Raging against Myrmidons and Swordmasters

[Hibari]

I don't know. Caps and all aside, I can't really find a unit that I'd call terrible or the like. Each unit is unique and made to fulfill its own particular purpose. I'll admit some units annoy me, but I laugh it off and just find better was to use them.

In short: The are no poor units, only poor use of them.

[Doom103]

Mrymidons and sword masters are good.

there high skill and luck helps to get out of stick situations

now if edward keeps dieing you have problem (btw i hate edward)

Mrymidons and Swordmasters shouldnt be front line EVER so maybe thats the reason why he die?

sword masters arent supposed to take hits

[Rehab]

What are they supposed to do?

[sandmanccl]

If guys that can't use ranged weapons aren't supposed to be grunt units, then what the hell are they supposed to do? Cleanup? Big deal. I got lots of other guys much better at doing that.

They're supposed to be able to tank by dodging, except that that's a bad idea on hard mode difficulties throughout the series because enemies have a significantly good chance to hit you unless you abuse arenas or something.

I'm not saying I want them to tank; I'm saying I want them to be able to survive beyond a hit so attacking things is viable for them.

[Gatrie: Guns Blazing]

You do realize my comment was made towards Bianchi and not you right?

THATS HIKARI TO YOU MISTER!!

BOW BEFORE THE GODDESS!!!

[Gatrie: Guns Blazing]

If guys that can't use ranged weapons aren't supposed to be grunt units, then what the hell are they supposed to do? Cleanup? Big deal. I got lots of other guys much better at doing that.

They're supposed to be able to tank by dodging, except that that's a bad idea on hard mode difficulties throughout the series because enemies have a significantly good chance to hit you unless you abuse arenas or something.

I'm not saying I want them to tank; I'm saying I want them to be able to survive beyond a hit so attacking things is viable for them.

...they can use ranged weapons...

brief list:

lightbrand

rune sword

sonic sword

wind blade

storm sword

tempest blade...

need i continue?

[_____]

...they can use ranged weapons...

brief list:

lightbrand

rune sword

sonic sword

wind blade

storm sword

tempest blade...

need i continue?

... Any unit can use a ranged weapon. The truth is that sword ranged weapons suck.

[sandmanccl]

*facepalm*

There's ranged weapons, sure, but 1) they are rare (except in Radiant Dawn from what I've played) and 2) that still wouldn't make them a "ranged character." Unless you're using magic or a bow, you SHOULD be able to take a couple hits without being in danger of dying.

[Rehab]

Just a nitpick, but Axes have the tomahawk for a cool multi-range thing, and lances have the short spear. Swords have the, uh, light brand?

[Liz]

well, all i can say is that you're being completely unfair with the swordmaster class. i think they're perfectly good, and i find that they're killing machines.

you may not like them, but that doesn't mean that they suck, it just means that they aren't useful in your particular playing style.

for example, i hardly ever use knights/generals because they are too slow and cumbersome for my taste. but just because i don't like them doesn't mean they're not good. they are good tankers, of course, but i prefer swordmasters because they double strike, which usually deals more damage to enemies than the one hit of a general, and they dodge the majority of the hits.

[Florete]

well, all i can say is that you're being completely unfair with the swordmaster class. i think they're perfectly good, and i find that they're killing machines.

you may not like them, but that doesn't mean that they suck, it just means that they aren't useful in your particular playing style.

for example, i hardly ever use knights/generals because they are too slow and cumbersome for my taste. but just because i don't like them doesn't mean they're not good. they are good tankers, of course, but i prefer swordmasters because they double strike, which usually deals more damage to enemies than the one hit of a general, and they dodge the majority of the hits.

This is the topic winning post. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[sandmanccl]

Double attacking just means you use your weapons up faster. A slow guy who only hits once but has some power behind it will still kill enemies in two attacks, whereas it might take 3 or 4 for the quick guy who double attacks. That, in turn, means you spend less money in the long run, which is always handy.

Just saying.

You guys also realize that Swordmasters and whatnot are the most commonly represented class in every FE game, right? There's a reason. Intelligent Systems realizes that the vast majority of players are going to go through a few of them as they are incredibly frail and die easily.

I don't like people dying. I like it when people don't die. That generally fits into my game plan better.

And since when did all threads on the internet become a competition? How does one person "beat" someone else who's backing up his argument with his own logic? Just because you're a mod/admin (I can never tell who's what when I'm new somewhere) doesn't mean YOUR opinion is the only valid one out there. The only swordmasters I like are, like, Stefan, because he joins as a usable unit and doesn't require any work. There's too few guys out there like that.

Alternatively, you can just find a Cavalier with good speed growths. He might not double things initially, but will eventually, and they tend to have better strength and defense. And they are mounted, and they can use multiple weapon types. Saves you the hassle of leveling up a liability.

[Meteor]

I dislike them as well, but Generals' low movement always make them a chore to use...

[Liz]

Double attacking just means you use your weapons up faster. A slow guy who only hits once but has some power behind it will still kill enemies in two attacks, whereas it might take 3 or 4 for the quick guy who double attacks. That, in turn, means you spend less money in the long run, which is always handy.

Just saying.

You guys also realize that Swordmasters and whatnot are the most commonly represented class in every FE game, right? There's a reason. Intelligent Systems realizes that the vast majority of players are going to go through a few of them as they are incredibly frail and die easily.

I don't like people dying. I like it when people don't die. That generally fits into my game plan better.

And since when did all threads on the internet become a competition? How does one person "beat" someone else who's backing up his argument with his own logic? Just because you're a mod/admin (I can never tell who's what when I'm new somewhere) doesn't mean YOUR opinion is the only valid one out there. The only swordmasters I like are, like, Stefan, because he joins as a usable unit and doesn't require any work. There's too few guys out there like that.

Alternatively, you can just find a Cavalier with good speed growths. He might not double things initially, but will eventually, and they tend to have better strength and defense. And they are mounted, and they can use multiple weapon types. Saves you the hassle of leveling up a liability.

you have some valid points.

however, there are many loopholes that you have overlooked. for example, in the "swordmasters are frail" you are right that it usually takes only a few hits, while generals require many more hits. but you don't take in consideration that swordmasters are hardly ever hit. they rely on dodging, which is the point, because if they didn't then they would be overpowered. as such, everything pretty much equals out in the end. generals take more hits, but receive less damage. swordmasters take more damage, but receive less hits.

if you have your swordmasters die too often, then something is wrong with your strategy. i very rarely have any of my units die, and i tend to use swordmasters, falcon knights, and sages a lot, which are considered extremely frail by many.

they also have high critical hit rate. and even though its a bit icky to rely on chance in order to win a battle, in later levels the criticals happen frequently enough. especially if you use a weapon with high criticality (such as killing edge and wo dao). and in the case of PoR and RD, the skill system makes them deadlier yet.

well, my point is, just because you don't like them, doesn't mean they suck. i find them to be very efficient and with a bit of patience they grow into killing machines. perhaps this is one of the things that i love the most about swordmasters. they are not a cheap way to kill your enemies, you have to work with them and make them grow until you have an amazing unit. at least for me, swordmasters are one of the unit types that give me the most satisfaction in raising.

[Meteor]

Beginning to mid-game they are perfectly fine. They just have trouble hurting things in the late chapters.

[Liz]

Beginning to mid-game they are perfectly fine. They just have trouble hurting things in the late chapters.

i've personally haven't had any trouble dishing out damage with them

with the obvious exception of generals, that is one unit that a swordmaster can't kill

Edited July 23, 2008 by Hikari

[Rehab]

Let's say a knight both misses and gets hit, which is about as bad as it gets for him when taking on a common enemy. "kk lol just gonna wait another turn then." If a myrmidon both misses and gets hit, they've fucked up pretty badly. Point blank, shit happens with the rng, and knights are much safer from that shit than myrmidons are. Myrmidons aren't as safe units to use as many other kinds since they both usually have to be up close to hit and aren't good at taking the odd hit, and they don't really have the strength to turn that around early on when everybody's weapons suck, them having the least powerful brawling weapons in the game notwithstanding.

Yeah, every class can be good if it has good units, which swordmasters do have enough of as far as growths go. They're just kind of a pain since the only thing they really excel at, having better rng ballparks than other classes, can be screwed by the way the games work, while raw power and defense are pretty solid.

[Liz]

i personally like using swordmasters, because its more exciting to use them than generals.

especially when you teach mia wrath and have her go on a killing rampage when she has low HP

[Meteor]

I gave it to Rolf for the lulz.

[Rehab]

Also, everybody is gay for Volke.

[Liz]

Also, everybody is gay for Volke.

..... don't let Fireman hear you......

[Meteor]

Who said it was a bad thing?

[Fireman]

..... don't let Fireman hear you......

I already did.

[Meteor]

He already did.

[Rehab]

Not like it's his fault. Volke's just great.