I got a good lol out of this site

[Ansem]

... You guys are arguing religion in a thread in FFTF

Gtfo

[Rehab]

with all the proof how random evolution could produce a world that shows an obvious design.

Well, there are vestigial organs in however many organisms, and our reproductive organs share space with our sewage system. That seems odd for an omniscient designer, I'd rather keep them separate. And the theory of evolution is not completely random, it's selective of extremely varied genetic variations and mutations, depending on the environment.

[uguu]

Most elements being naturally created by giant exploding balls of fire doesn't seem very smart either imo

[Jack of the Dead]

Well, there are vestigial organs in however many organisms, and our reproductive organs share space with our sewage system. That seems odd for an omniscient designer, I'd rather keep them separate. And the theory of evolution is not completely random, it's selective of extremely varied genetic variations and mutations, depending on the environment.

well the "vestigial" organs in humans actually have a function. hair serves as a sensory function, muscles are anchored to the tailbone, and the appendix aids in digestion. (some people still count that last one as vestigial.)

I think of the reproductive system as efficient. urine is sterile, and it would clean out any leftover semen that is in the urethra. and the fact is that it works really well.

also, for the mutations to occur, they would have to be random. and the fittest mutation survived right? well, how do you get an irreducibly complex system out of small steps? lungs don't work without the heart. heart doesn't work without the liver, liver doesn't work without the brain. and the brain doesn't work without any of that. if you take away a step the entire organism dies.

[Defeatist Elitist]

It's fair because you choose where your allegiances lie. you can choose the world or you can choose God and his laws. you pick your home, so to speak. as for not agreeing with his rules, just because you don't agree with a law doesn't mean you are exempt from it. try going 100mph in a 30mpn zone. You can say you didn't agree with the law, but you still have to deal with it.

So there's this guy, he has all the power and knows everything, and if you break his rules and/or don't absolutely worship him he will torture you for eternity. Sounds like a completely fair guy. If he led a third world country, we would call him a dictator, but fuck, call him god if you'd like.

as for denying his existence, it's also evident that there is a design in the world. thats how people know there is a higher power. why do you think every civilization had a god or gods that they worshipped? they realized that someone had to make all this.

There is no evidence of design in the world, and every "example" of it tends to betray a complete incapability to reason or understand scientific phenomena. Regardless, there are some civilizations that never had gods they worshipped, or never had gods that are even remotely similar to the Abrahamic ones. Beyond that, this is possibly the shittiest argument of all time. Ancient civilizations aren't exactly well known for being clever or getting things right. People believed completely retarded things for years, and some people still do. The Bible says some shit that is flat out wrong in a hilarious way (the entirety of Genesis, the flood, people living for hundreds of years, the world being flat and supported by pillars, etc etc), as do most holy books. The idea that we should believe this shit just because they believed it is beyond ludicrous. They did not understand the world even remotely, and most religions likely stem in part from an attempt by them to explain the world given their practically non-existent knowledge of it.

and for those that never learned or believed in the wrong thing, that's where the burden falls upon believers to spread the word. the point being, A higher power is evident. its man's job to find out which one.

A higher power is not evident, and I challenge you to prove it is.

the thing about Christ is that you have to understand his nature and why he was here in the first place. Christ was there at creation. the trinity existed before creation. Christ took a human form, went through everything we go through as humans, and was sacrificed because he was perfect. I'm sure you heard of the practice of sacrificing a lamb for sins. well, Christ took on the sins of the world, not just one person, and paid for it in blood. which fulfilled the need for payment of sins. Christ wasn't just the son of God, he was God. God made it so everyone in the world could be saved. all they had to do was choose.

Christ's sacrifice was possibly the weakest shit I can think of. Seriously, if you're immortal and know it, sacrificing yourself has absolutely no significance or importance. Regardless of that, if God wasn't a massive dick he could just save everybody. Also, believing in an all powerful, all knowing god, and free will is completely contradictory.

Holy fuck we just picked up another bona fide retard.

[Defeatist Elitist]

well the "vestigial" organs in humans actually have a function. hair serves as a sensory function, muscles are anchored to the tailbone, and the appendix aids in digestion. (some people still count that last one as vestigial.)

I think of the reproductive system as efficient. urine is sterile, and it would clean out any leftover semen that is in the urethra. and the fact is that it works really well.

also, for the mutations to occur, they would have to be random. and the fittest mutation survived right? well, how do you get an irreducibly complex system out of small steps? lungs don't work without the heart. heart doesn't work without the liver, liver doesn't work without the brain. and the brain doesn't work without any of that. if you take away a step the entire organism dies.

Take a fucking biology course (or even just read some actual scientific articles) or get the fuck out.

[Zanarkin]

It's fair because you choose where your allegiances lie. you can choose the world or you can choose God and his laws. you pick your home, so to speak. as for not agreeing with his rules, just because you don't agree with a law doesn't mean you are exempt from it. try going 100mph in a 30mpn zone. You can say you didn't agree with the law, but you still have to deal with it.

as for denying his existence, it's also evident that there is a design in the world. thats how people know there is a higher power. why do you think every civilization had a god or gods that they worshipped?

why do most civilizations had gods? Because people are scared of the unknown, to solve it, they made up gods in order to explain things.

and for those that never learned or believed in the wrong thing, that's where the burden falls upon believers to spread the word. the point being, A higher power is evident. its man's job to find out which one.

What if somebody went an told them it was somebody else, but no one ever told them that "that god is wrong pick the the one i tell you". There is still that unfair issue here.

the thing about Christ is that you have to understand his nature and why he was here in the first place. Christ was there at creation. the trinity existed before creation. Christ took a human form, went through everything we go through as humans, and was sacrificed because he was perfect. I'm sure you heard of the practice of sacrificing a lamb for sins. well, Christ took on the sins of the world, not just one person, and paid for it in blood. which fulfilled the need for payment of sins. Christ wasn't just the son of God, he was God. God made it so everyone in the world could be saved. all they had to do was choose.

I'm sorry why can't this benevolent god need blood for him to forgive humanity?

I hear about all these contradictions, but I haven't seen any that hold water. care to share a few?

and the writing was inspired by God. man wrote it according to God's will. they used their own styles, their own metaphors, but in the end, it came from God.

Some contradictions:

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Good or evil?

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

So is he god of war or of peace? Which is it?

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Jesus says that he is = to his father, but then says his god > jesus.

and the writing was inspired by God. man wrote it according to God's will. they used their own styles, their own metaphors, but in the end, it came from God.

Bible is still flawed then It was written by people "under the influence of god". If i were to tell you that i was inspired to make another bible for modern times by god, would you believe me? Probably not, so what makes them different?

the only thing I can get from this is that you are against using the resources on the earth.

the Bible said man was put into the world to be a steward of the world, meaning he can do with it what he wants but he has to take care of it. not sure what the problem is there.

I'm not against using them, but i am against abusing them. And that second part you have there wasn't shared by most people back a few centuries ago. History tells me, that all people wanted to do back then was to do whatever they wanted with the earth, and never took care of it.

Most elements being naturally created by giant exploding balls of fire doesn't seem very smart either imo

Its called nuclear fussion, where the temperature gets so hot, the atoms smash together forming a new element. Its not that dumb when you look into it. I also believe it has been tested before but do not wuote me on that because i may be remembering wrong.

[uguu]

Its called nuclear fussion, where the temperature gets so hot, the atoms smash together forming a new element. Its not that dumb when you look into it. I also believe it has been tested before but do not wuote me on that because i may be remembering wrong.

I was actually saying that if I was gonna make a universe I would not make it like that because sure it sounds cool but in practice I think there are plenty of ways you could make it so that it is a lot less, uhh, everything. aka I was responding to his obvious design comment which implies intelligent design.

[Zanarkin]

I was actually saying that if I was gonna make a universe I would not make it like that because sure it sounds cool but in practice I think there are plenty of ways you could make it so that it is a lot less, uhh, everything. aka I was responding to his obvious design comment which implies intelligent design.

Ah... my bad, a misinterpretation of your statement

[uguu]

don't worry everyone else did as well they just thought I was being sarcastic

[Jack of the Dead]

So there's this guy, he has all the power and knows everything, and if you break his rules and/or don't absolutely worship him he will torture you for eternity. Sounds like a completely fair guy. If he led a third world country, we would call him a dictator, but fuck, call him god if you'd like.

you're missing the fact that it's a choice. mankind is corrupt. unholy. evil in nature. Don't tell me you never had the urge to do anything wrong. that's called a sinful nature. because of that we are literally separate from God. now God made an order that he was going to stick to. sacrifice for mercy. well. he sacrificed himself for complete redemtion of all mankind. all they needed to do was turn away from sin. Didn't mean they were always going to be perfect afterwards. to err is human, and christians are still human.

There is no evidence of design in the world, and every "example" of it tends to betray a complete incapability to reason or understand scientific phenomena. Regardless, there are some civilizations that never had gods they worshipped, or never had gods that are even remotely similar to the Abrahamic ones. Beyond that, this is possibly the shittiest argument of all time. Ancient civilizations aren't exactly well known for being clever or getting things right. People believed completely retarded things for years, and some people still do. The Bible says some shit that is flat out wrong in a hilarious way (the entirety of Genesis, the flood, people living for hundreds of years, the world being flat and supported by pillars, etc etc), as do most holy books. The idea that we should believe this shit just because they believed it is beyond ludicrous. They did not understand the world even remotely, and most religions likely stem in part from an attempt by them to explain the world given their practically non-existent knowledge of it.

well I find it interesting that the entire world works together. in order for plants to survive they need Carbon dioxide and light along with other nutrients. they give off oxygen. animals use oxygen and give off Carbon dioxide. the human body. irreducibly complex. its like a watch. if you take a piece out of the watch its not going to work anymore. same way with the human body. as I said earlier, you don't get that from random chance and evolution. there is too much complexity for there to not be a creator. Notice I'm not saying this prove that God is the one that did this. This just shows that there was a creator.

the earth was also different back then. It had an atmosphere that was able to sustain life, like the dinosaurs that do not exist today. man could have lived for hundreds of years. there is also evidence of a great catastrophe that hit the earth. I remember reading about some digs in North america that yielded dinosaur bones. most of them were cracked or completely broken. evidence that something big hit. wouldn't a worldwide flood fit in this instance? and I would like for you to include a civilization that didn't have some sort of higher power that you can think of off the top of you head. because every major civilization recognized a higher power. and I suppose that by flat you mean the whole ends of the earth deal. that meaning that chrisitians were supposed to go to all the world to preach. and the majority of the world didn't know if the world was flat or not. it was said so that everyone would understand their mission. I've never seen anything that said the earth was supported by pillars. care to show me where?

A higher power is not evident, and I challenge you to prove it is.

I challenge you to prove to me that the world can exist the way it has being the result of an explosion that resulted of infinite matter (aka nothing) and how things could change into what they are today and how we have no actual record in 5000 years of a species experiencing a significant change.

Christ's sacrifice was possibly the weakest shit I can think of. Seriously, if you're immortal and know it, sacrificing yourself has absolutely no significance or importance. Regardless of that, if God wasn't a massive dick he could just save everybody. Also, believing in an all powerful, all knowing god, and free will is completely contradictory.

the significance is shown above. and how does that fact that he knows all that will happen effect the premise of free will?

Holy fuck we just picked up another bona fide retard.

sure, assholery helps.

[Zanarkin]

... You guys are arguing religion in a thread in FFTF

Gtfo

well... It is far from the forest, we are allowed to go as off topic as we want to.

[peener weener]

It's fair because you choose where your allegiances lie. you can choose the world or you can choose God and his laws. you pick your home, so to speak. as for not agreeing with his rules, just because you don't agree with a law doesn't mean you are exempt from it. try going 100mph in a 30mpn zone. You can say you didn't agree with the law, but you still have to deal with it.

I behave by the law because there is an enforcing body. This means that if I fuck up, there is a thing that exists which will give me shit for it. The enforcing body exists and I can't deny this. Now you're saying I have to follow the law of a thing that does not have any backing evidence of its existence (we can safely claim it does not exist until proven otherwise) and its only enforcing body is its fanatics?

as for denying his existence, it's also evident that there is a design in the world. thats how people know there is a higher power. why do you think every civilization had a god or gods that they worshipped? they realized that someone had to make all this.

Please show me this evident design. Also, do you really think ancient civilizations had a higher understandings of their surrounding, or at least high enough to see a "design"? You know, ancient civilizations worshipped things like rivers, the wind, or fertility. Or that the world was created by a couple of dudes destroying a giant made of ice, a bit of whom when destroyed became the world. How does this even remotely suggest they believed in a higher design? Besides, this is what research is for. We find plausible answers for phenomena instead of just labelling it "god/s did it" and call it a day. And before you say "those are just theories" I hope you fucking know what you're talking about.

and for those that never learned or believed in the wrong thing, that's where the burden falls upon believers to spread the word. the point being, A higher power is evident. its man's job to find out which one.

Again, how is a higher power evident, and how do you know that your god is the one true god? Because you were raised to believe so?

the thing about Christ is that you have to understand his nature and why he was here in the first place. Christ was there at creation. the trinity existed before creation. Christ took a human form, went through everything we go through as humans, and was sacrificed because he was perfect. I'm sure you heard of the practice of sacrificing a lamb for sins. well, Christ took on the sins of the world, not just one person, and paid for it in blood. which fulfilled the need for payment of sins. Christ wasn't just the son of God, he was God. God made it so everyone in the world could be saved. all they had to do was choose.

So we payed for our sins against god's laws by sacrificing god.

there is some truth to this. but there is a reason behind it. it makes us stronger. Christians, real Christians, actually get the worst of it. the bible says its gonna be hard. the rest of it is not testing. it is satan trying to pull people away.

Who are "real" Christians? What is "the worst of it"? Are you saying that Christians are the one who suffer the most?

I hear about all these contradictions, but I haven't seen any that hold water. care to share a few?

There's whole sites, you know.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html

and the writing was inspired by God. man wrote it according to God's will. they used their own styles, their own metaphors, but in the end, it came from God.

So there is no way to know which passage is metaphor and which passage is allegedly true happening. If I said Jesus's story was a metaphor on whateverthefuck (in this case I'll say how mankind's sins are only possible to be forgiven through sacrifice and worship), you'd have no way to prove otherwise? The bible is to everyone's own interpretation? Wouldn't this just mean that it's all metaphors?

[peener weener]

well the "vestigial" organs in humans actually have a function. hair serves as a sensory function, muscles are anchored to the tailbone, and the appendix aids in digestion. (some people still count that last one as vestigial.)

I think of the reproductive system as efficient. urine is sterile, and it would clean out any leftover semen that is in the urethra. and the fact is that it works really well.

also, for the mutations to occur, they would have to be random. and the fittest mutation survived right? well, how do you get an irreducibly complex system out of small steps? lungs don't work without the heart. heart doesn't work without the liver, liver doesn't work without the brain. and the brain doesn't work without any of that. if you take away a step the entire organism dies.

the fuck

[Jaybee]

...

[Jack of the Dead]

why do most civilizations had gods? Because people are scared of the unknown, to solve it, they made up gods in order to explain things.

What if somebody went an told them it was somebody else, but no one ever told them that "that god is wrong pick the the one i tell you". There is still that unfair issue here.

I'm sorry why can't this benevolent god need blood for him to forgive humanity?

It still tough to believe that they all came up with the same answer, a higher being or group of higher beings, out of chance.

and you're right. its not fair. but that's why christians are moving in places like africa, China, and south america to spread the word. guess what, the christian demographic is skyrocketing in those places. people are getting the message.

as I said to Defeatist, He made a system of sacrifice for mercy. so he made a pure human sacrifice, untainted by sin, to save humanity.

I'm not against using them, but i am against abusing them. And that second part you have there wasn't shared by most people back a few centuries ago. History tells me, that all people wanted to do back then was to do whatever they wanted with the earth, and never took care of it.

Some contradictions:

Good or evil?

So is he god of war or of peace? Which is it?

Jesus says that he is = to his father, but then says his god > jesus.

Bible is still flawed then It was written by people "under the influence of god". If i were to tell you that i was inspired to make another bible for modern times by god, would you believe me? Probably not, so what makes them different?

Quote

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. sounds like he's going to wipe them off the map for no reason. he's is actually punishing those that went away from him. I know it still sounds harsh, but understand, these people knew without a doubt that God existed, and they still turned away.

the full chapter

God is like a father. punishing where he needs to, loving all the time. understand, he is the author of all life. he chooses who lives and who dies and for what reason. he is not one dimensional, not only having one purpose like the greek gods or arabic gods.

Quote

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. this was from the Israelites praising God for delivering them from Egypt. its praising him for protecting them from egypt.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen. this was written by Paul to the Romans. God is peaceful, according to the verse you listed above.

as he is peaceful, he is a protector. He is not a God that sits around and never did anything. he is active.

Quote

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

this is where the trinity comes in. Jesus is God. however, his role is under that of God the Father. The three persons of God all do different things. God the father is greater, but God the son is still God.

[Jack of the Dead]

I could give you the full answer to this. but no one on this forum would actually listen anyway.

there is a reason why I said this.

[peener weener]

you're missing the fact that it's a choice. mankind is corrupt. unholy. evil in nature. Don't tell me you never had the urge to do anything wrong. that's called a sinful nature.

If god is omni-potent, he can change human nature or animal nature or whichever nature as he pleases.

well I find it interesting that the entire world works together. in order for plants to survive they need Carbon dioxide and light along with other nutrients. they give off oxygen. animals use oxygen and give off Carbon dioxide.

Plants "use" oxygen and "give off" carbon dioxide too.

the human body. irreducibly complex. its like a watch. if you take a piece out of the watch its not going to work anymore. same way with the human body. as I said earlier, you don't get that from random chance and evolution. there is too much complexity for there to not be a creator. Notice I'm not saying this prove that God is the one that did this. This just shows that there was a creator.

You are saying that because something is complex there must be a creator. Do you even understand the basics of evolution? It's "irreducibly complex" because if you take a man's liver out of his living fucking body, of course it'll die. But evolution (and devolution for that matter) is an extremely gradual change. If you think "mutation" means that your one out of ten babies might be born without a liver and that this is evolution, you're a dumbass. However, a system can and will become increasingly complex.

Also, you say you aren't claiming that god was the one that did this, but you do claim that this shows there was a creator. This basically means that you're either claiming that there is a different creator which is not your god or the creator is your god which would make the statement completely unnecessary.

By the way, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmaker_analogy#Criticism

the earth was also different back then. It had an atmosphere that was able to sustain life, like the dinosaurs that do not exist today. man could have lived for hundreds of years.

...how does this even make sense

there is also evidence of a great catastrophe that hit the earth. I remember reading about some digs in North america that yielded dinosaur bones. most of them were cracked or completely broken. evidence that something big hit. wouldn't a worldwide flood fit in this instance?

Wouldn't a massive unicorn dick attack also fit?

and I would like for you to include a civilization that didn't have some sort of higher power that you can think of off the top of you head. because every major civilization recognized a higher power.

The fact that a civilization had a religion or religions doesn't mean that there were absolutely zero non-practicers or non-believers. Also, all atheists that live today count as part of a civilization. Unless you're saying we're less than humans. Whatever that means. Also, "all major civilizations." Minor civilizations do not count of course?

and I suppose that by flat you mean the whole ends of the earth deal. that meaning that chrisitians were supposed to go to all the world to preach. and the majority of the world didn't know if the world was flat or not.

Let's grab all of the mistakes in the bible and pass them off as metaphors

I've never seen anything that said the earth was supported by pillars. care to show me where?

1 Sam 2:8

Psalm 75:3

I challenge you to prove to me that the world can exist the way it has being the result of an explosion that resulted of infinite matter (aka nothing) and how things could change into what they are today and how we have no actual record in 5000 years of a species experiencing a significant change.

...the fuck

the significance is shown above. and how does that fact that he knows all that will happen effect the premise of free will?

Free will is outside god's omnipotence and omniscience? Therefore god is neither omni-potent nor omniscient.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Stolypin Necktie

[Solanum Tuberosum]

there is a reason why I said this.

the same could be said of you to the others

[Jack of the Dead]

for the whole pillars thing, that actually means foundations. meaning the earth and everything in and below it.

can you trace the steps of evolution? what proof from the world proves the link between man and ape? it was an assumption that there is no higher power that led to this theory. not the proof found in the world. there is no fossil evidence. no links. nothing definitive. evolution does not make sense, believe it or not.

Biogenesis. life comes from life. if there was nothing alive before a certain point in time, how does it magically start living? how does the human have morality? why does the human have a capacity for the abstract and things that are above that of an animals? can you logically answer those questions?

that is really all there is to it.

[Rehab]

I'm sorry, but there's a lot you seem to be taking for granted about the theory of evolution (side note: "just a theory" is a non-statement, a hypothesis does not become a theory without a strong body of replicable evidence pointing towards its likelihood) and the origin of life that is either simply untrue, or misstated so as to be very close.

We don't actually know how intelligent all other animals are. We haven't seen very many animals that have obviously demonstrated the capacity to create and understand symbolism, but it's possible we're getting on to something with dolphins, it's still being researched. We don't really know whether no other animal has that capacity, or morality, or other things like language that are widely assumed to be uniquely human abilities. What we do have is room for doubt, and that's likely an understatement.

I suggest trying Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene if you're curious, both about some of the above and opinions about the origin of life (spoilers: proteins take a longass time to develop and put themselves together).

Edited December 31, 2011 by Rehab

[peener weener]

for the whole pillars thing, that actually means foundations. meaning the earth and everything in and below it.

can you trace the steps of evolution? what proof from the world proves the link between man and ape? it was an assumption that there is no higher power that led to this theory. not the proof found in the world. there is no fossil evidence. no links. nothing definitive. evolution does not make sense, believe it or not.

Biogenesis. life comes from life. if there was nothing alive before a certain point in time, how does it magically start living? how does the human have morality? why does the human have a capacity for the abstract and things that are above that of an animals? can you logically answer those questions?

that is really all there is to it.

I have no idea if I should cry or I should cry. I literally fell off my chair reading this.

[uguu]

for the whole pillars thing, that actually means foundations. meaning the earth and everything in and below it.

can you trace the steps of evolution? what proof from the world proves the link between man and ape? it was an assumption that there is no higher power that led to this theory. not the proof found in the world. there is no fossil evidence. no links. nothing definitive. evolution does not make sense, believe it or not.

Biogenesis. life comes from life. if there was nothing alive before a certain point in time, how does it magically start living? how does the human have morality? why does the human have a capacity for the abstract and things that are above that of an animals? can you logically answer those questions?

that is really all there is to it.

There is fossil evidence. Hell, there's even proof of minor region-based differences in humans. You didn't do your research at all, you're just making convenient things up as you go along. The idea of evolution is based entirely on natural selection, and as you would have noticed if you looked at the article Stolypin Necktie posted you would have seen that even Charles Darwin believed in intelligent design until he started to realize that the distribution of species actually didn't make a ton of sense under the ideas of intelligent design. He wasn't just making things up like people did throughout history in attempt to explain things they had no idea what was going on with.

Another thing to note is that life isn't really a thing to glorify. You can pretend it's notable and all, but really now, it's just a set of systems which work together in a way that allows, uhh, whatever life is defined as. Humans also aren't wholly notable. We have the brain of a dolphin, the body of a monkey, and these work together to basically give us a glorified version of a beaver's niche. As for morality, that's a thing that's basically automatically programmed in by the aforementioned systems. Why do lions not eat each other? Same reason humans normally don't either. The only reason that humans can be larger dicks than other animals is because we're more based on thinking than most other animals, I guess is the best way to put it? I mean, dolphins have been observed to gossip among each other and be kinda dicks themselves iirc. (Edit: Didn't a dolphin try to rape a woman too? Dolphins are HORRIBLE)

Also this post is horrible because I'm not really backing my stuff up much except for that one thing, but then, even if it's basically impossible for you to due to what you're arguing for, you aren't either.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Hikarussr

[Mousefire]

for the whole pillars thing, that actually means foundations. meaning the earth and everything in and below it.

can you trace the steps of evolution? what proof from the world proves the link between man and ape? it was an assumption that there is no higher power that led to this theory. not the proof found in the world. there is no fossil evidence. no links. nothing definitive. evolution does not make sense, believe it or not.

Biogenesis. life comes from life. if there was nothing alive before a certain point in time, how does it magically start living? how does the human have morality? why does the human have a capacity for the abstract and things that are above that of an animals? can you logically answer those questions?

that is really all there is to it.

I've got to admit, this is one of the least swaying things I have ever read. For one thing, you've successfully shown you know diddly-shit about the opposing side's argument, i.e. evolution. Also, the bio-Genesis fallacy your trying to pull doesn't really work when you can't say what god comes from. Seriously, I have never heard a good argument about the origins of God.

[Rehab]

All I can think right now is BLACKEN BLACKEN BLACKEN BLACKEN 8{