I Can't Believe It's Still Not SFMM2 Minimafia - Randomlynch Wins

[Grace]

itt Ether blows a gasket and proves he still sucks at mafia

itt Manix fails at mafia full stop in every regard

[Prims]

Also, I can probably cover the set-up part of postgame right now.

Town:

1x Roleblocker

1x Rolecop (can't differentiate between vanilla and goon)

1x Neighbor

4x Vanilla Townie

Mafia:

1x Jailkeeper

1x Neighbor

N1 Actions:

Shinori - Kill Ether - blocked!

Helios - Block Manix

Rapier - Block Shinori

Manix - Scan Paperblade - blocked!

N2 Actions:

Shinori - Kill Paperblade

Elieson - Block Manix

Manix - Scan eclipse - blocked!

N3 Actions:

Shinori - Kill eclipse

Manix - Scan Shinori (Result: Neighbor)

Concept behind the set-up was pretty obvious. Town got a roleblocker which was very powerful in 9p if played right ("played right" meaning the blocker actually claims his block after a No Kill, that was some damn viable information), and a free pseudoclear on the Town Neighbor if the Mafia Neighbor was lynched. On the other hand, the Rolecop would most likely be led to believe the Roleblocker was scum and that the Jailkeeper was town, and it was unlikely to catch the Mafia Neighbor in a lie since Neighbor was an easy and truthful claim. Unless the Jailkeeper fakeclaimed something else, its only real use would be for clearing people as "not the Mafia roleblocker" if a block had been reported.

Despite the misleading Rolecop, I think it overall might have been townsided due to the potential for the blocker and neighbor to cause clears in conjunction with each other, leading to the possibility of scum losing to collusive lockdown. This would only really be noticable if scum ended up suffering from an early loss of one of its players, though.

I intend to re-read the game and post player comments after school tomorrow. Sorry for adding to the trainwreck at the end with the miscount, even though it likely wouldn't have made much of a difference.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Prims

[Paperblade]

Mising the eziest victory of all time (actually there was about a 50% chance that we randlynched mafia between D1 and D3 so I guess it wasn't that lucky, just never do that again)

also

Prims says:

you should

post postgame thoughts on everyone for me

Blitz: You are the best, and everyone who voted you is dumb.

Rapier: Make less assumptions, especially dumb ones. I was wrong for suspecting you because of your logic being shitty (and was pretty conflicted about it as you can see by the switch to Shinori) since logic tells aren't, but it would have never happened if you hadn't been all over the place. I wasn't sure if your assumptions and remarks like "If you're town we lynch myself and Manix" were legit or scum trying to get mislynches. Also yeah you should have outed immediately and been on Shinori like white on rice.

Manix: I suggest rereading more. Blitz, myself, and eclipse all thought Shinori was mafia. Crazy conspiracy theories like "what if the mafia nokilled" are pretty much never right. There's no reason to no kill on the off chance that you frame someone town. The mafia had no way of knowing there was a town hooker and hoping to make one of them look clear based on a Doctor protecting them was even less likely. I think the only time I have seen the mafia considering a no kill on SF was Proto in Pokemon TCG (although personally I would always nokill at Mylo unless there was an obvious clear and killing him would not get me caught via Watcher or w/e BUT I NEVER LIVE THAT LONG)

Helios: You were active lurking pretty hard on D1 upon reread. I don't really have anything to say about Elieson since he subbed in super late.

eclipse: I actually thought you were mafia during D1 because of your comments on the argument between me and Manix but after rereading it I went back on that, and I thought you were most town after Blitz during D2 even despite CRIPPLING INACTIVITY

Ether: Be more active I guess? I saw you looking at the thread a lot without posting (although half the time I commented on it you ninja'd me). I thought you were the Doctor at some point during D2 but I don't remember why

Aere: Be more active too. You were pretty much entirely forgettable fmpov although I didn't really like how you were kind of sheeping Shinori during D3. I don't play enough with lovers/twins/neighbors/masons to know about things but if the host refused to confirm the townliness of my buddy I would probably assume he was evil.

Shinori: idr what you did that made me suspicious of you, I think like Helios you just made a lot of empty posts. Also your OMGUS on eclipse was terrible and you should have been lynched on the spot. Also also your post asking to wait for a Manix result on the last day was pretty bad. From your pov you knew your own role and Aere's, so if you trusted Manix's results (which you claimed you did) it wouldn't matter what he got since you had a mafia and town voting you, so unvoting was pointless since Manix would have to be pretty dumb to vote someone he thought was town. The post just seemed ill thought out and kind of said "Hi I'm scum grasping for straws" but I was informed since I died so maybe I was biased at the time.

Prims: Manix's role was a bastard move you jerk. Ether agrees

[00:08] <Ether> If Shinori hadn't been blocked N1 I would say that Manix was mafia

[00:08] <Ether> Since a rolecop is useless in a setup where any role can be town or mafia

Paperblade: a stupid noob

Edited May 25, 2012 by Paperblade

[Prims]

Yeah, the rolecop was probably kind of a dick move. I didn't really consider the JK / RB ordeal much worse than a Godfather / Miller pair but it honestly ended up being useless, more than I intended it to be.

Rolecop is fine in varied set-ups as a fakeclaim buster though imo.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Prims

[Grace]

Manix: I suggest rereading more. Blitz, myself, and eclipse all thought Shinori was mafia. Crazy conspiracy theories like "what if the mafia nokilled" are pretty much never right. There's no reason to no kill on the off chance that you frame someone town. The mafia had no way of knowing there was a town hooker and hoping to make one of them look clear based on a Doctor protecting them was even less likely. I think the only time I have seen the mafia considering a no kill on SF was Proto in Pokemon TCG (although personally I would always nokill at Mylo unless there was an obvious clear and killing him would not get me caught via Watcher or w/e BUT I NEVER LIVE THAT LONG)

I started re-reading a bit more at D3, but by then it was probably too late.

Yeah, I really don't know what I was thinking this game, especially with the NK idea. In hindsight, it was so unlikely, and I think I was trying to justify absolutely everything with certainty, which clearly can't be done in mafia. I don't know why I thought that I had to make sure of everything, because it hasn't stopped me before.

I think I just had too much pressure placed on me this game. I can learn from this, I would think.

[Prims]

title updated for accuracy

[Paperblade]

actually I was specifically referring to the last day where you suddenly thought Ether was scum

Then again I subscribe to the Occam's Razor theory and try to disregard my paranoia

[Prims]

General good point to remember: scum will avoid making gambits that are more likely to backfire on them than help them. No Killing in a game where there's no indication of a roleblocker or doctor fits into this category.

This is to an extent reliant on the players, but typically remains true no matter what the scumteam is.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Prims

[Grace]

I don't think it helped that Ether wasn't around that much.

But seriously, I sucked pretty hard this game.

Couldn't get any reads right (see pretty much everyone)

Fakeclaimed badly (and after asking, I shouldn't have at all)

And a plethora of other issues.

ugh

Edited May 25, 2012 by Manix

[Prims]

Think of it as a learning experience :T

[Grace]

Yeah, definitely.

[Ether]

Again, I'm fairly guilty of not saying anything when I have nothing new to add. It's a pretty bad trap because I come into the thread, see that X has already been addressed, and just don't say anything about it, since, well, the angle I would have brought up is already on the table. I know it's a shitty habit, but I just can't come up with anything meaningful to say.

[eclipse]

Thanks a bunch for not reading my final post, Manix. I did that in case I died.

TO EVERYONE ELSE: Ugh. The reason why I went AWOL on D2 was because I had a funeral to go to; one that required air travel. I was sick as hell when I got back.

[Elieson]

I just cried at Prims post lynching Shinori improperly.

Reading postgame to see how everything went, right now~

[Elieson]

And paper, I came in on D2, made it to D4. Didn't realize I missed that much by missing D1/N1, and being present for D2/N2/D3/N3/D4.

:D

[Elieson]

Again, I'm fairly guilty of not saying anything when I have nothing new to add. It's a pretty bad trap because I come into the thread, see that X has already been addressed, and just don't say anything about it, since, well, the angle I would have brought up is already on the table. I know it's a shitty habit, but I just can't come up with anything meaningful to say.

If I had to sum up my mind for the entire game, it'd be right here. I dunno what kept me out of the radar in D2, but I'm happy at whatever it was. I was considering claiming something a bit earlier (Eclipse, thanks for the Doctor inspiration btw~), but I didn't know what else to claim besides Safeguard, which seemed too convienent. I could've claimed Jailor, and agreed with Paper, but then I thought that would've made everyone jump on me for posting something that Paper had thought, and he was a forerunner in discussion here.

Believe it or not, I was about 10 seconds away from voting for Shinori before the Randolynch. PRIMS DID NOT POST A SINGLE WARNING TIMER AFTER HIS 12.5 HOUR TIME LIMIT, so I didn't realize that I was completely out of time. Shinori and I kinda were planning on the hopes that a Randolynch would target the 2/3 of the town players, but we came up with something last second...too last second. I had a convoluted (and probably fail-worthy) plan, assuming that Shinori had been lynched, and Manix had not investigated me, but I probably would've bunked it up, just due to my lack of inexperience.

I enjoyed this game, but it was a pain subbing in and not knowing what Helios was thinking. It seemed rather silly in this game that Ether and I were about equal in actual posting (just because I didn't know what to do when I jumped in), and that it seemed even more silly to me at Manix's fakeclaim. I saw the post come up, and was like "Hell, if I was town, I would've been even more suspicious!" I guess I'm just a paranoid guy who trusts no one and nothing, for absolutely no reason though. Other than my lack of experience that is.

I enjoyed this, even though I didn't put in nearly as much input into the game as I would've like to. I tried to pull a powerful fakeclaim, and to my surprise, it went off rather accepted because of simple skepticism than anything else. I'd really like to do a smaller size game like this again, just next time, from start to finish.

Postgame Participant Analysis:

Blitz: Wat? I jumped in before actually playing with you. You seemed like the player with the best built in scumdar though...I just never got to see it in action.

Shinori: You took my bad logic that I was afraid of posting, and actually posted it. It set you up for so much. But you and I tried to piece something together, and you just struggled so hard to clear yourself.

Eclipse:

Elie, if this game had no other claimed cop, I'd call it a troll game and end the day. Having no info as a hooker (Rapier) is damn frustrating.

This made me laugh, because it convinced me that you were in fact the actual Doctor that I was claiming to be, and you had just tried to catch me in some sort of trap. Great debate all game, IMO, and from the time I jumped in, you pushed me the most to think and come up with useful posts. Not that I came up with that many, but you did your effort in doing so.

Manix: Holy Fuck. Fakeclaimed, and you lost me like 50 times in your post after post after post of little bits if information that were strung together with dental floss. I figured that you were gonna honestly gonna get lynched, but you kept going as the town's only claimed cop (even though you had nothing to bring to the table, like....ever, other than a claimed target). I enjoyed your debates a hellalot, but man you were all over the place.

Rapier: You had the logic that I feared I was going to be stuck presenting had I opened my mouth and posted anything ever. Unfortunately, it bit you in the ass. I wish I could offer some advice...but look at who it'd be coming from :D

Paperblade: You're the most intimidating player in this game, but you had so many posts of things like "You're an idiot", that I didn't know if other players were really able to trust you or not. I like your playstyle, because it's tough and something that I probably can't ever emulate, but it's really effective in putting on pressure, especially for a good argument. I think you just post like that to get people thinking and to come up with a genuinely good reason to back up their voting habits.

Ether: You were about as mysterious as it came. See the quoted post I posted at the top, because those are pretty much the exact words I would use to describe how I thought you did (until endgame that is).

Aere:

If town is going to lose anyway, why do you care if you die?

This. Made me lol. Harder than anything else in the game. Mixed on and off debate made me think that you did a good townie job of being town. I'd say more, but i'm tired of typing, sorry~

MVP Gamebreaking Post

Holy SHIT the RNG gives you people too much grace.

Elieson, the Mafia Jailkeeper, has been randomlynched.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Elieson

[Prims]

PRIMS DID NOT POST A SINGLE WARNING TIMER AFTER HIS 12.5 HOUR TIME LIMIT

yeah, sorry about that. i forgot to set my alarm and ended up sleeping in that day

[Shinori]

This was a weird surprise. And yeah with how manix ended up returning the info i most likely would have had nothing.

My goal was to see if he would slip up and claim i was guilty when he only claimed rolecop.

[Shinori]

Either way it was a fun game. And hopefully I'll get to learn more from this.

[eclipse]

Shinori: Don't immediately jump out and OMGUS the first person that doesn't like you. If you see three votes, especially in a game where the town can't talk, self-hammer, and keep discussion at a minimum.

[Elieson]

Shinori: Don't immediately jump out and OMGUS the first person that doesn't like you. If you see three votes, especially in a game where the town can't talk, self-hammer, and keep discussion at a minimum.

What good does a selfhammer do? If anything, to me it looks like you're giving up the white flag.

[eclipse]

We can't discuss the game at night, so self-hammer limits discussion of that day phase. Furthermore, it wouldn't have allowed that final logic dump I did. It seems that no one read it, though.

[Elieson]

I read it. I was just too dead to say anything about it :O

[Elieson]

Eclipse. I envy your ability to just pull out information and list it in such an objective way. How do you do it?

I'm trying to read everything, and more often than not, I just get overwhelmed by the information, and can't tell if I should post something unique to sound unique, or if I should join the wagon, but not sheep. I can't quit etell that yet...is there some sort of approach that you have?

[eclipse]

Speak your mind. You'll get better as you go along. It doesn't help that you started as mafia; I feel that people need to be town at least once before being mafia. Use logic to determine what happened. Here's an example from this game:

- Helios had an early wagon on him, but three of the people who voted him died early, and the fourth was most likely town. This did not bode well for your alignment.

- Blitz garnered a wagon, and the only person whose alignment I was certain about was Rapier.

- On N1, no one died.

- On D2, Rapier said he was a hooker, and that he'd targeted Shinori.

- Therefore, either Rapier stopped the kill or a theoretical doctor did. Since I wasn't sure if there was one, I played out all possible scenarios on D3, and came to the conclusion that the odds of Shinori being mafia were extremely high. Then, I constructed other scenarios, based off of what was public knowledge. Thus, the post dump before phase end.

- As mafia, you'll want to actively discuss things, but not so much where you exclude others. It's a fine balance.