New DLC content revealed for May 24th, 2012

[Othin]

Long shot but she could be an assassin (swords and bows, avoids duplicates) but with a skill similar to Micaiah's that allows her to use the myrm/SM swords in any sword wielding class. But to be honest I don't think those class restricted swords (which there are only about 2 of?) have enough importance to warrant a skill, unlike dark magic.

That and Assassin as a thief class just doesn't suit Lyn in the first place. If she was going to have a class without regard for Sol Katti access and just get it anyway, I'd expect her to be a Bow Knight.

But yeah, it just doesn't fit. It's also worth noting that Dark Blessing already existed ingame: Inverse uses it to equip Goetia as a Dark Pegasus, and she's going to be playable anyway. Meanwhile, we haven't seen any such skill for Amatsu and Sol Katti, and they just don't seem important enough anyway.

---

Edit: Wait. There's only one FE2 team, yet both Alm and Cellica have already appeared as bosses. It makes sense, since they're the two main characters and it wouldn't make sense to designate one as the team leader over the other, but it means there are 13 team leaders to consider now. I'm not sure what the implications of this are.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Othin

[BlueLore]

about lyns class:

well I still think she'll be a mymidon.

Like already said,assassin doesn't suit her personally but it is rather similar to the blade lord class.

At the same time we have to keep in mind that the sol katti is myrm/swordmaster exclusive.

I don't realy see her getting a unique class(since there isn't really a need for it) or a unique skill(for the same reasons othin mentioned)and celice looks already like a swordmaster so I guess she will be a myrmidon since those are able to promote to both swordmaster and assassin,the two classes that resemble her the most.

Edited May 20, 2012 by BlueLore

[Othin]

about lyns class:

well I still think she'll be a mymidon.

Like already said,assassin doesn't suit her personally but it is rather similar to the blade lord class.

At the same time we have to keep in mind that the sol katti is myrm/swordmaster exclusive.

I don't realy see her getting a unique class(since there isn't really a need for it) or a unique skill(for the same reasons othin mentioned)and celice looks already like a swordmaster so I guess she will be a myrmidon since those are able to promote to both swordmaster and assassin,the two classes that resemble her the most.

The problem is, Myrmidon is an unpromoted class. We saw unpromoted characters joining following the ST maps, but the rest of the sets are set at a much higher level. RvB, the most likely place for Lyn to join, has all promoted enemies and has Elincia join at a LV6 Falcoknight.

I was thinking over the possible implications of two more new classes. Alm's class introduced the missing axe/tome combination. The remaining missing combinations are lance/bow, bow/tome, and bow/staff. With Lyn having to use swords and Cellica having to use tomes, this could work out by having Lyn use swords/bows/staffs and having Cellica use lances/bows/tomes. Neither combination would be any stranger than Alm going from swords/bows to swords/axes/tomes, I think, and it would allow both classes to add more options to the characters with them to extend their overall options. The most obvious option for Cellica is swords/tomes/staffs, mirroring her FE2 abilities, but characters already can use swords/tomes, swords/staffs, and tomes/staffs. Combining them like that just wouldn't bring a whole lot of new, interesting stuff, and giving her lances/bows/tomes would make her an interesting counterpart for Alm, sharing tomes but using the other two physical weapon types.

[VincentASM]

I think I briefly mentioned this before and I hate to sound like a broken record...

Amatsu and Sol Katti aren't Myrmidon and Swordmaster exclusive, they're "Swordfighter family" exclusive, which is the same thing right now, but not if a new "Swordfighter family" class is added.

[Othin]

I think I briefly mentioned this before and I hate to sound like a broken record...

Amatsu and Sol Katti aren't Myrmidon and Swordmaster exclusive, they're "Swordfighter family" exclusive, which is the same thing right now, but not if a new "Swordfighter family" class is added.

Interesting. Are dark magic and Longbows the same way?

[NeonZ]

Well... what if there's no Celica DLC at all? It seemed like an obvious conclusion, but if we're assuming that there's only 4 DLC characters left, what if it's Lyn with some kind of magic (Sword?) Saint class for females taking that spot? Swords + Bows + Staffs. It'd allow her to wield the Sol Katti, and, sword aside, would be pretty different from Magic Warrior. The other 3 could be Ike, Eliwood and Sigurd. That way every main lord would be represented, with only secondary ones excluded from the DLC.

Edited May 20, 2012 by NeonZ

[VincentASM]

Interesting. Are dark magic and Longbows the same way?

I know Dark Magic is treated the same; each dark tome says "Dark Mage family/group only" and I assume it's similar for Archers (I haven't seen a picture of the long bows).

I'm kind of lazy to check, but I think it might common practice in FE (especially more recent games) to write "X family only", as it saves space in weapon descriptions and lets fans speculate. The English versions might have cut off "family" to save even more space (since, generally, it takes way more symbols to write something out in English than in Japanese--ask Popo or anybody on the FE12 project team).

[Othin]

Well... what if there's no Celica DLC at all? It seemed like an obvious conclusion, but if we're assuming that there's only 4 DLC characters left, what if it's Lyn with some kind of magic (Sword?) Saint class for females taking that spot? Swords + Lances (or bows) + Staffs. It'd allow her to wield the Sol Katti, and, sword aside, would be pretty different from Magic Warrior. The other 3 could be Ike, Eliwood and Sigurd. That way every main lord would be represented, with only secondary ones excluded from the DLC.

I can't see with them going with Lyn/Eliwood and Ike/Elincia over Alm/Cellica. Especially with Cellica having already showed up as a DLC boss, while neither Lyn nor Eliwood has.

That distribution of DLC classes would also be somewhat odd, with one FE7 character getting a unique class but the other not.

I know Dark Magic is treated the same; each dark tome says "Dark Mage family/group only" and I assume it's similar for Archers (I haven't seen a picture of the long bows).

I'm kind of lazy to check, but I think it might common practice in FE (especially more recent games) to write "X family only", as it saves space in weapon descriptions and lets fans speculate. The English versions might have cut off "family" to save even more space (since, generally, it takes way more symbols to write something out in English than in Japanese--ask Popo or anybody on the FE12 project team).

Makes sense. Checking it, the kanji match up for Longbows.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Othin

[Kaplan]

I can't see with them going with Lyn/Eliwood and Ike/Elincia over Alm/Cellica. Especially with Cellica having already showed up as a DLC boss, while neither Lyn nor Eliwood has.

That distribution of DLC classes would also be somewhat odd, with one FE7 character getting a unique class but the other not.

Also I don't know about the popularity of different FE lords in Japan but if this game plans to go international then Cellica pretty much needs the unique class to sell as well as other more popular characters. Lyn, internationally anyway, is probably popular enough to sell as well as the others without a unique class.

[Shun One]

Two more new classes is possible, if a bit unlikely. I think you're on the right track to state that Lyn would get a new Swordmaster/Myrmidon family class that uses at least three weapon type's. If Lyn doesn't get such a class, as was pointed out, Celica would get one sense she'd need something to boost her relevance.

The tough part here is figuring out which character from FE7 will get included. Lyn or Eliwood? I was leaning toward Lyn unless IS do a sort of Father & Son vs Father & Son DLC pitting Roy and Eliwood against Celice and Sigurd. That, however, is a big stretch and not worth taking into consideration.

Now, this is highly unlikely given SpotPass and DLC thus far, but what if each continent got three reps? Obviously, Magvel is the tough one to call considering it only spanned one game, but if it were true then we should end up with:

Emblem Saga

Marth, Alm, Celica

Judgral

Sigurd, Celice, Leaf

Elibe

Roy, Eliwood, Lyn

Magvel

Ephraim, Eirika, Lyon

Tellius

Ike, Elincia, Micaiah

Bolded are confirmed. The problem is that it boosts the total number past our projected 12 units and Camus is more likely to appear if we're going to get any villain considering he's the leader of a SpotPass team. It would also bring up the havoc of classes, so that's another point against it. It was fun to think up, but it's an entirely unlikely scenario and I'm more inclined to go with Othin's theories than what I just came up with in my spare time.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Shun One

[Heroic]

Also I don't know about the popularity of different FE lords in Japan but if this game plans to go international then Cellica pretty much needs the unique class to sell as well as other more popular characters. Lyn, internationally anyway, is probably popular enough to sell as well as the others without a unique class.

Who says each DLC needs to sell equally well? Wouldn't it make more sense to include a unique class with a popular character such as Lyn to optimize profit? After all, this is what IS is after, is it not?

Edit: I realize it's fun to debate about future DLC, but is everyone here assuming that future DLC characters will, at some point in time, be fought as the "boss" of their teams? And in that regard, that there can only exist one character per class? Fire Emblem has spanned several titles to date, and as such, it seems absurd that IS would attempt to separate each DLC character into their own class.

Everyone here seems to be looking for the solution to this "pattern," when there could be simply no pattern at all.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Heroic

[BlueLore]

The problem is, Myrmidon is an unpromoted class. We saw unpromoted characters joining following the ST maps, but the rest of the sets are set at a much higher level. RvB, the most likely place for Lyn to join, has all promoted enemies and has Elincia join at a LV6 Falcoknight.

I was thinking over the possible implications of two more new classes. Alm's class introduced the missing axe/tome combination. The remaining missing combinations are lance/bow, bow/tome, and bow/staff. With Lyn having to use swords and Cellica having to use tomes, this could work out by having Lyn use swords/bows/staffs and having Cellica use lances/bows/tomes. Neither combination would be any stranger than Alm going from swords/bows to swords/axes/tomes, I think, and it would allow both classes to add more options to the characters with them to extend their overall options. The most obvious option for Cellica is swords/tomes/staffs, mirroring her FE2 abilities, but characters already can use swords/tomes, swords/staffs, and tomes/staffs. Combining them like that just wouldn't bring a whole lot of new, interesting stuff, and giving her lances/bows/tomes would make her an interesting counterpart for Alm, sharing tomes but using the other two physical weapon types.

it is not like the dlc-chapters only get harder,with celice having a 3-star chapter,while ephraim has a 4-star-chapter.

So it is possible that they include another 2-star-chapter with an unpromoted character joining(we also got a 2-star chapter alongside ephraims 4-star chapter).

Another possibility is that she gets a 3-star chapter and that it is part of the difficulty that she's unpromoted.

I kinda doubt the thing about the classes,even though it would be cool to have it,but they could have given ephraim a special class to cover the lance-classes.

I also see alm as a special case,for me it looks more like they just wanted to include the demon fighter and changed it a little bit to set it apart from the hero and the grandmaster class.

Who says each DLC needs to sell equally well? Wouldn't it make more sense to include a unique class with a popular character such as Lyn to optimize profit? After all, this is what IS is after, is it not?

Edit: I realize it's fun to debate about future DLC, but is everyone here assuming that future DLC characters will, at some point in time, be fought as the "boss" of their teams? And in that regard, that there can only exist one character per class? Fire Emblem has spanned several titles to date, and as such, it seems absurd that IS would attempt to separate each DLC character into their own class.

Everyone here seems to be looking for the solution to this "pattern," when there could be simply no pattern at all.

I doubt that alm is very popular,but he still got a special class,so they are probably not going by popularity.

[Polaris]

That's it though. Alm isn't popular, so he gets a new class as a bonus (rather, an incentive) for buying his DLC. As a buyer, I have far less reason to pick up DLC that nets me a character I know nothing about versus one of my favourites. So, you create a reason (by giving them a bonus class or some such).

The more popular characters can afford having fewer frills in their DLC chapters because their sales can ride on the strength of that popularity, rather than DLC content by itself. It's unfortunate, but that's likely the rationale behind giving Alm a unique class rather than someone like Ephraim.

[Othin]

it is not like the dlc-chapters only get harder,with celice having a 3-star chapter,while ephraim has a 4-star-chapter.

So it is possible that they include another 2-star-chapter with an unpromoted character joining(we also got a 2-star chapter alongside ephraims 4-star chapter).

Another possibility is that she gets a 3-star chapter and that it is part of the difficulty that she's unpromoted.

I'm talking about map sets, not individual maps. Look at the pattern:

Spirit Talisman: First two are 1-star, final is 2-star (unpromoted characters join)

King vs. King: First two are 2-star, final is 3-star (promoted characters join)

Red vs. Blue: First two are 3-star, final is 4-star (promoted characters join)

Light vs. Dark: First two are 4-star, final is 5-star (promoted characters join)

The zombie maps are outside of the map sets and don't involve characters joining, so they don't count. Looking strictly at this pattern, the only remaining DLC maps we will see with characters joining are a 3-star map, two 4-star maps, and a 5-star map, all of which are far above the level of having unpromoted characters join. The only way they could have another map at a level where it would be appropriate for an unpromoted character to join would be to break away from the map sets completely or insert another full map set redundant with another map set's difficulty level.

And no, there is no sense whatsoever in having her join at an inappropriate level. The DLC characters join only after the map is completed, so Lyn's joining level would not impact the map difficulty at all: it would only make the DLC completely fucking pointless to buy because by the time you would be able to complete it you'd get a character who was completely worthless.

[NeonZ]

The zombie maps are outside of the map sets and don't involve characters joining, so they don't count. Looking strictly at this pattern, the only remaining DLC maps we will see with characters joining are a 3-star map, two 4-star maps, and a 5-star map, all of which are far above the level of having unpromoted characters join. The only way they could have another map at a level where it would be appropriate for an unpromoted character to join would be to break away from the map sets completely or insert another full map set redundant with another map set's difficulty level.

Hm... Wouldn't a final level with two 5 star maps also fit that pattern? Each difficulty level has gotten at least two maps so far, so there could be a final DLC that just had one or two 5 star maps. Anyway, I guess we're very close to seeing what they're going to do in one way or another... The stage that starts on a higher difficulty rating has always been revealed before the final battle of the previous map.

Edited May 21, 2012 by NeonZ

[BlueLore]

@Othin:

I understand your point with the character-chapters,but why would Lyn as a myrmidon be so unlikely for a level 3-chapter?

I mean it isn't much of a difference between level 6 falcon knight and level 20 myrmidon,especially if the mymidon has skills/stats as if it reclassed already or maybe has some special skill to make up for it(wouldn't be that different from est-type characters).

Not to mention that we've got already a chapter with a character that seems to be underleveld for that difficulty,at least compared to the other characters whose dlc-chapters share the same difficult level.

I am talking about Micaiah who joins as a level 12 dark mage,which is quite weak compared to leaf who joins as a level 1 trickster(which is treated as level 21) and alm who joins as a level 21 demon fighter,which is even better than trickster level 1,since the demon fighter can only go til level 30(so he should be rather comparable to a level 8 promoted class or something like this).

I am sorry if I am totally wrong,but since I don't have the game I can only make assumptions based on the facts I get from the internet :p

[NeonZ]

Although King Vs King 1 and 2, and Talisman 3 are both 2 star stages, based on what I've read, it seems like the King vs King maps have higher level enemies and promoted units than Talisman 3. Even Ike, the boss in Talisman 3, is just a level 15 mercenary, not a promoted hero, meanwhile even the first King vs King has a promoted boss, Sigurd, and also a few other promoted units, like Leif, Alvis and Celice.

Thinking about it, I guess that's another point for a level 5 only stage...

Edited May 21, 2012 by NeonZ

[Othin]

BlueLore, I understand where you're coming from as your points make sense in theory, but the reality of the game is a bit different. As NeonZ noted, ST3 really isn't on the same level as KvK, despite being set at the same number of stars. The ST cast has much the same stats across the three maps, increasing only slightly with each successive one. This fits with the slight ascension in Marth's, Roy's, and Micaiah's starting levels. The main reason ST3 is listed as 2-star is because you fight all the enemies from the two previous maps, and with better weapons such as Ragnell.

Meanwhile, while ST's cast hovers around LV10, KvK's cast hovers around LV20, with many enemies being promoted. As far as I can tell, unlike in ST, the enemies' stats in KvK are constant: they retain their levels and stats between the first two maps, and I suspect the same is true for the third, although I can't confirm that just yet. So with the enemies being at this level, Leaf joins as a LV1 Trickster, right around where your team might be to be able to challenge these foes.

Meanwhile, Alm joins as a LV21 Demon Fighter, which is in fact the exact same level. For all purposes of Exp gain, promoted units are counted as being their level +20, while single-tier units are simply counted as being their own level. If either one of them were to use a Change Seal from base, they would both have 10 internal levels stored to affect their future Exp gains, and both of them would have to gain 9 levels in order to access promoted classes with a Change Seal. So if this pattern continues, I suspect we will see KvK3's larger and probably better-equipped cast still at those same levels and stats, and still with Celice retaining the same joining level to join as a LV1 Swordmaster.

So fitting with this pattern, I would also expect RvB units to join at LV6 promoted or LV26 single-tier, like Elincia, and I would expect LvD units to join at LV20 promoted or LV40 single-tier, like Ephraim. Now, of course, LV40 is impossible for single-tier units, which could hypothetically cause problems for a character in a new class, but I don't think it does. After all, they could simply join at LV30 with stats akin to those of a LV40 unit: they would be just as strong and their level would be just as maxed out.

This all then leads into my suspicions about a lack of 5-star stages. See, LvD as a 4-star stage has gone about as far as you could go. The enemies, allies, and the character who joins all do so at maximum level with fantastic stats and skillsets full of the game's best skills, and the characters on the field have most of the best weapons in the game. You're also fighting against the villains of the series, and the later maps, the heroes as well. On Lunatic, the enemies go so far as to have most of their stats capped. LvD3 should elevate a map with those same characters to a 5-star level by having all of them and no allies, and perhaps some weapon improvements. But with this in mind, what else could 5-star maps possibly do, to not be simply an expanded 4-star map?

I mean, I'm sure we'll see a 5-star monster map with some of its own tricks, but that's another story. I do think we may see some 13th character map, because we've been seeing the 12 team captains as bosses, but we saw both Alm and Cellica as bosses from the FE2 team, so that's an extra unless they replace someone. But I really don't know what to think of it, because it's both necessary and doesn't make sense.

Also, 5 monster maps and 12 character maps would be 17 total maps. I hate the number 17.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Othin

[BlueLore]

@Othin:

Thx for explaining your point to me now I understand.

In that case you might be right about the special class,but I kinda can't see it since she fits so perfectly into both swordmaster and assassin(maybe she'll be really just an assassin,the fact that the class doesn't really match her personality doesn't really matter as Leaf most likely doesn't behave like a trickster only problem would be the sol katti thing,but that could be solved either via reclassing or by giving us some kind of special version of sol katti that is always usable by lyn),or she's a swordmaster,since it is not really confirmed that celice is one(or am I wrong about this?)

[Othin]

I can't see them adding a special version of the Sol Katti for no reason, especially when we don't even have the original yet. It's worth noting that no DLC characters thus far have unique consideration with regard to that: DLC Marth can use the Falchions, but so can the SpotPass versions. Now, it's possible that Lyn might have that special consideration for her SpotPass version as well, but not likely because she's not Marth, and Marth gets special treatment. Also, her SpotPass version would almost certainly be a regular Swordmaster, making it redundant.

Celice is a Swordmaster: his outfit leaves no question about it. The question is, why does he have the class as opposed to Lyn? Lyn, assuming she's included, is the obvious choice if they're going with one each, while Celice was changed so much to become a Swordmaster and could just as easily be changed into a Bow Knight or something if that was their plan. But for some reason, things didn't work out that way. Unless they had something else planned for Lyn's class, I can't imagine why they wouldn't make her a Swordmaster.

Well, we should find out in two and a half days anyway.

[Momo]

Yeah, I await the big reveal of Lyn drawn by Tetsuya Nomura.

[Murdok Dracul]

Everyone here seems to be looking for the solution to this "pattern," when there could be simply no pattern at all.

I think I agree with you.

I myself have no problem with the Swordmaster class being repeated. We can reclass them all into whatever we want anyway. There is the possibility that Lyn could be an Assassin or Bow Knight instead of Swordmaster. The Sol Katti strongly implies that she'll be a Swordmaster, but it doesn't prove it. ...Not that I care.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Pictures incoming~

http://www.gamefaqs....akusei/62890565

That's an odd looking axe :<

Edited May 24, 2012 by L95

[Othin]

Pictures incoming~

http://www.gamefaqs....akusei/62890565

That's an odd looking axe :<

Looks like the new one, with Vengeance attached. Just got it. I guess it finishes the FE2 trio.

Getting DLC now. And just when I was about to go to bed...

[Thor Odinson]

It's Vengeance axe.

Edit: ninja'd

Edited May 24, 2012 by Luminescent Blade