Tangerine Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) Going to break the loop here because it is still happening. Repeating the cycle of "It is not okay that this happens", "Yes but this is what happens in reality", "Exactly, this is what happens and that is a problem", "This is what happens in reality and if you say it doesn't happen you're an idiot" is not going to get anyone anywhere, and I am getting very tired of it. The problem is you are now trying to argue a point that does not matter currently. I'm sure it would be ideal for most women if they could wear whatever they want without sending a guy the wrong message. But that isn't reality. Nobody said "if you say it doesn't happen you're an idiot", I said "if you take a calculated risk and then act like you have no part in it should the outcome be negative, you are stupid". Sure, for a lot of women it is a problem - one that can be largely prevented by being smart. You can act like what I am saying is a chore to respond to all you want, but the fact of the matter is that I am absolutely correct. You challenged my statements and I provided reason for why they were accurate. I agree with you that it is a bad thing that they are accurate, but there it is. You're saying that it's wrong that guys are allowed to do this, but it ISN'T black and white. Often consent is given without words in a club environment (gogo super loud music and lots of buzz), and that type of communication is prone to mistake. Not only that, but Severian is absolutely correct in saying that you should not even go to places where it is entirely acceptable if you're going to freak out when it happens. If you want to play the blame game, don't blame just the guys - blame the women who make it hard for others to go to certain places without having to worry about what messages they're sending, and the establishments that allow it to occur. In the end it is unlikely for this to ever change significantly, but it will NEVER be the fault of only one person. I was going to wonder why we were letting someone get away with the tired old "X is only against harassment because they can't get any" garbage, then I realized it was Death and nobody gives a damn. Death's original post was perfectly valid. The ones afterwards are irrelevant to the discussion. Edited November 19, 2011 by Tangerine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) However, keep in mind a lot of sexual harassment happens when the woman is completely modestly dressed as well, as shown in the case of Kai's friend. The root of the problem still comes down to the perpetrator unable to have a sense of self control or decency. @ Sev: I'm just saying what I would do to any man who dares touch me anywhere without my permission (exception: walking and accidentally bumping into each other because one or both of us wasn't watching where we're going). Granted, I despise physical contact and am prone to bursts of anger. Now, I may think that way, but I won't act on the castration part unless the dude whips out his dick. That's just begging for it. I just won't care at all if a kick in the nads is the only way I can get the fuck away from that fucker and I just kicked hard enough that his balls stopped functioning. If he's gonna grope, he's gonna have to face the consequences if his target happens to be trained at fighting and rather violent at the same time, and a punch in the stomach (or a pepperspray in the face, now that I know I can get some) is not enough of a warning to back off. Edited November 19, 2011 by Luminescent Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 However, keep in mind a lot of sexual harassment happens when the woman is completely modestly dressed as well, as shown in the case of Kai's friend. The root of the problem still comes down to the perpetrator unable to have a sense of self control or decency. and was that ever questioned? as I said, rapists exist, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 And I'd be happy to chop off all of their dicks with a chainsaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) This has nothing to do with promiscuity. Perhaps I was unclear: this is about CONSENT.Are you going to try and argue with me that the basic right to not be subjected to sexual contact without consent is not necessary? The club issue has everything to do with promiscuity, and if you're ignoring that you have not a leg to stand on. Look. I've never been in a club atmosphere. But let me suggest something. The chemistry that is trying to be achieved in such an environment would, most likely, be highly cramped if people had to ask first for everything. There would be noless spontaneity - romance and passion would be required to be carried out through linguistics first, then other avenues only after that linguistic opening. As absurd as it is to a person as, for lack of a better term, stilted, as I am, I must acknowledge that the "natural" thing was probably not, in the time of our ancestors to find love through language first. Hardly. Language came later. And for some people, especially teenagers and young adults still ripe with hormones, I would not be surprised to find that they would rather have the freedom to express physical, and maybe sometimes emotional, want for another without asking first. And I think not accepting that urge as just as valid as the urge to not be touched without consent is rather one-sided of you, in fact it suggests you have little consideration for the wants of others in this ideal world you seek to build. I don't have the quote with me, but a wise writer wrote in the wake of World War II that (paraphrase) "the reformer should first examine what it is he or she is attempting to reform." I would suggest that you are being overly perfectionist about this desire to have interpersonal sexuality begin with language. I would not go so far as to say there should be places where promiscuity before language of consent should be allowed. I will go so far as to say that there WILL be such places, with consent on both sides for much of the foreseeable future whatever you do to change it, and it will occur for reasons just as valid as your wish to not be touched without permission. Capice? @ Sev: I'm just saying what I would do to any man who dares touch me anywhere without my permission (exception: walking and accidentally bumping into each other because one or both of us wasn't watching where we're going). Granted, I despise physical contact and am prone to bursts of anger. Now, I may think that way, but I won't act on the castration part unless the dude whips out his dick. That's just begging for it. I just won't care at all if a kick in the nads is the only way I can get the fuck away from that fucker and I just kicked hard enough that his balls stopped functioning. If he's gonna grope, he's gonna have to face the consequences if his target happens to be trained at fighting and rather violent at the same time, and a punch in the stomach (or a pepperspray in the face, now that I know I can get some) is not enough of a warning to back off. I have no problem with you defending yourself to the point of stopping the assault or getting away, and I don't believe that injuries incurred by the assailant in such a situation should be sought after as damages in the aftermath. But a sort of mandated eunichization of the population of sex offenders would be overkill in my mind. Especially because eunuchs have a habit of corrupting the empire. And I'd be happy to chop off all of their dicks with a chainsaw. And that is why you are evil. (But I love you anyway) Edited November 19, 2011 by BlueMartianKitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uguu Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 This man is my favourite rapist, though he apparently never raped a woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 would you also stick a broom into a pregnant rapist to kill their baby? you'll probably say yes just to make a point but I don't really think so. also those are a lot of chopped dicks. I guess it's kind of "morally" better to chop off a raping raging dick than bursting a groper's scrotum, but I think my point still stands. people could change. I think you're just a little bit intheheatofthemomentandforthesakeofmypointish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 However, keep in mind a lot of sexual harassment happens when the woman is completely modestly dressed as well, as shown in the case of Kai's friend. The root of the problem still comes down to the perpetrator unable to have a sense of self control or decency. Pretty sure you're talking to me with this and not Stolypin even though he responded, but correct me if I'm wrong . There are definitely bad dudes out there, that's not something I am questioning in the slightest. The discussion I am currently involved in resulted from a reply I made to Raven about its acceptability in a club or nightclub environment. I don't think it is acceptable to any degree for someone to just walk up on the street and start grabbing another person inappropriately, even if they are dressed promiscuously. However, if it is just someone making rude comments then there isn't much I can say. Don't dress that way if you don't want to be ogled. (or a pepperspray in the face, now that I know I can get some) is not enough of a warning to back off. Spray yourself with pepperspray and see if it isn't effective enough to get someone to back off . warning: please don't actually spray yourself with pepperspray, you will be on the floor crying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttmuncher.ops Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Women go to clubs and dress sexy for other women, not to attract the sex of their choosing. This is evident by the cat-like looks the most beautiful woman gets from all the other women who spent so much time on themselves only to be shown up. Also you mechanically saw with a chainsaw, not chop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 and possibly blind for a while. if you hit it just right...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uguu Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Spray yourself with pepperspray and see if it isn't effective enough to get someone to back off . warning: please don't actually spray yourself with pepperspray, you will be on the floor crying. If she's gonna be using it she should probably use it on herself so she fully knows what exactly she's doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Women go to clubs and dress sexy for other women, not to attract the sex of their choosing. This is evident by the cat-like looks the most beautiful woman gets from all the other women who spent so much time on themselves only to be shown up. Also you mechanically saw with a chainsaw, not chop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) Pretty sure you're talking to me with this and not Stolypin even though he responded, but correct me if I'm wrong . There are definitely bad dudes out there, that's not something I am questioning in the slightest. The discussion I am currently involved in resulted from a reply I made to Raven about its acceptability in a club or nightclub environment. I don't think it is acceptable to any degree for someone to just walk up on the street and start grabbing another person inappropriately, even if they are dressed promiscuously. However, if it is just someone making rude comments then there isn't much I can say. Don't dress that way if you don't want to be ogled. Spray yourself with pepperspray and see if it isn't effective enough to get someone to back off . warning: please don't actually spray yourself with pepperspray, you will be on the floor crying. Fair enough. I think people should keep certain comments to themselves, but that's just me. I am also tired of looking at women's underwear when I go up a set of stairs and look straight ahead. It's a little disturbing. I wish they didn't dress that way in schools :/ ....well, underwear in general. Guys please pull your pants up. :///// But that's a whole separate point entirely. I'm not that stupid~ :P Well, whatdayya know, there's some really persistent guys out there. ...then again there are people who take a shot to the nads like it's sex. @_____@ Maybe I should start carrying my nunchakus in my laptop case. Also you mechanically saw with a chainsaw, not chop. No, I just swing the motherfucker down like a sword. Edited November 19, 2011 by Luminescent Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) I'm not that stupid~ :P Well, whatdayya know, there's some really persistent guys out there. ...then again there are people who take a shot to the nads like it's sex. @_____@ Maybe I should start carrying my nunchakus in my laptop case. um, as stubborn as some people might be I don't think they can persist on doing something when they are on the floor screaming in pain and blinded by more than just one thing and no no guy would ever take a shot to the nad like it's sex unless it's an extreme masochist or extremely out of their mind like the people from the hurt olympics Edited November 19, 2011 by Stolypin Necktie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I'm paranoid as fuck and rather err on the side of caution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttmuncher.ops Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) Great success. I love when I get a facepalm out of you. But more so I love that you quoted me so my post isn't lost in the abyss of the bottom half of page 4. Usually this means I'm trolling but I'm dead serious; beautiful women take every aspect of being beautiful competitively just like how men take every aspect of sports competitively, just as a general comparison. No, I just swing the motherfucker down like a sword. What's the point of a chainsaw if you don't rev it up. That's the sexiest part of using a chainsaw. Edited November 19, 2011 by blllllack.mmmmmamba.ops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I'm paranoid as fuck and rather err on the side of caution. Welcome to the real world. Actually, I'm not living in it for now so I'm not the proper welcoming party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Dammit, no cupcakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I'm paranoid as fuck and rather err on the side of caution. it's fucking pepper spray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Dammit, no cupcakes. *Relents* Here's a cookie. It's the best this measly soul can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Great success. I love when I get a facepalm out of you. But more so I love that you quoted me so my post isn't lost in the abyss of the bottom half of page 4. Usually this means I'm trolling but I'm dead serious; beautiful women take every aspect of being beautiful competitively just like how men take every aspect of sports competitively, just as a general comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 just like how men take every aspect of sports competitively, If men took every aspect of sports competitively, there would be no team sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttmuncher.ops Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 If men took every aspect of sports competitively, there would be no team sports. This is the type of attitude that lets me get first string varsity wide receiver while you're stuck managing towels =) P.S. Don't forget to invest in ankle insurance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPnRFkPWyDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 @ Spike: I would still be cautious if I shot a dude. Hell, ran a dude through with a sword. Before you question my logic, I have terribad aim that might cause me to shoot the innocent guy next to the criminal so I'd rather keep it short range. *Relents* Here's a cookie. It's the best this measly soul can do. Yay~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uguu Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) well if you shoot a dude or run him through with a sword, while it's more permanent damage, they won't necessarily be on the ground screaming and also blind unless you stabbed their eyes or something but whatever edit: actually the damage isn't even necessarily less permanent Edited November 19, 2011 by Hikarussr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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