Could Aenir and Idoun have been the same person?

[Paper Jam]

I've been looking over what Yahn said about Idoun, specifically how he and the other dragons guarding the temple had captured one of the Divine Dragons and turned her into the Dark Dragon.

Granted, we don't know much about Aenir other than the fact that "some bad men" had captured her... but it got me to thinking; Yahn was certainly a bad man, and Nergal would have seen him as such.

For Aenir to have become Idoun, of course, she must have been a Divine Dragon... but who says that she wasn't?

[Acacia Sgt]

For Aenir to have become Idoun, of course, she must have been a Divine Dragon... but who says that she wasn't?

Ninian and Nils. They're half Ice Dragons, therefore Aenir is an Ice Dragon as well. So no.

[Just call me AL]

The problem with this theory though is that Ninian and Nils are Ice Dragon halflings. And as such, they can't transform into other dragon types like a Divine Dragon can, nor take on the abilities and physical traits of other people like Xane can. This whole thing just reeks of Wild Mass Guessing if you ask me.

[Paper Jam]

Maybe. Ena was red, and her grandfather was white (and her child is some combination of red, white, and black), so I thought that the fact that Nils and Ninian were ice dragons wouldn't dictate much about their mother.

The problem with this theory though is that Ninian and Nils are Ice Dragon halflings. And as such, they can't transform into other dragon types like a Divine Dragon can, nor take on the abilities and physical traits like Xane can.

I'm not talking about Nils and Ninian, though; I'm talking about Aenir and Idoun. And if a Divine Dragon could turn into other Dragon types, she could possibly give birth to offspring of other Dragon types.

[Acacia Sgt]

Maybe. Ena was red, and her grandfather was white (and her child is some combination of red, white, and black), so I thought that the fact that Nils and Ninian were ice dragons wouldn't dictate much about their mother.

I'm not talking about Nils and Ninian, though; I'm talking about Aenir and Idoun. And if a Divine Dragon could turn into other Dragon types, she could possibly give birth to offspring of other Dragon types.

Then again, Tellius dragons work differently than Elibe dragons, especially considering they are Laguz, not actual Manaketes.

Except going from Divine to Dark meat having her heart/soul corrupted and stuff. That's hardly a normal change. So highly likely it's not possible for other change combinations. In fact, only Divines can be corrupted into Darks.

[Darros]

In fact, only Divines can be corrupted into Darks.

Medeus was an Earth dragon who got dcorrupted to Dark, if you're talking serieswide.

But by Elibe, does this mean that all Dark Dragons were once Divine?

[Just call me AL]

Except going from Divine to Dark meat having her heart/soul corrupted and stuff. That's hardly a normal change. So highly likely it's not possible for other change combinations. In fact, only Divines can be corrupted into Darks.

But it's a different type of Dark than what you see Medeus transform into, as well as how you see Loptous as though.

[Acacia Sgt]

Medeus was an Earth dragon who got dcorrupted to Dark, if you're talking serieswide.

But by Elibe, does this mean that all Dark Dragons were once Divine?

But it's a different type of Dark that you see Medeus transform into, as well as how you see Loptous as though.

Well, of course. Akaneia/Jugdral canon is different from Elibe canon, as so far there is no evidence they take place in the same world.

Well, from what is stated, it is mentioned you can corrupt Divine Dragons into Drak Dragons. Whether the latter can exist naturally or not is another subject I don't think there is evidence of.

[Just call me AL]

I also forgot to mention Yahn in the FE7 epilogue refers to Idun as a Demon Dragon.

[shadowofchaos]

Well, there's no evidence to the contrary...

But then again... it sounds a little... out there.

[Ϲharlie]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/VincentASM/Site/FE7/60.png

That's supposed to be Nergal and his wife. Note how her appearance if very similar to Ninian's dragon form. It seems more likely that she was an ice dragon. :\

[shadowofchaos]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/VincentASM/Site/FE7/60.png

That's supposed to be Nergal and his wife. Note how her appearance if very similar to Ninian's dragon form. It seems more likely that she was an ice dragon. :\

And if a Divine Dragon could turn into other Dragon types, she could possibly give birth to offspring of other Dragon types.

That's the basis of his theory.

But like I said, it feels... a little out there. What particular reason would she have for turning into an Ice Dragon if she was a Divine Dragon? Not only that, could she turn into the Dark Dragon straight from an Ice Dragon form?

Also.

I don't see it.

[Ϲharlie]

That's the basis of his theory.

I'm well aware of that, but it doesn't change anything. If Nergal's wife was supposed to be a divine dragon, it would make more sense for IS to give her a design similar to Fa's, not one that looks exactly like Ninian's ice dragon form.

[Aethereal]

No offense meant, but this kinda seems like grasping at straws. I mean, I guess there's no way I can prove the idea wrong, but I feel it would be more strongly implied if that was the idea.

[Acacia Sgt]

Thing is, it is never shown or implied that they can change what kind of dragon they are. The case of Divine to Dark is a special case, and strictly to Elibe canon. While the whole using the stones of other dragons is strictly Akaneian canon. And neither case show that they can change their type, with again Medeus's Earth to Dark is another special case, as he was brought back to life after all.

[shadowofchaos]

No offense meant, but this kinda seems like grasping at straws.

THAT's the expression I wanted to say. I just... sorta forgot it.

[Nintenlord]

Where is it said that Elibe divine dragons can transform into other dragon types? Never heard of that before.

[Othin]

Ninian and Nils got their dragon-ness entirely from their mother. There's no reason why they would inherit Ice Dragon-ness more than Divine Dragon-ness if their mother was a Divine Dragon.

[Anouleth]

Ninian and Nils got their dragon-ness entirely from their mother. There's no reason why they would inherit Ice Dragon-ness more than Divine Dragon-ness if their mother was a Divine Dragon.

Recessive genes exist, you know.

[Othin]

Recessive genes exist, you know.

You're suggesting video game biology work realistically? Blasphemy.

But yeah, that's a possibility, although the theory of course remains absurd.

[Acacia Sgt]

Not to mention that as Dragons, their genetics may have a different working than that of Human's.

[zahlman]

Honestly, everything to do with Elibe (at least!) dragons is WMG IMO.

I mean, there are manaketes, and then there are also wyverns, and it's never really explained why wyverns (which appear to be related to dragons, and are called dragons in the Japanese version) exist and are tame and presumably breedable without causing any Scouring-type problems. Speaking of manaketes, they seem to have spontaneously come into existence in the 20 years between FE6 and FE7, unless Ninian and Nils count. Arcadia exists, but somehow Nergal had to go to the Dragons' Gate to accomplish anything. The gate somehow wasn't destroyed in the thousand years since the Scouring. Ninian and Nils kinda just wandered through by themselves, but Nergal needs them to call any more through. Except as he dies, when he apparently suddenly figures out the secret. (Not to mention, Nergal seems oddly pleased about Eliwood killing Ninian when he presumably still thinks he needs Ninian alive for his plans...) And maybe I wasn't reading Yahn's story closely enough, but I still don't get how Zephiel got access.

I also forgot to mention Yahn in the FE7 epilogue refers to Idun as a Demon Dragon.

Are you sure he isn't referring to himself? That's how I always read it. But then, my experience with 7 dates back quite a bit further than 6, so...

[Aethereal]

Honestly, everything to do with Elibe (at least!) dragons is WMG IMO.

I mean, there are manaketes, and then there are also wyverns, and it's never really explained why wyverns (which appear to be related to dragons, and are called dragons in the Japanese version) exist and are tame and presumably breedable without causing any Scouring-type problems. Speaking of manaketes, they seem to have spontaneously come into existence in the 20 years between FE6 and FE7, unless Ninian and Nils count. Arcadia exists, but somehow Nergal had to go to the Dragons' Gate to accomplish anything. The gate somehow wasn't destroyed in the thousand years since the Scouring. Ninian and Nils kinda just wandered through by themselves, but Nergal needs them to call any more through. Except as he dies, when he apparently suddenly figures out the secret. (Not to mention, Nergal seems oddly pleased about Eliwood killing Ninian when he presumably still thinks he needs Ninian alive for his plans...) And maybe I wasn't reading Yahn's story closely enough, but I still don't get how Zephiel got access.

Yahn's the only mamkute from FE6 that wasn't created by Idoun, unless I'm misremembering, or am misinformed. The rest are the "war dragons" or whatever Yahn calls them. Also, Ninian and Nils are mamkutes, as they have dragonstones that are referenced.

You never learn how Zephiel breaks Idoun's seal, but Yahn says Zephiel learns of Idoun in an old book in Bern Keep. I'd imagine that whatever it was would be meant for descendants of Hartmut. Or something. I dunno.

Are you sure he isn't referring to himself? That's how I always read it. But then, my experience with 7 dates back quite a bit further than 6, so...

Yahn says "Why did you awaken the demon dragon" or something to that affect(Effect? I fucking hate these two words.) and Zephiel responds by asking who Yahn is. If Yahn was the demon dragon, I doubt Zephiel would have asked who Yahn is.

This is all from memory mind you, but I've played both fairly recently, so I doubt it's too far off. Could be wrong though.

[Baldrick]

Honestly, everything to do with Elibe (at least!) dragons is WMG IMO.

I mean, there are manaketes, and then there are also wyverns, and it's never really explained why wyverns (which appear to be related to dragons, and are called dragons in the Japanese version) exist and are tame and presumably breedable without causing any Scouring-type problems.

At one point, Roy asks for confirmation that someone (Elphin, maybe) is talking about Dragons that were defeated in the Scouring, rather than Bern's mounts. Apart from that, there's no link between the two unlike in Akaneia and Tellius.

Arcadia exists, but somehow Nergal had to go to the Dragons' Gate to accomplish anything.

My theory is that either the only dragon that Nergal could use at Arcadia was Fa, and she was too young to have enough quintessence, or Nergal didn't want to tangle with Athos.

Ninian and Nils kinda just wandered through by themselves, but Nergal needs them to call any more through. Except as he dies, when he apparently suddenly figures out the secret.

The problem was he needed a lot of power. When he died, he used his own quintessence as a source. Why Ninian came through in the first place, I'm not sure.

(Not to mention, Nergal seems oddly pleased about Eliwood killing Ninian when he presumably still thinks he needs Ninian alive for his plans...)

He thought Nils would suffice.

Are you sure he isn't referring to himself? That's how I always read it. But then, my experience with 7 dates back quite a bit further than 6, so...

He says in 6 that he's a normal Dragon who fought in the Scouring. The Demon Dragon is the official name for the Dark Dragon/Idoun.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Nils, when telling Eliwood the whole story says the 'voice of an old friend' called them through the gate. Presumably it was the subconscious recognition of Nergal as their father is what lured Nils and Ninian.