Recreating FE9/FE10 as a GBA game

[Elieson]

I was talking it over with a friend, and he thought that if it was possible to recreate the game for you know, GBA purposes.

I don't know how 3rd tier, ledge climbing/ledge battle, and the constant switching of teams would be manageable. I'd take this up as a personal project (or team project), but I severely lack experience and the insight to handle the above, among other expected problems. (Disarm, weapon forges, etc).

My question to you is, should I consider taking this up? Am I the first to consider this? Is it pointless? Would anyone even play it? Would anyone be willing to help guide me through this arduous task, or join me in completing it?

And I apologize if this belongs in ROM hacking

Edited March 28, 2012 by Elieson

[Arch]

There are so many complex things to recreate, it would certainly be a Herculean task for even the most skilled of GBA ROM hackers.

I'd be on the side of saying a "demake" is not really necessary. The games are fine on their respective platforms, and any sort of "demake" would very likely be a severely gutted version of the original game. I doubt that I, personally, would even play the games, and I think it'd be hard to recruit the talent you need to pull off anything decent. I'd say that you should focus your talents on other ideas, if you'd like to get into the ROM hacking business (and hey, we're always happy to have new faces there!).

Edited March 28, 2012 by Arch

[Helios]

It would take a lot of ASM hacking, which we're all still trying to understand to this day. It would be much easier to do it on a different program, similar to what BwdYeti and Co. are doing with their game, Immortal Sword. I guess it would be kinda cool though dolphin takes up a lot of RAM when I use it on my laptop.

[Excellen Browning]

FE9 should be possible and not too difficult if BEXP is left out, the support system is kept the way it is etc. FE10 would be a lot more difficult if only for the constantly shifting lord statuses.

[Wooster]

3-13 Defend the line!

[Elieson]

All great input, yes.

This does sound massive though...more massive then I originally thought.

[Celice]

If you're going to recreate elements specifically, then sure, you could say it might be difficult, but there is no requirement for doing so. Obviously this isn't the first time an idea like this has come up--but that doesn't mean you couldn't start working on the project anyways. You're talking about "recreating." So do so. You're not obliged to port anything. If anything, how boring would it be if you played the same exact game and system on the GBA--at least make a difference in the experience. Otherwise, we could all just play the original.

You shouldn't do something for other people. You should do something like this because you want to do it.

the support system is kept the way it is etc. FE10 would be a lot more difficult if only for the constantly shifting lord statuses.

They don't have to be Lords. You can just assign a should-not-die flag to your leading unit of choice, which will stream a game-over should they... you know, die. ROMhacking is not about complicating things, but about manipulating aspects into new experiences.

EDIT: If you're hell-bent on retaining the ledge bonuses, you could also opt for a custom tile which will give a bonus, but that would allow every character to have that bonus,regardless of their position of height or not (at the same level or at a different level). Now, you could always justify this as being near a ledge will always give you an advantage, both because of the height, but also because you can leap down and avoid a blow.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Celice

[Elieson]

If you're going to recreate elements specifically, then sure, you could say it might be difficult, but there is no requirement for doing so. Obviously this isn't the first time an idea like this has come up--but that doesn't mean you couldn't start working on the project anyways. You're talking about "recreating." So do so. You're not obliged to port anything. If anything, how boring would it be if you played the same exact game and system on the GBA--at least make a difference in the experience. Otherwise, we could all just play the original.

You shouldn't do something for other people. You should do something like this because you want to do it.

They don't have to be Lords. You can just assign a should-not-die flag to your leading unit of choice, which will stream a game-over should they... you know, die. ROMhacking is not about complicating things, but about manipulating aspects into new experiences.

EDIT: If you're hell-bent on retaining the ledge bonuses, you could also opt for a custom tile which will give a bonus, but that would allow every character to have that bonus,regardless of their position of height or not (at the same level or at a different level). Now, you could always justify this as being near a ledge will always give you an advantage, both because of the height, but also because you can leap down and avoid a blow.

Serious positive input! Ok then, ideas.

Defend the line; could I just set multiple tiles with an alternative nonbonus throne status, and just pile then into an area, noting them as many many thrones to "protect"?

How would tiles with bonuses be applied to only one direction, to simulate height, but not other directions? I have a vague idea, but I'm not experienced enough to say for sure.

Key survival flags, I actually thought that's what they were. Assigned to lords constantly, and others periodically (like say, Sothe). I never associated them with forced deployment, but I think they would work as both forced deployment and do not die statuses.

Also, base meetings. I already have a plan for that. Separate Gaiden chapters with a quick sieze point at a "base camp map", where only ike can be deployed, and he can visit villages to engage in prebattle conversations, then sieze the map to enter the main prep screen.

[charlie_]

I think the biggest issue would be Laguz. Unless you have them all in Wildheart form, then I don't know what you can do about them. Aside from that, I think everything FE9 needs is doable. You'd be missing out on BEXP, Bands, Skills and few other things, but the core gameplay would still be present.

[Elieson]

Fe8 did skills though, right? Why can't fe9/fe10 under the same principals?

And laguz would have to be treated as Manakete, though transformations, you have a point...

[Junkhead]

FE10 would be a lot more difficult if only for the constantly shifting lord statuses.

Not at all. Even I can do it.

[shadowofchaos]

I honestly feel like remaking FE9 with FE10's engine would be a lot more worthy of the time...

FE9's animations seemed lacking polish... while FE10's story confused the hell out of me the first time.

Why not combine best elements of both? I mean FE10's gameplay was glorious... the character art is already there for the most part...

Things to worry about would be the maps... Lord Ike and Ashnard Model... and first tier versions of PoR characters not present in FE10's part 1.

[Celice]

Fe8 did skills though, right? Why can't fe9/fe10 under the same principals?

And laguz would have to be treated as Manakete, though transformations, you have a point...

Just make them like Mamkutes. Perfectly workable.

[Elieson]

I honestly feel like remaking FE9 with FE10's engine would be a lot more worthy of the time...

FE9's animations seemed lacking polish... while FE10's story confused the hell out of me the first time.

Why not combine best elements of both? I mean FE10's gameplay was glorious... the character art is already there for the most part...

Things to worry about would be the maps... Lord Ike and Ashnard Model... and first tier versions of PoR characters not present in FE10's part 1.

Unfortunately, I know little of 3d animation, and don't have a computer that can support it. That, and I didn't know you could edit the Wii/GC versions.

I imagine that laguz could self inflict a status on themselves, "tiger formshift" or "cat-formshift" by using an unlimited-use item, classified as a PREF Staff specifically equippable by the cooresponding Laguz type, which engages the type-based transformation, and could affect stats.

Celice, what do you think? Is that possible?

[charlie_]

I mean the skills you learn through scrolls, such as Vantage, Resolve, etc. Rather than the Mastery skills, which I guess could just be applied to classes. Maybe you could get by some (a custom class for Tormod with +2 Mov from Celerity) but most would be a pain to deal with, maybe Wrath could be compensated for by +15% crit on the character and class, but I don't know. And about Laguz, I was talking about transforming. I think the only way without ASM could be putting them in Wildheart state. There's also shove/smite, and Str/Magic split. I know that Nintenlord made an AS patch to make Strength count for speed loss from weapons over con, but there are a lot of things to consider. I'm not telling you not to go for it, I'm just saying even with FE9 you would have a taxing time implementing all of it.

[Excellen Browning]

They don't have to be Lords. You can just assign a should-not-die flag to your leading unit of choice, which will stream a game-over should they... you know, die. ROMhacking is not about complicating things, but about manipulating aspects into new experiences.

Remember that one chapter where Geoffrey has to seize?

[Celice]

What about it? If he's essential in that game, you can make him essential here too probably. Or just don't. If it's about seizing, we can change the goal of the chapter to defeat a specific enemy on that spot. One need not chisel out a stone image of their intended goal, if they can get the same feeling across in a slightly different manner--at all the easier expense.

I imagine that laguz could self inflict a status on themselves, "tiger formshift" or "cat-formshift" by using an unlimited-use item, classified as a PREF Staff specifically equippable by the cooresponding Laguz type, which engages the type-based transformation, and could affect stats.

Celice, what do you think? Is that possible?

Are there any pref items that are attached to a class? I know there seems to be items which are locked to class (claws; stones) but I don't know if they're locked as a pref or locked in some other manner. Can't locks operate on a class-by-class standard? That works for what you want then.

But I don't know of any item which shifts your class into a new one, and augments stats, for a few turns. Again I'd personally suggest just using the mamkute-stone route. Especially as you can just set the "stone" to infinite uses if you want, and even give it the icon of a claw, or jaws or whatever you want.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Celice

[shadowofchaos]

Remember that one chapter where Geoffrey has to seize?

Do the same thing for FE8 if that's your game of choice.

Edited March 28, 2012 by shadowofchaos

[Elieson]

What about it? If he's essential in that game, you can make him essential here too probably. Or just don't. If it's about seizing, we can change the goal of the chapter to defeat a specific enemy on that spot. One need not chisel out a stone image of their intended goal, if they can get the same feeling across in a slightly different manner--at all the easier...

Agreed.

Are there any pref items that are attached to a class? I know there seems to be items which are locked to class (claws; stones) but I don't know if they're locked as a pref or locked in some other manner. Can't locks operate on a class-by-class standard? That works for what you want then.

lockpicks come to mind, but they are items, not weaponry. Promotional items too, and dancey rings from 7. Not sure if they could be bent to fit the role of equipment.

Also, iron rune/delphi shield change things up a bit by negating crits...somehow, and removing weaknesses. Could they be alerted to bestow stats simply by being held?

But I don't know of any item which shifts your class into a new one, and augments stats, for a few turns. Again I'd personally suggest just using the mamkute-stone route. Especially as you can just set the "stone" to infinite uses if you want, and even give it the icon of a claw, or jaws or whatever you want.

That is a solution too.

[Into Oblivion]

I've been reading, and I'd say this is a great idea if you could pull it off. I've sometimes wondered what it'd be like to have the 3D Fire Emblems in 2D, even though I really like the animation.

This is gonna be a dumb question, and I know it so no one has to bring it up, what do you suppose you'll do for the cutscenes? I mean I'm sure it'll be easy to do, but still, I do wonder how you'll do some of them, like the FE10 ones?

[Celice]

We can snapshot images from them, and show them as cutscene images with some narration--for the scenes which are very important to see visually. Most of the war scenes or other blocking-based movements can be done with events in the in-game engine.

Also, the FE_Girls hack has a couple levels from FE9 recreated if you were interested in seeing how they went about it. One of the mapping competitions a little while back involved members recreating a map from FE9 too, with 2D-based tiles.

[Elieson]

We can snapshot images from them, and show them as cutscene images with some narration--for the scenes which are very important to see visually. Most of the war scenes or other blocking-based movements can be done with events in the in-game engine.

Also, the FE_Girls hack has a couple levels from FE9 recreated if you were interested in seeing how they went about it. One of the mapping competitions a little while back involved members recreating a map from FE9 too, with 2D-based tiles.

Thanks! I'll check that out tonight & recon it~

And, you beat me to the answer I was gona give as an educated guess. Thank you very much!

I was gonna ask, I've never noticed, but if a unit dies, do their supports vanish? That may be a link to creating changable.support options

[Into Oblivion]

Good answers(s).

I wish you the best of luck on this project. I had my own FE project, nothing like on this level, but it ended up going down before it even began. I hope the same doesn't happen in your case.

[Elieson]

I hope so too. I honestly just have little coding experience, but I plan on making this work, mainly because remaking the game like this would give so many more access to it, and it would allow those who want to try balancing patches and such a realistic base to do it from.

That, and I think it will be fun!

Edited March 28, 2012 by Elieson

[Loki Laufeyson]

Also, base meetings. I already have a plan for that. Separate Gaiden chapters with a quick sieze point at a "base camp map", where only ike can be deployed, and he can visit villages to engage in prebattle conversations, then sieze the map to enter the main prep screen.

Urhm...Is there a way to make it more like a menu? Kinda like FE6's prep screen thing? Cuz that idea sounds really awkward and kinda cumbersome. I know i know fuck all about any of this crap but yeah.