Paperblade Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 wtf people have different values and may even be less informed than me This will not stand, I better go mock them on the internet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Sure, but you'd expect that someone who goes through all the effort to like, actually write up a character guide would also go through the effort to do five minutes of basic research, maybe ask some other people for their opinions, and so on. No because the fuck kind of research do you need to do beyond growths and base stats in this game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I must agree with Paper and Mekkah on this one. Also, I sued Rolf first time. I can see why he sucks and he took WAAAAAAAAY too much effort but he was kinda fun I guess. I'd be willing to try him again sometime for laughs. Edited January 19, 2012 by Kirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) No because the fuck kind of research do you need to do beyond growths and base stats in this game? The issue is that he hasn't even researched those. If he had, he would know that Astrid and Rolf are virtually identical in terms of statistics, for instance, or that having stats in the mid-twenties is actually extremely good for this game. There are maybe four units in the game that can get multiple stats over 27, being Soren, Stefan, Zihark, and Gatrie. Or that he complains about Marcia's strength cap being 23, and then praises Rolf for having decent strength when he reachs 23STR at max level on average. Or that he talks about Soren without mentioning Soren's abysmal defense even once (but he mentions Makalov's bad resistance). Or he says that he "thinks" that Tormod ends up with the same stats as Soren. You don't have to be dondon to read stat averages, or notice basic flaws, like Soren's bad defense. Or to realise that a character guide is not to get on a soapbox and talk about what characters you "like", hence him not recommending many good character just because he doesn't like them. It would be fine if he ranked characters just based on their stats and didn't really care about movement and other abilities, but he doesn't even succeed in that. He doesn't seem to realise what the effect of the Knight Ward is, either. He doesn't know that Hard Mode and Normal Mode give the same BEXP. This is two years after the game was released. Edited January 19, 2012 by Anouleth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Come on, Rolf is hilarious. He's this frightened little dude, probably the same size as some of his bows, and he kills people. Leveling him up without BEXP, in the event that one decides they're going to use him for real, he kills a lot of fucking people, but he's still this sensitive kid. That's great. /never actually used Marcia much, for what were probably silly reasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 While I think the guys list is stupid for multiple reasons... it does irritate me to see people thinking that, just because things aren't like they are now and we 'know better', that it is stupid. There are reasons why someone would see Astrid as useless, there are reasons that someone would see value in Rolf... It's just that they aren't the reasons you could hold true in a tier list. That manner of thinking of things like a tier is... very frustrating to work against. I've been on both sides (favored and non) in the past, usually the latter, and it really bites to see a character you know can be good end up on the bottom of the list and treated awful while Marcus/Seth/Titania/Sothe gets pushed to the top. I liked Nino, I will admit she is bad by tier standards, but damnit I liked using her. I liked using Amelia, even though she is at the bottom of the list. I liked using Mia, even when she was considered to be 'low at best'. I liked using Ilyana even though she's considered bad... and justified or not, it is irritating to see them put so low. Part of the reason I ended up making my rating topic. It's not a tier list, but it tells you who is better. You can look at it and decide who and what you like about them, ignore one or two scores if you feel you aren't going to care about Speed/Flexibility/Customization, and the like... Sorry. Got carried away there. Anyways, though the list is crap, I think it's better to try and look and see why he thought those characters were good/bad and learn from that than to ridicule it. You can learn more about making a good RPG by reading F.A.T.A.L. and seeing what they did wrong, than by reading D&D and just copying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Also, changing standards and stuff, it's been mentioned to a degree already but I feel I'd like to elaborate. I've been on these forums for a while and I remember back a few years ago when Wolf, Sedgar and Sety were gamebreakers and people still said Seth was to be used sparingly (even though he was still considered great) rather than used to pwn everything ever for the entire game. Lute was considered pretty good still and FE9!Mia went through a bit of a polynomial (First people thought she was awesome, then it was decided she wasn't worth the effort and now she seems to be making a comeback, given some of the things I've seen recently). It may not cover everything on this list but at least some things are probably just "outdated" standards from back when it was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arvilino Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Way back on the Fire Emblem Sanctuary of Strategy forums the tier lists were alot different. But if I remember correctly even back then Titania was still considered a good character even shortly after FE9's release. I'd have to disagree that the persons list is based on the older standards. Since the worst parts of it lie on the persons idea of BEXP distribution and personal dislike of mounted units which is objectively poor since it's skewed in favour of who he thinks should have all your BEXP. Edited January 20, 2012 by arvilino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Way back on the Fire Emblem Sanctuary of Strategy forums the tier lists were alot different. But if I remember correctly even back then Titania was still considered a good character even shortly after FE9's release. I'd have to disagree that the persons list is based on the older standards. Since the worst parts of it lie on the persons idea of BEXP distribution and personal dislike of mounted units which is objectively poor since it's skewed in favour of who he thinks should have all your BEXP. FESS had tier lists? That's... somewhat surprising to me. But yeah, I'd agree with you on the second paragraph. On another unrelated note, I don't really think this guy's list is good enough of a reason to mock him for it. Edited January 20, 2012 by Black★Rock Shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Fair enough arvilino, I didn't think it would really apply much, I just thought it was worth another mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 FESS had tier lists? That's... somewhat surprising to me. Yeah, but we had better things to do sometimes than argue them. They didn't even make an appearance come FESS5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 How much does low move hurt? I assume this guide is supposed to be for people new to the game or the series (the only people who would actually entertain the idea of playing PoR on Easy) who would tend to play relatively conservatively I'd imagine. Yeah. When making a guide for new players, adding points like lower move isnt gonna matter too much. Newbs arent playing for efficiency, they are playing to get through the game. With guys like Soren, hes goinna look attractive to a new player because hes the first mage you get. Newbs might already have Soren leveled or promoted by the time Tormod or Calill shows up. Unless low move and junk like that is absolutely detrimental to casual/new player strategy, it shouldnt be considered that much. Way back on the Fire Emblem Sanctuary of Strategy forums the tier lists were alot different. But if I remember correctly even back then Titania was still considered a good character even shortly after FE9's release. FEWorld (i think thats what it was called. Its not FEPlanet) was the same way. But on there, there was an obscene amount of Geoffrey love. Tiers have totes shifted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) With guys like Soren, hes goinna look attractive to a new player because hes the first mage you get. Newbs might already have Soren leveled or promoted by the time Tormod or Calill shows up But not by the time Ilyana shows up. And Soren's growths compare favorably to Ilyana's in everything except Luck. Tormod does have better speed, luck, and defense growths than Soren, but not much better, and not enough to compensate for Soren's superior Magic and Skill growths. In short, it's not just new players who find Soren attractive. Edited January 20, 2012 by Paper Jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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