Shinori Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 We haven't talked about much in OC actually. Sorry let me read I've been busy, just reading and not had much time to post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Also, Aere: Have you been neighbours the whole game or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 We have been neighbors all game, and our pm is a whole of two pages large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 mmkay that rules out neighbourizer nothing else though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Paper looks slightly scummy, but it's probably just me over-analyzing things. I'll switch last minute to avoid a random lynch, but... wbu? I don't know i wish blitz would get on to post. But he's on the other side of the world. Should be getting on soon i think? Same for clipsey who lives in hawaii Back up that I'm town. I am, by the way, but we have to lynch Manix tonight or we all lose. Hell, we may lose anyway, but I'd rather go down knowing I was wrong than go down because I didn't do what I thought was right. So, you can claim town neighbor, too. Just say that we known each other's roles/alignments, doesn't really matter now. Are you feeling that he is more mafia than ether or eclipse or elieson? Because we do have to be careful about the lynch, I think he is certainly scummy as well but we have to be extremely careful, we are at mylo i believe. If we get it wrong we lose unless we have a mayor or some sort. Elie and Ether haven't posted like, at all. Elie and clipsey are giving me town vibes, but... idk. I feel Ether/Manix are scumbuddies because Ether jumped on the wagon so fast. I agree, let's wait and see what else happens. I really think they are waiting for eclipse to their story and maybe help them out. That's the gist and more important parts of the pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 So many questions Not enough straight answers. All the deception is present right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 We'll find out soon enough! I think it's possible for the neighbors to be on opposing sides, but I really, REALLY want to see what Shinori flips first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 That was the possibility I was thinking about as well, but I wanted to look into it more before I posted it. Anyway, Eclipse has the gist of it. We have Aere and Shinori claiming neighbors, whilst we have Elieson claiming doctor, and Rapier as confirmed Town RB. We have two possibilities for N1. Either Shinori was performing the mafia kill, and was roleblocked, or the mafia targeted me, and I was protected by Elie. Now, Elie's claim was at a weird time, but to be fair, he hadn't really been pushed much beforehand. Now, the possibility of an Elie fakeclaim. If Elie isn't the doctor, it means we don't have one, and that means Shinori is scum. If Elie is the doctor, we have a 50/50 shot of Shinori being scum. Everything points to Shinori being one half of the scumteam, with the most likely candidates for his partner being Aere and Elie. Elie claiming doc allows a possibility for Shinori to not be scum, which would be a decent claim at this point. Mafia only needs this last mislynch. The one thing that confuses me is that I thought neighbors worked like masons, in which all members were guaranteed town to the other members. Was I incorrect in that regard(allowing a possibility of 1 scum/1 town neighbors)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Not always the case. There are ways to make PR's like mine useless, and will make town think I'm scummy, and get an easy mislynch, saving them the bother of having to kill me. Given my track record this game, I suspect that's exactly what they're going for. In a game like this the mafia would eaisly prefer to target manix after claiming watcher/rolecop if he is actually cop because with him openly claimed doc would most likely target him that night and without knowing who the doc is they wouldn't be able to kill him. I doubt that they have a Tailor, because they shouldn't keep blocking me like that. I agree with this comment, I highly doubt tailor in this game just as i doubt safeguard. Especially with how many vanilla townie's we supposedly have. Actually, I want to bring up the possibility of opposite aligned neighbours again. It was kinda skimmed over and assumed they would be the same alignment. This is actually quite possible, but i haven't mentioned this because i didn't want to get attention from mafia if Aere was mafia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Okay, ninjad by a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 @Ether: I was told i don't know anything about Aere's alignment or role. Just that im his neighbor and can talk to him outside of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 The one thing that confuses me is that I thought neighbors worked like masons, in which all members were guaranteed town to the other members. Was I incorrect in that regard(allowing a possibility of 1 scum/1 town neighbors)? Neighbours work similar to Masons, but neighbours are not told that the others are town. It's a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 oh, ninjas absolutely everywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 Votal Time !! eclipse (1) - Shinori Manix (1) - Aere Shinori (1) - eclipse Not Voting: Aere, Ether, Manix With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. You have about 15 hours left in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Ok, I used the Multiquote feature and powerread through 3 pages for all the quality posts I could find. Never used Multiquote before. It's weird. Anyway, here's my thoughts on the situation. Not always the case. There are ways to make PR's like mine useless, and will make town think I'm scummy, and get an easy mislynch, saving them the bother of having to kill me. Given my track record this game, I suspect that's exactly what they're going for. You and I were in the same boat, only you claimed Watcher first, and got blocked, then you claimed Rolecop, and got blocked. Helios didn't claim early, for what I can assume are obvious reasons. Either way, those are both PRs that could easily be eliminated. If Helios had claimed Doc any earlier, it'd be a tossup between which one of us scum would Roleblock and which one of us scum would kill, knocking out the two biggest opposing powers in the game. They could hold one of us up, while eliminating any other potential PRs or threats. Actually, I want to bring up the possibility of opposite aligned neighbours again. It was kinda skimmed over and assumed they would be the same alignment. I'm getting a feeling they actually are opposite alignments, given what I see in the voting trends. One of the possibilities makes a very strong implication that the mafia didn't kill night 1. Discuss the possibility of opposite aligned neighbours, please. If Masons are same-aligned, then I'd assume that Neighbors can be opposite-aligned. I've been crash-coursing through the rules, and haven't spotted anything that says they have to be. It seems odd that they would be opposite aligned, but I guess that's what highlights the difference between Masons and Neighbors (Well, that and the Mason's other ability, which seems optional, not mandatory). I still don't understand what a Neighborizer is though. I wouldn't doubt there's a second mafia PR. However, I think that your logic needs some tweaking. First off, consider two groups. One is Shinori/Aere, who are claiming OC. The other is Elieson/someone else, due to that doc claim. When Elieson was Helios, he accrued a really early wagon on him - Rapier, Paperblade, Manix, and Blitz. Three of these have since flipped town, and I'm pretty sure the fourth one is town. Later came the Blitz fiasco - that was Ether, Helios, Rapier, and Aere. We know that Rapier's scumhunting was terrible, since he was on two wagons. What I can't decide is whether or not Ether/Helios is believable town (especially after the timing of that doctor claim, and who the doc protected N1)--wait. If Elieson isn't the doctor, then that would mean that Rapier stopped the N1 kill. If there is a doctor, then it's a very slight possibility that the neighbors are one scum and one town, in which case we should be yelling at the mafia for targeting Ether of all people. I can't come up with a good scenario for the lack of a N1 kill without a doctor, given that we know who Rapier targeted. Unless I see something extremely convincing, my vote stays put. The rest of you, read, respond, talk, and think about how N1 could've happened, given that we know who the town hooker is. I will be most unhappy if I don't see more speculation regarding that, as it's an anomaly worth talking about. I'm leaning on the line of Shinori and Aere, since they are claiming neighbors. It could be that they are opposite aligned neighbors, but it also could be a convenient claim to keep one of them safe or confuse us. Manix isn't out of my question in my mind, because he's fakeclaimed as roles that would bring information, and brought nothing to the table. It seemed like a better short term plan for him. And this neighbors claim seems like a short term plan for them. I can't answer anything else about Night1 though. All I know is that Ether was my (well, Helios' target), but I don't even know why. I've reread, and he hasn't done anything really to move outside of neutrality. Even up until now, he seems decidedly neutral, which is weird. That was the possibility I was thinking about as well, but I wanted to look into it more before I posted it. Anyway, Eclipse has the gist of it. We have Aere and Shinori claiming neighbors, whilst we have Elieson claiming doctor, and Rapier as confirmed Town RB. We have two possibilities for N1. Either Shinori was performing the mafia kill, and was roleblocked, or the mafia targeted me, and I was protected by Elie. Now, Elie's claim was at a weird time, but to be fair, he hadn't really been pushed much beforehand. Now, the possibility of an Elie fakeclaim. If Elie isn't the doctor, it means we don't have one, and that means Shinori is scum. If Elie is the doctor, we have a 50/50 shot of Shinori being scum. Everything points to Shinori being one half of the scumteam, with the most likely candidates for his partner being Aere and Elie. Elie claiming doc allows a possibility for Shinori to not be scum, which would be a decent claim at this point. Mafia only needs this last mislynch. The one thing that confuses me is that I thought neighbors worked like masons, in which all members were guaranteed town to the other members. Was I incorrect in that regard(allowing a possibility of 1 scum/1 town neighbors)? Don't forget, we have Manix claiming Rolecop, too. And also two more Vanilla claims. The only thing I can suspect that happened is that Rapier roleblocked the mafia kill on Ether. Assuming everyone has claimed truthfully at this point, then that's the only possibility. Because my (Helios') action on N1 wasn't blocked. And yes Ether, as I said above, when I jumped in, Helios hadn't claimed Doc, and I didn't see the point, being as I wasn't being pressured into it with a L-2 or L-1. We can't ignore the possibility of any current fakeclaims at this point. If we get one more mislynch, it's game over, and I don't want to lose this because of backandforths. No one is in the clear, because of the possibility of fakeclaiming, but I still have my suspicions. My suspicions at scumbuddies point to Aere/Shinori, or Aere/Manix, or Manix/Shinori. The claims are just too suspicious. Aere and Shinori having a clean excuse for constant communication, and Manix for having excuses for not really having done anything.The possibility of opposite-aligned neighbors could exist, but that's starting up an entirely different debate that we don't have time for, and won't be able to figure out because they're both gonna pull for town anyway. I let Eclipse startle me when she hit me asking why I'd lynch our only cop. If we lynch scum and make it through to the night, then I know I'd protect our only cop. But I don't know if he's the cop, because since he's brought nothing out, there is no proof that he's not fakeclaiming again, and I've been suspicious of him all game. (Now, to post in the other 2 Mafia threads that I'm involved in) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Elie, if this game had no other claimed cop, I'd call it a troll game and end the day. Having no info as a hooker (Rapier) is damn frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Hence why I didn't go back and vote for Manix. It's just a risk that I'm keeping in the back of my head (along with all the other risks). Are there many other games with around half of the players as Vanilla roles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Also, assuming that Aere/Shinori are neighbors, and Ether/Eclipse are Vanilla, then Manix's next investigation can't fail. That's assuming that this fakeclaim shit is finished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Hence why I didn't go back and vote for Manix. It's just a risk that I'm keeping in the back of my head (along with all the other risks). Are there many other games with around half of the players as Vanilla roles? It's not frequent here, although we have had a few recently. In other places, vanilla is used quite a bit, iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 12.5 hours. Remember, No Majority means Random Lynch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Also, assuming that Aere/Shinori are neighbors, and Ether/Eclipse are Vanilla, then Manix's next investigation can't fail. That's assuming that this fakeclaim shit is finished Assuming we lynch properly, yes. Problem: We have to lynch properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 The other option is to NL, and wait for Eli to claim hooked and Manix to die. Which I'm not too keen on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 The other option is to NL, and wait for Eli to claim hooked and Manix to die. Which I'm not too keen on. It wouldn't clear anyone at all. The reverse is also possible, me being hooked and Eli dying. Same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 The only way either of us could be hooked is if there's another fakeclaimer out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 If we NL, yes. But, someone has to be fakeclaiming, because otherwise I wouldn't be hooked two consecutive nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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