Editing the FE6 Patch

[Celice]

Isn't the name for this dragon, in this case, the same thing? As in, both demon and magic are connoted by the original name. If so, it's just a language thing, more than a literal magic/demon distinction.

[bookofholsety]

Are you sure Idounn is a Mage Dragon? The FE Wiki says that mage dragons target res, but AFAICT Idoun uses str. Her attack is translated by fans and on the wiki as "dark breath." She definitely bears strong similarities physically but her art is pretty different all the same. She also is a divine dragon made into a war dragon, so if that's different than the background for mage dragons in Akaneia, it would be questionable to equate them. Especially since none of those seem to have the ability to create more war dragons...

Their Japanese names are the same - 魔竜, which can be interpreted as both "mage dragon" and "demon dragon". Before the FE11 English release, the "Demon Dragon" translation was widely used for the Archanea ones.

That said, Idenn was referred to by that epithet in FE7's extended epilogue, where Jahn asks Zephiel, "For what reason have you awakened a demon dragon?". While for some things (classes, items, skills) having the terms used in later titles supercede older ones is a reasonable position, for something plot-related like this, consistency with FE7 makes much more sense.

[King Marth 64]

Are you sure Idounn is a Mage Dragon? The FE Wiki says that mage dragons target res, but AFAICT Idoun uses str. Her attack is translated by fans and on the wiki as "dark breath." She definitely bears strong similarities physically but her art is pretty different all the same. She also is a divine dragon made into a war dragon, so if that's different than the background for mage dragons in Akaneia, it would be questionable to equate them. Especially since none of those seem to have the ability to create more war dragons...

Isn't the name for this dragon, in this case, the same thing? As in, both demon and magic are connoted by the original name. If so, it's just a language thing, more than a literal magic/demon distinction.

It said right here in the Shadow Dragon content that have listed the fan names from FE1 and FE3 also:

http://serenesforest.../fe11/name.html

Ala actually is a kind of weather demon, apparently, though I somewhat doubt whoever called it alacalibur was thinking about that, since Balkan Ghosts are not really within the normal domain of FE7 allusions.

I am not exactly sure if the Aircalibur name is an official name that they given out like on Game Books or in the Official site or was just a Fan Translated name? I can ask Vincent about it he remembers?

Edited July 12, 2012 by King Marth 64

[shadowofchaos]

You know... This would be entirely funny if Popo just looks in here and throws all your guys' discussion out the window.

I think her entire point in starting this thing was to AVOID the whole changing names storm, and just improve the grammar if anything. She went far enough to change the descriptions of items to the localized versions... but cluttering up her topic while she's not even here to address ANY of them is just pretty much accomplishing nothing.

[King Marth 64]

You know... This would be entirely funny if Popo just looks in here and throws all your guys' discussion out the window.

I think her entire point in starting this thing was to AVOID the whole changing names storm, and just improve the grammar if anything. She went far enough to change the descriptions of items to the localized versions... but cluttering up her topic while she's not even here to address ANY of them is just pretty much accomplishing nothing.

Ok, sorry about that, but I'm just going to leave this note that, I did heard that FE4 Translation Team are using Celice's name as Serlis and Siglud as Sirgud that was came from the History of Fire Emblem section on the official site and they are going to use those name for the Updated Version of the Patch and the FE2 Gaiden Fan Translation Patch did have Alm's name as Alm was also used in the History of Fire Emblem section on the official site as well and Cellica's name as Celica was usedin the History of Fire Emblem section on the official site and in the Super Smash Bros. Brawl track is in the patch as well.

Edited July 12, 2012 by King Marth 64

[bookofholsety]

Ok, sorry about that, but I'm just going to leave this note that, I did heard that FE4 Translation Team are using Celice's name as Serlis and Siglud as Sirgud that was came from the History of Fire Emblem section on the official site and they are going to use those name for the Updated Version of the Patch and the FE2 Gaiden Fan Translation Patch did have Alm's name as Alm was also used in the History of Fire Emblem section on the official site as well and Cellica's name as Celica was usedin the History of Fire Emblem section on the official site and in the Super Smash Bros. Brawl track is in the patch as well.

What does any of this have to do with FE6? Last I checked, Sigurd, Serlis, Alm and Celica have nothing to do with this game.

(also it wasn't that website which caused Twilkitri to go with "Sigurd"; it's almost always been like that in the patch, and the use there just gave it some concrete status)

[King Marth 64]

What does any of this have to do with FE6? Last I checked, Sigurd, Serlis, Alm and Celica have nothing to do with this game.

(also it wasn't that website which caused Twilkitri to go with "Sigurd"; it's almost always been like that in the patch, and the use there just gave it some concrete status)

It was kinda just a reminder about the Aircublar did get named as Alacublar in the Sacred Stones and did use the Cheat Device, so we might use Alacublar in the patch just incase if anyone who does use it in the Sacred Stone and uses the cheat device to obtain the Aircublar (which its called Alacublar) and probably doesn't get confused with the Aircublar that are the same tome, sorry if I forgot to mentioned about this earlier.

Edited July 12, 2012 by King Marth 64

[Balcerzak]

I found that name about Alacalibur from there: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Aircalibur (we are still trying to figure out about it)

This is decidedly disingenuous.

The issue had been settled for years as using Aircalibur until you resurrected it with your unfathomable holy quest to use any "official names" however shitty they may be.

Where is it called Alacalibur exactly? I have never heard that name used for it before.--Otherarrow 15:58, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

   It's called that in FE8 (where it's unused) and also in the internal data for FE6. It might be better off mentioned as a smaller note though. Aveyn Knight 16:41, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

       Wait, if it is called Alacalibur in FE8 and the internal data for FE6, wouldn't that be a more legitimate "English" name than the fantranslated Aircalibur? Not that Aircalibur is an inaccurate translation or anything.--Otherarrow 19:19, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

           I was initially thinking yes. The main problem is that the romaji reads Eirukaribaa, so the second "a" (in Alacalibur) is kind of wrong. If they had called it something like Ale-calibur (as in "ale" for the alcholic substance) then I wouldn't be so worried. So instead, I think Aircalibur and Alacalibur are on even terms. (Aveyn Knight 20:00, 20 June 2009 (UTC) 

The icon it is using is the Excalibur icon, not the Aircalibur icon from FE6, anyone want to fix it? (I don't have the FE6 icons on me right now).

~CamusTheDark

So, what we are going to do with this page's name as Aircalibur, are we going to rename this page as Alacalibur or just leaving as Aircalibur? (I apologize if this is kinda like necroposting, but I am not quite atually sure if this done or not?)-- King Marth 64 (talk • other wikis • blogs) FE4_Junior_Lord_Sprite.gif Peace_Ness.png 17:19, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

   Good question. I personally say Aircalibur, because Ala was a scrapped idea, and never made a "real" appearance. --Thenewguy34(Other) 18:21, July 10, 2012 (UTC) 

Well, it had a note on the page that saids "Aircalibur still exists in Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones, but can only be obtained through the use of cheat devices." I am not sure if the Alacalibur name was only in the Japanese version or that name was mentioned outside of Japan in The Sacred Stones and I am not sure typically too sure if Aircalibur was a fan translated name or not, I don't use the cheat devices.-- King Marth 64 (talk • other wikis • blogs) FE4_Junior_Lord_Sprite.gif Peace_Ness.png 18:58, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

   Read the discussion above between Otherarrow and Aveyn Knight from June 2009. --Thenewguy34(Other) 20:56, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

       I'd suggest leaving it as Aircalibur, due to the familiarity. Besides, even though it's Alacalibur in the English version of TSS, the name is unused and not all unused names are thought out properly, like Mamucoot (or whatever) in Flametongue's unused alternate item description. Aveyn Knight 21:02, July 10, 2012 (UTC) 

[Popo]

You know... This would be entirely funny if Popo just looks in here and throws all your guys' discussion out the window.

I think her entire point in starting this thing was to AVOID the whole changing names storm, and just improve the grammar if anything. She went far enough to change the descriptions of items to the localized versions... but cluttering up her topic while she's not even here to address ANY of them is just pretty much accomplishing nothing.

I'm just watching to see how this plays out for the moment, partially because I don't fully understand the debate. Aircalibur wasn't used in an official translation? I could have sworn it was, and if so, obviously I'm going to keep it for the purposes of this patch. (Seriously, was it used in another game? I know I've seen it before...) If it wasn't used and I'm merely confused, I still don't necessarily think that Alacalibur is a more valid name just because it was found in the unused data, because, well, it was unused. (Plus, it sounds like Engrish.)

As for Idounn, I think 'demon dragon' is appropriate, but feel free to push for something else if you can justify it. Personally, I think that since she's the final boss, class inconsistencies can be excused in relation to other games. If she's the biggest, baddest dragon around, she can go by whatever floats her boat. XD

Also, I'm not against a bit of name changing. I just don't want to create an atmosphere in which that sort of thing is going to be prevalent.

Edit: Thanks, Bal! I was thinking of Excalibur. >o<

I did heard that FE4 Translation Team are using Celice's name as Serlis and Siglud as Sirgud.

Fun fact: I read an article today about someone named Sigurd. XD

Edited July 12, 2012 by Popo

[bookofholsety]

It was kinda just a reminder about the Aircublar did get named as Alacublar in the Sacred Stones and did use the Cheat Device, so we might use Alacublar in the patch just incase if anyone who does use it in the Sacred Stone and uses the cheat device to obtain the Aircublar (which its called Alacublar) and probably doesn't get confused with the Aircublar that are the same tome, sorry if I forgot to mentioned about this earlier.

a) Official website content ≠ unused game content. It's an alternative to consider, sure. It's just not a very good one, like a certain "Mamukoot" reference in FE7.

b) If people are digging around in FE8 to hack in Aircalibur, odds are they know exactly what they're doing and exactly what they're looking for; familiarity is a moot point anyway, since FE8's dummied Aircalibur uses a Killer Ballista icon, and it's a silly notion that the FE6 Aircalibur icon should be changed accordingly because of unused content. (to say nothing of all those spells called "Dummy"; should we go back and mod FE7 to rename all such items for consistency with FE8's unused content? the answer should be pretty obvious [hint: no])

(Seriously, was it used in another game? I know I've seen it before...)

Nope. Aircalibur appears only in FE6 (obviously not officially in English) and FE8 (unused). Could it be a matter of pattern familiarity with all the other "calibur" wind tomes in this series?

[Popo]

Nope. Aircalibur appears only in FE6 (obviously not officially in English) and FE8 (unused). Could it be a matter of pattern familiarity with all the other "calibur" wind tomes in this series?

Yup! I was just mistaken. >o<

[frat_tastic]

Could just name it "Wind" or "Elwind" if you want names of wind spells from localized games.

But those are kind of lame.

[Otherarrow]

As for this whole current naming mess, I will just say I'm just glad you are using Demon Dragon over the Dark Dragon that the old(er) translation patch used. I never got that. I'd be OK if Idenn being called a Demon Dragon over Mage Dragon because, well, that is what Jahn calls her in the translated 7.

Anyway, keep up the good work.

[Original Alear]

Ok, sorry about that, but I'm just going to leave this note that, I did heard that FE4 Translation Team are using Celice's name as Serlis and Siglud as Sirgud that was came from the History of Fire Emblem section on the official site and they are going to use those name for the Updated Version of the Patch and the FE2 Gaiden Fan Translation Patch did have Alm's name as Alm was also used in the History of Fire Emblem section on the official site as well and Cellica's name as Celica was usedin the History of Fire Emblem section on the official site and in the Super Smash Bros. Brawl track is in the patch as well.

Sirgud

SIR GOOD!

THOU THOU THOU

[Celice]

I still don't necessarily think that Alacalibur is a more valid name just because it was found in the unused data, because, well, it was unused. (Plus, it sounds like Engrish.)

It's not a matter of whether the final tome was used or not used--the localization team chose a name for it, giving it authority, in the eyes of some, over a fan interpretation.

[Popo]

It's not a matter of whether the final tome was used or not used--the localization team chose a name for it, giving it authority, in the eyes of some, over a fan interpretation.

How is an unused, unfinished piece of data more valid than the current translation? We have no way of knowing whether or not this was intended to be the final translation, if they were going to revisit the translation, change it, etc. If it isn't there in the finished copy, it isn't official in my book.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Popo

[Celice]

Because most translation groups dump large bats of text and just work at it, then reinsert it. Whether an item is used or unused isn't usually caught during a translation process; everything comes in and everything goes out. While the script is tested and revised in-game, contexts are usually altered (hopefully!); if an unused item isn't seen, that doesn't invalidate the translation. It was still combed over and accepted.

A few years of data mining experience and proofing is enough to say it's a better idea to take it than to refute it.

What's the current translation you're talking about?

Edited July 12, 2012 by Celice

[Popo]

Because most translation groups dump large bats of text and just work at it, then reinsert it. Whether an item is used or unused isn't usually caught during a translation process; everything comes in and everything goes out. While the script is tested and revised in-game, contexts are usually altered (hopefully!); if an unused item isn't seen, that doesn't invalidate the translation. It was still combed over and accepted.

A few years of data mining experience and proofing is enough to say it's a better idea to take it than to refute it.

What's the current translation you're talking about?

That's a good point. I didn't realize that the process worked that way so you may be right. I still feel that Aircalibur (the current translation that I'm referring to) is a better fit however. It saves editing time, is already accepted, and sounds better in my opinion. Unless I didn't read thoroughly enough, it was only referenced as something available by cheats in FE8, correct? If this is true, then I don't really see an issue with continuity if we left it as it is.

[fade5]

a) Official website content ≠ unused game content. It's an alternative to consider, sure. It's just not a very good one, like a certain "Mamukoot" reference in FE7.

This is a good parallel to the Aircalibur debate: it's a name that will never be seen without hacking or a cheat device. Actually, this is a good reason for keeping Mamkute in the translation: Mamukoot is a phonetic spelling of Mamkute.

I'd like to add that Alacalibur in FE8 isn't really "complete" anyway: it's got a Killer Ballista for an icon, and the Music cuts off when it's used.

I posted this with my earlier update, so I may as well ask again:

I'm thinking about asking for additional notes or feedback from the SA LP of Sword of Seals; Artix74 and Sydin could probably provide additional thoughts, so would anyone mind if I asked? More people's feedback=better translation. This might also be a good way to get opinions from people who aren't as familiar with the game as we are, and can provide more neutral feedback.

The thread's here: http://forums.someth...hreadid=3481288

Edited July 12, 2012 by fade5

[BBHood217]

"Eirukaribaa", huh? I say that settles that, it's definitely Aircalibur. If it were Alacalibur, wouldn't the katakana had been "Arakaribaa" or something?

...or are we all seriously gonna start calling the dragon people Mamucoots now?

[Celice]

Japanese words attempting to emulate a foreign language doesn't always procure a 1:1 equivalent. I've seen some Japanese texts try to recreate the loanword by how it's spelled, and others, by how a loanword sounds. We can at least infer a more likely 'Air' than 'Ala', but our inferences aren't all-knowing. As pointed out, 'Ala' can be a valid version of it.

[zahlman]

Igrene x Astol C:

At 46s: "and it left left a scar."

Also more "DASTARDS LOL" in the B support, might want to tweak that. Also "Slowly, his memory started returning started returning to him." Apparently Igrene stutters a lot.

Edited July 13, 2012 by zahlman

[Gaggle of Geese]

I think the katakana is a pretty strong case for keeping the name "Aircalibur."

At any rate, I also think that "Mamkute" should be changed to "Manakete" simply due to official stuff, but that's just me.

[CT075]

'eirucariba' sounds nothing like one would think 'alacalibur' sounds though ;\

[fade5]

Well, since no one objected, I'm going to mention this project to the Sword of Seals LP.

Also, I've finished my Normal mode playthrough, and I'm starting Hard Mode. It's... hard. I can finally see why Marcus is considered good in Hard Mode.

Update soon.