dondon151 Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Individually, I'd agree no Royal has a place on the list, but since combined entries are apparently allowed, a case could be made. Also he said he wanted to get Ulki and Janaff in and just couldn't justify it, so unless availability means a whole hell of a lot to him, the two non-Royal Hawks almost cracking the list does suggest a Royal (or at least "the Royals") could make it. Combined entries aren't 2 characters judged with the criteria for 1. They're 2 (or more) characters so close that it would be a ranking nightmare (also terribly inefficient) to put them in separate slots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 They're mostly combined so I can have a nice diverse bunch of things to write about. Othin and Fergus aren't very similar, but I combined them because Othin vs Fergus was kind of a #feto meme by itself for a while and it gave me an extra spot to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Sorry but this is terrible logic. Since when does Rutger being a better bosskiller mean they aren't dominating that part of the game anymore? There's a long, long, long path to the throne in pretty much every map, and you are acting like it shouldn't even be taken into account. When we're warping Rutger followed by Roy to the throne, Alan and Lance are pretty irrelevant. This is the easiest and quickest way to finish many of the midgame chapters. Even when we're not using Warp, there are several maps where they're not terribly useful, 8x comes to mind. Rutger's ability to kill the boss in a semi-timely manner is useful, Alan and Lance being able to kill scrubs doesn't actually help clear the map. Your statement can be reversed so easily. "Marcus starts getting outclassed by them by midgame, Rutger's unmounted and can't match their utility until he gets to the boss, and Percival and Miledy aren't even around for half of the game." Also, Alance with supports will generally be more uber than Percival, especially in NM. I'm not saying Alan and Lance aren't the best units in FE6, but I think it's highly debatable due to the things I mentioned. I wouldn't put them above say My Unit, who is pretty clearly the best unit in FE12 (unless you made MU an archer or something, but you didn't mention anything like that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 When we're warping Rutger followed by Roy to the throne, Alan and Lance are pretty irrelevant. This is the easiest and quickest way to finish many of the midgame chapters. Even when we're not using Warp, there are several maps where they're not terribly useful, 8x comes to mind. Rutger's ability to kill the boss in a semi-timely manner is useful, Alan and Lance being able to kill scrubs doesn't actually help clear the map. The thing is that you only seem to be talking about playthroughs where we are going as fast as possible with all units available. Consider things such as drafts, where it's likely you don't have Rutger/Thany/Warper to have these kind of skips available, and suddenly Alance's ability to plow through the 8x scrubs becomes much more valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renall Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I actually agree with Mekkah, but under the assumption that he was ranking them as Alan and Lance, not Alan and/or Lance. It seems to me that a huge part of what makes them so great in FE6 is their tag-team nature and mutual support (+ Roy support triangle if desired). They're probably the most synergistic Christmas Cavaliers in the series and I think that justifies their ranking. But individually I don't think they're even remotely close to Top 20 material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) The Alance spot isn't ranked as Lance and Alan's combined utility. However, it does take into account the fact that getting the support bonus from the other makes you stronger, as well as the fact that giving the support bonus to the other makes the other a better unit. They're just in the same spot for similarity reasons. 15. Jill, from FE9 What is the most threatening enemy, on any given map? Is it the boss? Chances are, the boss is sitting on a throne and is gently waiting for you to come into his range, making him overall not all that dangerous. Usually, the threatening enemies are the enemy fliers, particularly the wyverns. Every game seems to have a country famous for having a wyvern fleet. Strong and with a wide range, they threaten to KO your dancer/healer/random weak unit if you accidentally put them in one of the many many squares they have access to. Usually, one of them isn't all bad and joins your team for whatever reason. This game, that wyvern is Jill. She is actually a NPC on the map she joins, but she is definitely with the enemy at first, storyline-wise, and only joins out of racism. If I had a quarter for every time Jill can change sides, I would never need a Silver Card again...anyway, her start isn't too hot. 24 HP and 9 Spd? Good thing this is probably the best game to have a bad start in. With a nice infusion of BEXP and maybe a forged lance, Jill has no problem sweeping every enemy aside in FE9, like pretty much your entire army. But unlike most of them, she does it with wings, and that's always gonna be better. You can expect a lot of wings and horses from here on out. Most FE games really didn't bother balancing mounts with foot units, and as a result the units that can get to the enemies first will always win out by a lot. Jill is a practically invincible flier, which gives her the ability to go about anywhere she pleases to shake things up. It's really hard to match that kind of utility, it pretty much gives you a joker that takes care of the hardest or most urgent map objective for you. also red hair Edited December 21, 2011 by Mekkah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeaderR Elliot Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 How is FE 12 MU and Palla who come almost at the beginning of the game and are the best of the game being inferior to Jill?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Answer: because Mekkah had to do some shuffling after he started posting the list. You can't really blame him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esaka Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 K... well, as long as the higher ups are really spot on, I won't care much for the order of these. But Jill is... meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Jill is the best non-Titania unit in FE9. Stats-wise she's on par with Ike, and her utility is better than Titania's because of flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I though Marcia was above Jill in tiers now? She comes earlier, is a lot faster, has strength that's pretty even with Jill's, better resistance and luck, and her heath and def aren't so much lower that it should make a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esaka Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Agreed, doubling issues in FE9? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) Agreed, doubling issues in FE9? LOL Marcia can double Muarim a lot earlier than Jill can. Granted it's one enemy, but it's something for her. Edited December 22, 2011 by bottlegnomes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Marcia is also a lot better at not falling asleep in some random chapters and she's better in the chapters where Jill doesn't exist. Marcia's also a million times easier to shove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 Well, guess who is #14? 14. Marcia, from FE9 Can I say "see Jill"? No, I guess not. Both Jill and Marcia were somewhat late additions to my list. I actually asked around about them to see which one should deserve to be higher. Jill has better stats once they're both ready to rumble, but Marcia has more availability and is faster (there must be something out there she can double that Jill can't). I haven't played FE9, so none of this is from personal experience...I'm sure both of these can be switched around quite a bit. Marcia will probably need a BEXP dump and a forge to start off, but once raised, she will obviously speed up traveling progress quite a bit. She's exceptionally fast (55% speed growth with 11 base at L5), so any boost to Atk she can get pretty much pays off double. Kind of a shame Saviour comes so late in the game, cause Marcia really can't afford to battle with Ike or someone else on her horse. Cause if you are playing turbo efficiency, that might just be all you care about. Marcia really has everything the "chicks with wings" group has going for them, except her combat is so easy to make good that it's laughable. Good combat, high move, availability, and flying are really the core things that make a unit good (not in any particular order), and Marcia pretty much has all of them. One of the only reasons she isn't all the way up there is that she does need help to get good (minimal cost, but again, competition is fierce), and then there's the fact that it's harder to stand out in FE9 (where everyone is a juggernaut) than in a more difficult game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esaka Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) Marcia can double Muarim a lot earlier than Jill can. Granted it's one enemy, but it's something for her. I was praising Marcia, not insulting her Also, to know which characters are really good, you gotta play. Personal Experience does have some importance after all. Edited December 22, 2011 by 3-13Archer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deranger Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Also, to know which characters are really good, you gotta play. Personal Experience does have some importance after all. Personal experience, unless a large number of playthroughs are involved, can easily be skewed by chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I was praising Marcia, not insulting her Also, to know which characters are really good, you gotta play. Personal Experience does have some importance after all. I was a lot more tired than I thought. Now your post makes sense. @Mekkah, there's a lot of bosses Marcia can double a lot earlier than Jill. Actually, looking at it, most of the bosses will avoid being doubled by Jill, save the slow ones, while Marcia will be doubling literally every boss that she can actually damage by 20/13, which, by the time those bosses come around, she should be at or near. Then there's also the faster enemies, like pegs and SMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) Marcia doesn't actually have "good" combat at equal levels to the rest of the team. BEXP dump on fliers in general really just breaks the game though, especially in a game where the enemies are really weak. Edited December 23, 2011 by smash fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Marcia doesn't actually have "good" combat at equal levels to the rest of the team. BEXP dump on fliers in general really just breaks the game though, especially in a game where the enemies are really weak. She's got similar stats to Kieran and Oscar. A little more speed and a bunch more res for a tiny bit less strength and a little less defense. Her combat is on par with everyone else's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) oh wait, at equal levels she actually does. My mistake. I meant to say that she's just underleveled. A ~6/0 Marcia is losing to base Kieran or 12/0 supported oscar in stats. Marcia without BEXP will have stats around units like Mia/Neph/Zihark. edit: but again, there's so much bexp in the game that bexp dump breaks the game. Edited December 23, 2011 by smash fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 13. Percival, from FE6 Did you come visit to hear about my Percival? Good! Then listen up! My favorite Percival... It's...strong...lovely...smart...plus...amazing...you think so?...oh yes...it...mounted...fast...love it! Use any sword, lance or axe...when...fighting...durable...RNG proof...HM bonuses... Oops, look at the time! I've kept you too long! Percival joins you and basically just asks "alright, where do you want me to start killing first?" He's good to go, pretty much! Bases in Str and Spd are both at 20 in HM (as long as he's recruited in Ch15), he has around 50 HP. Then there's the A's in both swords and lances, and then a very workable C in axes which give him Killer Axes, which may be the only 1-range axes he needs. You can adapt Percival to pretty much any situation just through weapon switching. Armorslayers, and to a lesser extent Hammers, can take care of Knights and Generals. Brave weapons can allow him to hit twice before an enemy counters, or sometimes allow him to quad. Hand Axes and Javelins allow him to counter at range. Horseslayer crushes mounted enemies. And when things get serious and you have to deal with Mamkutes in your face, Percival can reasonably weild either Durandal or Malte (most likely the latter) to beat those as well. The only problem with the huge weapon selection is that weapons have very poor hit in FE6, and anything above iron can easily be deemed unreliable. Percival also only has 5 inventory slots, so you'll need a bit of planning to make sure he always has what he needs. I'll admit I'm not much of a planner, and my Paladins are generally carrying three Iron weapons, a Javelin and a Hand Axe or something like that. But that's okay, they're very strong like that too. Percival is obviously of great help in any kind of efficiency run where growth units just can't flourish as much as they can in slower runs. But even in a growth run, Percival is about as good (if not better than) a raised Alance, just without supports. Oh, and a very healthy 13 Res that makes him just that much better against magic enemies. Also, Percival saves your ass back at the end of Ch8x, with the help of Cecilia, so without him you wouldn't even be able to play the rest of the game. Percival for top tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 You didn't mention how much of a looker he is, too. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Yeah he did. "Lovely", even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I never see "lovely" as a term to describe looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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