Paper Jam Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) A question for someone more knowledgeable about Japanese than I: The same kanji is used in "Fuuin no Tsurugi" and "Rekka no Ken," so why is it pronounced "tsurugi" in the former case and "ken" in the latter? What's wrong with the phrase "Fuuin no Ken"? Edited September 2, 2011 by Paper Jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 One is blade and one is sword? I think of Blades as more massive -- like Durandal -- whereas Swords are not as long -- like the Sword of Seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I was thinking sword vs. blade as well, but if they use the same kanji then how would you know which one it means? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) They mean the same thing. "Ken" is the on-yomi while "tsurugi" is the kun-yomi for 剣. I suppose looking at the etymology of the pronunciation might give a clue as to any subtle difference between the two, though. Kun-yomi is strictly Japanese in origin and would therefore encompass a smaller set of swords. Edited September 2, 2011 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Well, I am familiar with kanji taking on different sounds (oftentimes one with purely Japanese origins and one with other origins) but every time I have seen it, it has been because it is with other kanji as opposed to standing alone or is paired with a certain character. Here, it is just 剣 alone in both cases. Maybe Rekka no Ken and Fuuin no Tsurugi are terms in Japanese folk lore/mythology/etc. so Japanese people are already familiar with the names? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Hmm. Durandal is a reference to the Song of Roland (i.e. French), and I'm pretty sure that the Sword of Seals didn't have any name other than... well, the Sword of Seals, nor is it as explicit a reference to European myth and legend as Durandal is. I guess that would make Durandal (Rekka no Ken) more non-Japanese than the Sword of Seals (Fuuin no Tsurugi). On a slightly different note, I noticed that FE1 is called "Ankokuryuu to Hikari no Tsurugi" (at least according to the furigana in the FE6 manual) whereas FE11 is called "Shin Ankokuryuu to Hikari no Ken" in one of the Japanese commercials that I saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazuki Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) If I could make a guess, I think that "Ken" and "Tsurugi" are simply interchangeable with each other due to synonymy. This would make sense because I think Intelligent Systems or whatever official sources have at times used both "Ken" and "Tsurugi" when referring to FE1 and were never consistent. Why, I don't know. This contrasts with "Fuuin no Tsurugi" and "Rekka no Ken" in that Intelligent Systems has never used the other word for them, but a very, very small percentage of people who don't know any better use them anyway. "Fuuin no Ken" and "Rekka no Tsurugi" are technically correct, but since they were never officially used in the first place and they're extremely unpopular, they're just not used. This is just my idea, though. I really like your question! I had always wondered about this, but have never really put any real thought into it until now. Edited September 2, 2011 by Hazukitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Well, I am familiar with kanji taking on different sounds (oftentimes one with purely Japanese origins and one with other origins) but every time I have seen it, it has been because it is with other kanji as opposed to standing alone or is paired with a certain character. Here, it is just 剣 alone in both cases. Standalone kanji can take either the kun-yomi or the on-yomi, but it's more often the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Well then how do you know when to use which one? Do you just use the one you feel like using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) It depends on what THEY say. Seems like they have a lot of freedom when it comes to naming crap. They can put together a bunch of random kanji that has the meaning of the thing they're naming and even go as much as putting Katakana on top of it to pronounce it. An example would be "Blastia" in Tales of Vesperia which have 魔導器 as its Kanji, but is still pronounced "blastia" because there's Kana on top of it. Probably because they don't use it everyday, there are no strict rules for which pronunciation should be which. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't use the words "Flaming Sword" everyday when not talking about something that isn't video game related. Edited September 3, 2011 by shadowofkitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 There might be slight nuances in their connotations... but if there isn't, I'd probably say it's a thing of looks. How the phrase sounds along with the rest of the title might be the influence. It's gonna be a real subjective thing... kinda like Spear/Lance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 An example would be "Blastia" in Tales of Vesperia which have 魔導器 as its Kanji, but is still pronounced "blastia" because there's Kana on top of it. The difference between "Blastia" and 剣 is that "ken" and "tsurugi" are common readings for the kanji where as "Blastia" is a pronunciation designed specifically for that context. Kanji themselves have meaning regardless of how they're pronounced and it's much easier to associate that kanji compound with what "Blastia" represents than a katakana pronunciation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 There might be slight nuances in their connotations... but if there isn't, I'd probably say it's a thing of looks. How the phrase sounds along with the rest of the title might be the influence. It's gonna be a real subjective thing... kinda like Spear/Lance. Just don't mix up a Spear and a Lance while playing Berwick Saga if you value your characters' lives. "Oh, hey, a Lance Knight. They're the ones with the +1H weapons, right? I'll just send Elbert to deal with him. With his above-average durability, I'm sure he won't get OHKOed or anything..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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