out here. But they are very close either way.

Edited September 16, 2011 by DLuna

[Florete]

And there's the fact that Serra is promoting earlier.

"Fact?" No, and this was covered within the first 15 posts of this topic.

Honestly, why is this the second time it's stated as a "fact" that Serra gets the "first" Guiding Ring?

EDIT: Well, not explicitly stated like that, but both were mentioned.

She's actually a very good candidate for the first guiding ring, while Prissy isn't.

If you're going at any reasonable speed, neither will be, ranked or not. Well, that is if I can assume you're trying to promote one as soon as you get the first Guiding Ring. If neither are promoted by the time you get the second (which should be the case) there is no value to a "first" Guiding Ring.

I tend to find that Serra has a ~5 level lead over prissy in general (for the entire game, especially since Bishop's(F)/Valks gain respectable combat EXP, so Serra will always be very much ahead).

Then you go too slow. Even in my ranked HHM run where I intended to split the experience between them as much as possible, they promoted around the same time and Priscilla ended ~7 levels higher than Serra. In an efficient run, there's no way Serra keeps such a lead, especially when you consider that Priscilla is a higher priority for promotion in the first place due to higher Move and Mag and will therefore be given the heals over Serra where a choice needs to be made.

Support-wise It's hard to say. Serra has a better affinity, but Prissy's supports are faster. I'd say they have equally good options.

Neither will be reasonably getting any supports, except maybe a C for Priscilla.

Serra's really only "better" for the maps Priscilla isn't around and arguably in Living Legend (though really only if she's promoted). Priscilla wins everywhere else. +2 Move, much greater Rescuing options, and +4 Mag base with a reasonable growth aren't something Serra can beat out.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire

[Balcerzak]

Ranked run, so obviously not perfect "efficiency". Lyn Mode only delayed enough to get Nils to 19xx requirements and without Lundgren abuse. Nobody will promote until desert without stalling, guaranteed, so they can get to 20 for XP rank. Serra commands impressive level lead that doesn't slow down until Priscilla promotes and gets combat. Personal experience obviously, but whatever. Have some numbers.

Chapter		12	13	13.5	14	15	16	17	17.5	18	19	19.3	19.6	20	21	22	23	23.5	Lloyd	Linus	25	26	Kenneth	Jerme	28	28.5	29	30	31	31.5	32	32.5	Final

Serra		9.94	10.62	11.30	11.85	11.85	12.64	12.64	12.64	13.65	14.43	14.43	15.35	16.41	17.69	19.15	21.21	21.69		22.85	23.75	24.80	26.14		27.25	29.11	30.01	30.01	30.86	31.55	33.80		
Priscilla				3.33	4.00	4.00	5.17	5.17	6.10	6.89	7.78	7.78	9.03	9.03	10.83	10.83	12.13		13.72	15.54	16.94	18.25		21.17	25.32	27.37	27.37	28.63	29.18	30.51	31.50	33.40

[Florete]

It looks like there were multiple maps where you only deployed one, but isn't it better to always deploy both? That's what I did with just a few exceptions (only Serra in Living Legend and only Priscilla in Genesis). Also wth @ Serra's level coming out of LHM. That can't be normal. I'm sure S ranking LHM, which I didn't do, allows her to get more experience, but that still seems absurdly high when you consider the time and Funds it takes.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire

[GreatEclipse]

On ranked, I would rather Serra exit LHM at a lower level so I can milk Physic and Barrier for all they are worth before promotion. A later promotion also has the advantage of allowing her Exp bonus to take effect on higher leveled enemies. Even for chapter 22, her promoted combat is nothing special (15/1 Erk or Canas are as good or better).

It looks like there were multiple maps where you only deployed one, but isn't it better to always deploy both? That's what I did with just a few exceptions (only Serra in Living Legend and only Priscilla in Genesis).

I frequently only deploy one, since I gain the same amount of exp in the long run, and more combat units on restrictive mid-game chapters is better for turn counts.

Edited September 16, 2011 by GreatEclipse

[Dunal]

"Fact?" No, and this was covered within the first 15 posts of this topic.

Honestly, why is this the second time it's stated as a "fact" that Serra gets the "first" Guiding Ring?

EDIT: Well, not explicitly stated like that, but both were mentioned.

If you're going at any reasonable speed, neither will be, ranked or not. Well, that is if I can assume you're trying to promote one as soon as you get the first Guiding Ring. If neither are promoted by the time you get the second (which should be the case) there is no value to a "first" Guiding Ring.

When you have the first Guiding Ring (Dread Isle) my Serra is usually level 15/16, while Prissy is around level ~10. At that point she's more than ready to promote. As a Bishop, she gains combat EXP at a reasonable rate, so there's no reason not to premote her. And her stats are very close to Lucius at this point (assuming he's level ~10-- that seems about right). Except Serra has the added bonus of healing ofc.

Prissy on the other hand needs to wait until the second ring at least. And yes, the level difference is realistic. Lyn mode brings Serra up to level 6/7. And Serra is 8/9 by the time Prissy comes along. Even in absolute efficiency, level 8 is very realistic. And that level lead remains.

Neither will be reasonably getting any supports, except maybe a C for Priscilla.

Serra having a B with Lucius/Sain isn't out of the question. Priscilla for her options too. Depends how you play. Extreme efficiency perhaps otherwise, but I think I'm being realistic for most players.

Serra's really only "better" for the maps Priscilla isn't around and arguably in Genesis (though really only if she's promoted). Priscilla wins everywhere else. +2 Move, much greater Rescuing options, and +4 Mag base with a reasonable growth aren't something Serra can beat out.

Disagree here. Maps do vary things quite often. But then I already explained this in my original post. I don't disagree that Priscilla has overall better utility though (for the most part), as I've already mentioned. Of course, smaller maps, physic staves, desert/terrain, does effect things here to a degree.

Edited September 16, 2011 by DLuna

[Balcerzak]

HHM XP is lenient as hell compared to EHM, so I'd rather promoted cleric by desert, which high Lyn mode Serra lets me do. Also, that pretty much is my standard LHM S-rank strategy, give or take a few levels. Most of my Serra are between 7.xx-10.xx.

While not the Lyn run I used for the HHM (due to that being on cart, and this being on emulator) I did do a LHM where I did S-rank requirements with the specific purpose of maximizing Serra's level that's on my youtube channel. It is boring though, and I wouldn't recommend watching it.

It looks like there were multiple maps where you only deployed one, but isn't it better to always deploy both? That's what I did with just a few exceptions (only Serra in Living Legend and only Priscilla in Genesis).

I honestly don't remember all of the details of that playthrough, and staring at my spreadsheet log is only so helpful. If you want the .ods file I'll upload it somewhere, so you can see my deployment choices, but it won't remind me why, or what strategies, or who was blessed and who wasn't. I do remember many maps feeling starved for combat units, hence the occasional alteration. Again my goal was to have bishop for desert so in earlier chapters, that meant more Priscilla sitting out. Later chapters were more forgiving. Again, this wasn't efficiency driven ranked but rather "I want the fucking S rank on my cart, so I will make sure to get it", and mounted rescue/drop for quick completion wasn't a priority. I was aiming for enough tactics to hit all maps, and come out okay. It got something like 314/328, which is obviously sub-par.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Balcerzak

[Florete]

On ranked, I would rather Serra exit LHM at a lower level so I can milk Physic and Barrier for all their worth before promotion. A later promotion also has the advantage of allowing her Exp bonus to take effect on higher leveled enemies.

True, almost forgot that.

When you have the first Guiding Ring (Dread Isle) my Serra is usually level 15/16, while Prissy is around level ~10. At that point she's more than ready to promote. As a Bishop, she gains combat EXP at a reasonable rate, so there's no reason not to premote her. And her stats are very close to Lucius at this point (assuming he's level ~10-- that seems about right). Except Serra has the added bonus of healing ofc.

I don't know what style you're arguing here because this doesn't fit in ranked or efficiency. In ranked you would never promote a healer before 20 because of the higher experience gain from staves. In efficiency Serra will never be that high by the Dread Isle.

Prissy on the other hand needs to wait until the second ring at least. And yes, the level difference is realistic. Lyn mode brings Serra up to level 6/7. And Serra is 8/9 by the time Prissy comes along.

Even if your levels are accurate (they're a bit high judging from my own experience, and then there's GE's point), Priscilla then comes in and is higher priority for healing because she's better as a promoted unit than Serra is. Not to mention that she simply heals more and her Move is particularly good for maps like Whereabouts Unknown and Dragon's Gate.

Realistically, neither should hit 20 before Physics and Barriers come into play, and at that point they'll both promote pretty close to each other no matter which one had a level lead.

Serra having a B with Lucius/Sain isn't out of the question. Priscilla for her options too. Depends how you play. Extreme efficiency perhaps otherwise, but I think I'm being realistic for most players.

Serra having a B with anyone is totally out of the question, especially Sain, one of the better combat units who also has +2 Move. Sorry, not gluing him to a 5 Move healer for mediocre bonuses (lol @ ThunderxWind). Of course different playstyles will give different results, but we need something to base our arguments on. Because, you know, PEMN.

HHM XP is lenient as hell compared to EHM, so I'd rather promoted cleric by desert, which high Lyn mode Serra lets me do. Also, that pretty much is my standard LHM S-rank strategy, give or take a few levels. Most of my Serra are between 7.xx-10.xx.

Why is HHM compared to EHM relevant? EHM's higher experience is partially compensated for by a higher Tactics requirement, but either way I see no reason why a promoted Serra is somehow necessary or otherwise extremely important for Living Legend, especially in EHM where enemies are actually weaker than HHM.

Two problems exist with maximizing Serra's level in LHM: GE's post about wanting to maximize her gained experience in HHM for the rank there (Or EHM, of course) where it's harder, and also Funds, which is very tight if you want to use a combination of the stat boosters and Knight Crest and still get a White Gem.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire

[Balcerzak]

Why is HHM compared to EHM relevant? EHM's higher experience is partially compensated for by a higher Tactics requirement, but either way I see no reason why a promoted Serra is somehow necessary or otherwise extremely important for Living Legend, especially in EHM where enemies are actually weaker than HHM.

Two problems exist with maximizing Serra's level in LHM: GE's post about wanting to maximize her gained experience in HHM for the rank there (Or EHM, of course) where it's harder, and also Funds, which is very tight if you want to use a combination of the stat boosters and Knight Crest and still get a White Gem.

It's only relevant because I knew going into this HHM that I could easily do XP, based on previous experience when I did the EHM. Serra's high initial level was a non-issue, especially because it's not like anyone will level-cap completely, and I overshot XP rank by 20 levels.

Living Legend is FOW rout map, a noncombatant slows things down. Serra who is able to defend herself on enemy phase both deters enemies from preferential selection, and when they do, deals damage back. Win-win compared to Serra who cannot. It may not be necessary, or even super beneficial, but it certainly makes for easier planning, and easier recovery in case of flubbing something during the course of chapter execution.

WRT LHM Funds I never use the Energy Ring or the crest because White Gem is delicious. Robe always goes to either Flo or Lyn. It's too tight (even with conservative play) to attempt both Energy Ring and Robe, IMO.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Balcerzak

[Florete]

Okay, not much to say there. Only thing I want to ask is: how is EHM experience harder than HHM? Just looking at numbers you need 1300 more experience (13 full levels) but you also have 18 more turns, which is less than a full level per turn, something very easy, almost elementary, to do in later maps. You also have 2-4 fewer maps, but that shouldn't really affect much.

[Thor Odinson]

//usually just promotes Lucius for Living Legend

//runs away

[GreatEclipse]

It's only relevant because I knew going into this HHM that I could easily do XP, based on previous experience when I did the EHM. Serra's high initial level was a non-issue, especially because it's not like anyone will level-cap completely, and I overshot XP rank by 20 levels

Surplus EXP can be translated into more Marcus use early and more use of units like Harken late, which is far better from a Tactics standpoint than trying to turn Serra into a decent combatant. I finished my last S rank attempt with a 9.88 Marcus and 20.00 Harken, and EXP was cut close enough for her extra levels to matter. I also had a nearly 50 turn surplus going into 32x, even with 24 and 25 drawn out for all the reinforcements. Just different play styles, I suppose.

Edited September 16, 2011 by GreatEclipse

[Balcerzak]

Okay, not much to say there. Only thing I want to ask is: how is EHM experience harder than HHM? Just looking at numbers you need 1300 more experience (13 full levels) but you also have 18 more turns, which is less than a full level per turn, something very easy, almost elementary, to do in later maps. You also have 2-4 fewer maps, but that shouldn't really affect much.

The last unlimited access arena we get is in FFO, and trying to budget how many remaining turns you're going to take for the rest of the game at that point is incredibly dicey. As far as making this up in later maps, that's not always possible due to finite enemies. Obviously there are some reinforcements that can be milked, but at this point you're also dealing with feeding kills to low-level characters, so trying to farm reinforcements in Victory or Death will often result in the latter rather than the former. Maybe this is just my subjective interpretation of difficulty coming into play. Failing that you would have to go back farther to Cog of Destiny, which while not as terribad as the HHM version is still pretty much Do No Want territory. Sure you will likely raise Nino to promotion and beyond on the Knights, but that's only so much.

Edit: Yeah, different styles I guess. My Marcus was 6.28 and never fielded after Dragon's Gate and my Harken was 11.58, having been benched immediately until Victory or Death.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Balcerzak

[dondon151]

I always save the second Guiding Ring for Priscilla because I typically never get the first or third ones and promoted mounted unit is way too good to pass up.

[Dunal]

I don't know what style you're arguing here because this doesn't fit in ranked or efficiency. In ranked you would never promote a healer before 20 because of the higher experience gain from staves. In efficiency Serra will never be that high by the Dread Isle.

Then I think you underestimate this style. Sure, Serra's missing out on 4/5 levels before promotion, but she gains combat and +move for the duration she would otherwise be unpromoted. And by the time she would be 20/1, she would be 15/4, which is barely different. IMO A few more chapters of combat + 1 move > Very minor stat gains. But that's up for debate.

But then you could argue that Erk could use the first Guiding Ring instead (the only other candidate IMO). But again, debatable.

And okay, her being level 15 by Dread Isle is probally slightly off, but Dragon Gate seems about right. I actually have her a bit higher than that (mainly because of Nils utility in Lyn Mode, which I feel is best used on her than a combat unit) but otherwise that doesn't seem unreasonable.

Even if your levels are accurate (they're a bit high judging from my own experience, and then there's GE's point), Priscilla then comes in and is higher priority for healing because she's better as a promoted unit than Serra is. Not to mention that she simply heals more and her Move is particularly good for maps like Whereabouts Unknown and Dragon's Gate.

This should be a non-argument. We should compare characters individually rather than together or related. For example, you can't argue that Erk is better than Canas "because you'd rather deploy Erk" , but you should instead compare their merits (rather saying Erk just deserves more EXP, and therefore gaining EXP at a faster rate as an argument).

Besides, I'm comparing Serra/Prissy as if they are individually being used, because that relates to the topic. And even if they are both used, they should recieve equal treatment, otherwise it's favoritism.

And yes, I countlessly said that her extra movement/utility to a boon to her, It's obvious that Prissy is the better unit early-game (while Serra is better mid-game). That's all in my original post.

Edited September 16, 2011 by DLuna

[Radiant Dragon]

Then I think you underestimate this style. Sure, Serra's missing out on 4/5 levels before promotion, but she gains combat and +move for the duration she would otherwise be unpromoted. And by the time she would be 20/1, she would be 15/4, which is barely different. IMO A few more chapters of combat + 1 move > Very minor stat gains. But that's up for debate.

Her argument isn't about stat gains. If we're considering an efficiency run, Serra usually won't be that high leveled by Dragon's Gate. If we're talking about ranked play, Serra wants the extra levels not for better stats, but for the EXP rank.

[Dunal]

Her argument isn't about stat gains. If we're considering an efficiency run, Serra usually won't be that high leveled by Dragon's Gate. If we're talking about ranked play, Serra wants the extra levels not for better stats, but for the EXP rank.

I suppose. But then 20/1 and 15/4 is only a two level difference. It certainly matters, although there are merits to the latter.

But again, 15 by dragon gate not is unreasonable. If Serra's level 8/9 by chapter 14, then certainly. I assume that both are being used (with a ranked mindset) and EXP is shared, so that does change things I suppose.

Edited September 16, 2011 by DLuna

[Radiant Dragon]

I suppose. But then 20/1 and 15/4 is only a two level difference. It certainly matters, although there are merits to the latter.

Except they're both going to continue leveling. A 20/1 unit has gained more EXP than a 15/4 unit and can also gain more EXP by the end of the game.

But again, 15 by dragon gate not is unreasonable. If Serra's level 8/9 by chapter 14, then certainly. I assume that both are being used (with a ranked mindset) and EXP is shared, so that does change things I suppose.

15 is not unreasonable in ranked play, but you're not promoting her at 15 in ranked play so it's irrelevant.

[Darthvader]

Both of them suck and have crap durability, Pent and Athosare better because they can actually fight back and not get instantly KO.

[CrashGordon94]

Both of them suck and have crap durability, Pent and Athosare better because they can actually fight back and not get instantly KO.

But you need healing before they come in, that's why Serra's useful.

[Anouleth]

Both of them suck and have crap durability, Pent and Athosare better because they can actually fight back and not get instantly KO.

Oh, if only you got Athos instead of Serra in Chapter 12.