BBM Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Worse than Lakche who is bad 1.5/10 though at least she has a less stupid name. What are you smoking, Lakche is an awesome name. Radney gets a 4 from me. She has A Swords and Pursuit, which means she can at least do more than chip if you pass her a decent sword, which is more than some of the other subs can say. @Dondon- What is fair? In the rules for this thread, nowhere does it say that characters are to be ranked as if one is playing super-turbo mode. All it says is that they must be ranked according to gameplay performace. Playing super-turbo mode is a viable style of playing, but it is not the only one, and if other people choose to play the game differently than you do, and rank her based on that, it does not make them wrong. Edited March 13, 2012 by BigBangMeteor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I will give you one more chance to demonstrate that you are capable of reading comprehension by actually responding to whatever claims I've made instead of what you've thought I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esaka Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Quick question? For Sub rankings are we ranking in comparison to other subs, or to whoever? Regardless, Radley has that really early +3 or so STR with the J-convo and has pursuit. 5.5/10 Alos, she isn't a palette swap like her counterpart :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Quick question? For Sub rankings are we ranking in comparison to other subs, or to whoever? -Second Generation Note: Assume that Substitutes are done on a Subs-only run. Any "not ________" will not be accepted. reading comprehension is strong in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esaka Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I apologize, I had a long day and didn't feel like reading the rules :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I apologize, I had a long day and didn't feel like reading the rules :P That's never a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esaka Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ha ha, fair enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I will give you one more chance to demonstrate that you are capable of reading comprehension by actually responding to whatever claims I've made instead of what you've thought I said. You said that you found it funny how people think Lakche is so much better than Radney when she isn't that much better than her. I made an inference here, from the playstyle I've seen you promote in other places, that this is so because neither of them have a mount. Therefore, since neither of them are likely to get much fighting done outside of the Arena, Lakche's huge lead in just about everything doesn't really matter, so the difference is not as big as 6 points, which some people gave. To this, I responded that in a different style of playing, one where both see much more combat, and where Lakche ORKOs just about every non-boss character and Radney ORKOs very little, the difference might indeed be that large. If you are still finding my reading comprehension skills subpar, then I guess I'm just stupid, and there's nothing I can do about that but keep complaining about your posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) the point dondon was making was that the discrepancy should not be this big whether you go super turbo or not because they really are that similar if you do things right (hero sword, etc) two points I can see happening. Six points I can't. Edited March 14, 2012 by Camtech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 i dunno about other people but i just kinda put whatever number comes to my head first down for these ratings, i don't really remember/care what i gave other units Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) IDK maybe some of these people haven't used Radney and are just basing theoretical values and not having Meteor/Nihil + other possible skills too much or something I'd honestly just hold off rating subs that I haven't used period Edited March 14, 2012 by Luminescent Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I made an inference here, from the playstyle I've seen you promote in other places, that this is so because neither of them have a mount. okay i know not everyone is a genius like i am, and therefore i can't assume that To this, I responded that in a different style of playing, one where both see much more combat, and where Lakche ORKOs just about every non-boss character and Radney ORKOs very little, the difference might indeed be that large. except we are not comparing radney to lakche here, we are comparing radney to subs + fixed characters and lakche to subs + fixed characters. the bar is a lot lower for subs (i mean have you seen their bases and skills holy crap) If you are still finding my reading comprehension skills subpar, then I guess I'm just stupid, valid explanation, please expound further the point dondon was making was that the discrepancy should not be this big whether you go super turbo or not because they really are that similar if you do things right (hero sword, etc) good man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I'd honestly just hold off rating subs that I haven't used period I respect this. If there's one thing I hate (that I sometimes end up doing) it's people pretending they know what they are talking about. People should just do what you're doing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) the point dondon was making was that the discrepancy should not be this big whether you go super turbo or not because they really are that similar if you do things right (hero sword, etc) two points I can see happening. Six points I can't. In my subs playthrough, I'm not sure Radney ORKOed even the Fighters in Chapter 6. Lakche ORKOs just about everything that's not a boss. Maybe that's not a 6 point difference, but to me anyways, that's more than 2 points. It doesn't matter if Radney gets compared to subs + fixed characters and Lakche gets compared to children + fixed characters. They're both getting compared to fixed characters, and Lakche compares to them a lot better than Radney does. Edited March 14, 2012 by BigBangMeteor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Purple_Knight Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I'm pretty sure Big bang metor understood exactly what he was saying . He just offered a counter argument .he clearly got dondons point and simply disagreed . I think its extremely rude and pretentious to insult someone's comprehension skills . Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're an idiot who can't understand the point you're trying to make . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) the point is that it's not fair to compare radnay to fixed against lakche to fixed, it's so fucking lopsided it's hilarious. the bar for kids is lower for all-subs. I wish I could come up with some comparison to show the discrepancy, but the standards from the subs are so low that i can't. like, christ, if you want to roll it that way I could beat the game with all fixed and then your kids get nothing; hell, i'd almost find it easier that way. the fact that lakche compares more favorably is the reason for the two point discrepancy; but at some point you reach "is it dead yet" levels of power (Lakche, given the right tools, could probably be compared to Levin!Sety in regards to "ability to kill generics four times over before they have a chance to even attack back") and the difference is miniscule. Radnay can end up being the same as Lakche (a foot unit who kills things) with a little bit of extra work that Lakche doesn't require (as she gets inheritance). give Radnay the hero sword, or the hero axe if she's promoted (does johanalva want it that badly?), shit dies. maybe in one round, maybe in two, but that's not the issue. whether or not lakche could have done better is irrelevant because lakche is judged by much higher standards. would I take lakche over radnay if I could? yes. is that the point? no. in the end, lakche's overkill offense means nothing if she 2HKOs anyway; it doesn't matter if she has the option of getting 8974239 astra hits against Radnay's two if the enemy's dead regardless @purple - seeing as you appear to be missing the point as well i'm not surprised Edited March 14, 2012 by Camtech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I'd like to edit my vote for Radney from a 4 to a 6 then. Also, I don't think Forrests can use Axes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Forrests can't use axes. The Forrest class is basically SM with 3 less skl/spd and no Continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 um fuck me too used to inflation lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I think its extremely rude and pretentious to insult someone's comprehension skills . being rude is the pope's favorite activity only second to masturbation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renall Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 If your argument is "but in relative comparison, Lakche is no more useful to you among all the children than Radney is among all the substitutes," it's a point well taken, but I believe one can still justify the discrepancy. But maybe we should have separate lists entirely for Subs Run vs. Children Run, or not even rate the subs, because honestly no one is going to consciously rate Radney equal to or better than Lakche under any circumstances, even after explicitly being told not to compare them to each other. It's difficult to do that to begin with, because practically the only way to describe most subs is "like <replaced character>, but less good." To then turn around and say "Yes, but you must bear in mind to rate them as if the more good version of them doesn't exist" is very difficult to do appropriately. And if we're not rating, say, Radney relative to Celice, we might as well not be including her rating in the same list as Celice, because if I rate Radney vs. Celice and Lackhe vs. Celice, it's self-evident that Radney will fall shorter and thus end up rated lower. Likewise, generally one could possibly say many Delmuds are better than Oifaye, but Tristan is never better than Oifaye; logically then if Oifaye gets a 7, Delmud would get >7 and Tristan would get <7. But that effectively is creating a comparison between Delmud and Tristan that we're explicitly not supposed to be making (just in a roundabout way, by saying Oifaye outshines Tristan massively and perhaps Delmud not so massively). It essentially runs at cross purposes to the supposed rules we're trying to use to rate the substitutes (that no one is actually using). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethereal Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I would say the point is to not penalize them for not being the children characters. The fact that you lose Lakche is, to me, the only way you could possibly justify a 6 point difference in their scores. For example, Azel is scored at 5.3 points lower than Sigurd. Apparently Lakche has more over Radney than Sigurd has over Azel. lolno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Well maybe for slower players it could mean missing out on Hero or having to kill Ayra because they didn't go fast enough for her to not get paired :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Also, people just aren't consistent in how the rank people. Horace, for example, said, that he just puts down whatever comes to his head, and doesn't care what he put for other people. Plus, the bias point throws everything off. If, for example, two characters should be 2 points apart, but the worse character gets a bias point against him, and the better character gets a bias point for him, the difference becomes 4 points instead. Or the 2 points could become 0. In this case especially, since I think everybody but one person gave Sigurd a 10, there wasn't really even a bias point to give. But disregarding their actual votes, people gave bias points for Azel, and for Lakche, lowering the difference between Azel and Sigurd, and increasing that between Radney and Lakche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fala Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Inflation!Radney: She may be not as good Lakche but with the Answerer from Leafy-boy she becomes a tac-nuke. When she promotes she is a god. 9.5/10 Vanilla!Radney: I'd rather have Celice beat up Blume with a gardening hose. 0/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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