CCMRCSGWNR3:FFDH Game Thread

[Scarlet]

@Shinori: The problem is that you keep stating nothing but the obvious or what's already been said. You aren't bringing anything new to the table, which makes it seem like you're just trying to blend in (which is what the mafia does). The fact that you always change your opinion as soon as someone says "hey, this doesn't look very good" doesn't help either.

There's a fine line between "changing your vote/opinion because it's the right thing to do" and changing it merely because staying on it would look bad.

Then there's your constant "why me", which is a very famous newbmaf-scumtell.

@Marth: Considering the number of players, it's indeed very probable that we have a third party player if Haze likes balanced setups. I'm not gonna make any assumptions about its nature, though.

@Bizz: Why a Kay lynch?

@Kaoz: That's not an excuse to post emptiness.

And I do agree with Prims and Bizz that putting a (probably non-existent) cult in the spotlight as early as D1 is a scumtell, especially when you do it after being put in the spotlight. It's basically "hey guys, don't go after me, the cult is much more important!", which is, like, the oldest scumtell in existence.

My vote stays where it is.

@Flint: Most subtle claim ever.

I dunno why you're addressing me with that specifically (must be my authority!), but yes, if I'm thinking of the right role, claiming your target would be very important.

Just not in public, as otherwise the mafia can simply target your target and get a free extra kill.

[Prims]

holy shit blitz, you're allowed to ignore your posting restriction for clarity, you realize this right

re: Kaoz lynch: aaaaaaaaactually I wouldn't be too surprised if scum know what Blitz's role is. Shinori has a crazy amount of votes right now and this game doesn't require majority lynches, so

##Unvote

##Vote Kaoz

in case town decides that's a better idea while I'm not here.

i also feel like shinori is being used as a last minute pile-up by scum given the rapid acceleration of his wagon near the end of the day but wouldn't clear him for that since it could be a bus

aaaand with that I'm probably gone for the rest of the day.

[Prims]

+ Kaoz:

- what are your opinions on people other than Shinori? Not having thoughts outside of the huge wagon this late into the day is rather weak

- why haven't you claimed to me?

I expect Slayer, Psych, Elieson and Shinori to do something with their vote before the end of the day.

[Kaoz]

That's not true.

We have my Night action info, and a cleared Rein, and we also know Eclipse is Prims.

Well, for starters, eclipse being Prims doesn't tell us anything about her alliance. Secondly, from most people's (i.e. anyone who isn't Prims or Strawman) point of view, there are probably 5 people that they don't want to lynch (or at least I didn't see anything that would suggest otherwise), which still leaves 12/17 players as legitimate lynch choices. If you are Prims/Strawman, then that number may or may not be a bit smaller due to claims, same if you got an great info role, but yeah.

I think all that Marth was trying to get at was that we can't expect to lynch mafia today, so it's a useless requirement for Blitz claiming to Prims/Strawman.

I'm currently being voted by stating too many townish opinions. I've stated who i thought was scum and ive stated who i thought was town. I voted elieson because he isn't doing much at all and I wanted him to answer a question. If i had voted a majority of the other players i would have been called out by prims again for an easy jump onto a wagon. Which blitz had 2 votes on him and psych had 2 votes on him at the time as well. And other than that I felt like i wouldn't learn anything from voting the others without enough substantial evidence or reason to vote them, not to mention then i would be voted because i am just voting to vote. So i voted elieson which seemed like my only real option. Since being the third person onto a wagon is late supposedly and my opinions are too town/general town consensus. Which confuses me. Am i supposed to say stuff different from the town? Should i saw i think prims is scum even though he is 90% most likely town?

I just don't get the reasoning for voting me frankly. And some people weren't even giving reasoning either.

As long as you're convinced that X is mafia, it doesn't matter how many other people voted for them already. As for why people are voting for you, in addition to what Raymond said, I would think it's because:

I stated they were neutral reads in the first post because i was in a rush for time. I actually wanted to make the second post to post some things i didn't get in the first one. I had that planned originally. And i ended up posting to prims just that there were 5 people i though that could be leaning scum. I never said they were scum, just said that im leaning that way.

Here's the problem from my pov. First they are neutral reads, then they are scum reads, and then you backtrack again and are saying they could potentially be scum reads but you aren't really sure. You're doing the same thing here:

Also let it be shown i wasn't badgering you too much, I'm just agreeing that i would like a little bit more conversation from you, you could at least post your thoughts on the important stuff if you get the chances to come online at least once a day.

As soon as you get called out on something, you try to backtrack a bit and want to make it look more neutral again.

@Kaoz: That's not an excuse to post emptiness.

And I do agree with Prims and Bizz that putting a (probably non-existent) cult in the spotlight as early as D1 is a scumtell, especially when you do it after being put in the spotlight. It's basically "hey guys, don't go after me, the cult is much more important!", which is, like, the oldest scumtell in existence.

My vote stays where it is.

What spotlight? Before that post, the only votes on me were Rein and Strawman because Proto was inactive. Pretty sure I could have posted pretty much anything to get them off of me.

Honestly, I feel like you're misrepresenting my statement here. Post qualitiy will likely improve when I don't read through half the game in one go.

[Shinori]

@Kaoz: I never stated i thought iris though was scum, Go read my thoughts, in fact i'll post it here instead.

13. Iris - Claimed miller. Hasn't said much besides that, still think she's town because of miller claim, otherwise it's a ballsy mafia claim. Should post more.

I never said i thought she was scum except she took offense that i said she should post more.

Also at the first argument that people are saying im backtracking part of those thoughts said i was neutral, leaning scum, on some of those players. Also after seeing more posts or re-reading whats to stop someone from going to neutral to a scum read?

Also if you want me to go back to what i think is scummy instead of attempt to get info out of someone quiet,

##Unvote

##Vote: Slayer

I've stated my thoughts and reasonings and i haven't seen him do much at all. The fact that i went to vote elieson was for more info since he is quiet and slayer would not be able to respond. I wanted to attempt to get something done in the mean time. If that's not a good idea to get info for the town then whatever. Derp on me.

[Bluedoom]

Shinori.

You didn't vote for Slayer because he wasn't online. He still isn't online. You're changing your vote just because you're being pressured.

Also for a vote for now. ##Vote: Slayer

Slayer has been having a lot of posts lately but the majority of these posts have been small, and not too helpful. He has been mimicing others opinions just as i have and if that is a scum read then he's been having this same issue. However i think he's going to bed so I don't think this helps us at all. ##Unvote

[Kaoz]

re: Kaoz lynch: aaaaaaaaactually I wouldn't be too surprised if scum know what Blitz's role is.

As if you hadn't figured it out yourself already...

also blitz i bet bizz is a scum role 8)

+ Kaoz: - what are your opinions on people other than Shinori? Not having thoughts outside of the huge wagon this late into the day is rather weak

- why haven't you claimed to me?

Because I'm perfectly capable of playing this role without your guidance and I think it's better for the town if I don't claim right now.

As for opinions:

1. Blitz - as I said before, neutral because he overuses his PR and I'm not sure what to make of it

2. Shinori - looks indecisive to me, do not like

3. Levity - can't say much negative here

4. Anouleth - bleh didn't really say anything, so no clue.. don't want to lynch though and hoping for some more content soon

5. Rein - leaning town because of public information, would appreciate it if he posted more though

6. Eclipse - didn't like that she jumped on me for something fairly obvious, other than that don't recall anything terrible; don't want to draw any conclusions based on her claimed SMS restriction

7. Slayer - feels kinda forgetable, I don't recall much besides his PR to be honest, wouldn't be opposed to lynching him

8. Marth - I believe there was some questionable stuff early during the phase, but the quality of his posts has improved, so we'll see where that goes

9. Psych - yeah...

10. Kay - few but decent posts so far.. iirc Bizz said something about her not having a lot of opinions, which I don't really agree with

11. Elieson - not sure what to think of him; his one large post had little actual content when you get down to it which may or may not be because of this being his first game; again not opposed to a lynch here

12. StSS - claimed mason, probably true, but I want to raise this probability just a little bit more before claiming

13. Iris - pretty much in the same boat as Kay, just slightly weaker overall; as for the miller claim, I would honestly consider vigging her tonight unless she claimed a really good role.. if there's no claimed Vig, I would also consider her a lynch target because we have no way of determining her alliance without process of elimination which may or may not work

14. Raymond - seems solid overall, but seems to read a bit too much into things at times (Bizz's PR use at the beginning and me mentioning cult come to mind)

16. Prims - see Strawman

17. Balcerzak - can't get much of a read here

[Kaoz]

@Kaoz: I never stated i thought iris though was scum, Go read my thoughts, in fact i'll post it here instead.

I never said i thought she was scum except she took offense that i said she should post more.

I read your thoughts and didn't say you thought she was scum. What I'm refering to is that you wanted her to do something and as soon as you got some resistance turned back on it.

Also at the first argument that people are saying im backtracking part of those thoughts said i was neutral, leaning scum, on some of those players. Also after seeing more posts or re-reading whats to stop someone from going to neutral to a scum read?

Theoretically nothing. Practically that's not what you said though, you said that the second post were your actual opinions and that you already wanted to post them in the first one and just ran out of time. In other words, you didn't update your actual opinions, but only what you said.

Also if you want me to go back to what i think is scummy instead of attempt to get info out of someone quiet,

##Unvote

##Vote: Slayer

I've stated my thoughts and reasonings and i haven't seen him do much at all. The fact that i went to vote elieson was for more info since he is quiet and slayer would not be able to respond. I wanted to attempt to get something done in the mean time. If that's not a good idea to get info for the town then whatever. Derp on me.

What Marth said.

[Bluedoom]

Oh yeah, I won't be here for end phase. Well, this is pretty much the case with every end phase in this game I guess, unless I wake up real early, or the end time is GMT 3 or something.

[eclipse]

The more I read this, the less I like Kaoz. Those aren't very good opinions (Blitz's post restriction is the very least of his activity, for one), and you have conveniently forgotten Unicycle Mafia, which you had BEST remember. We were two-thirds of a scum team there.

I'm not gonna be around for phase end, because I've got a life, so the rest of you had best do something amazing if Kaoz claims to be useful.

[Scarlet]

Because I'm perfectly capable of playing this role without your guidance and I think it's better for the town if I don't claim right now.

Why so anti-town

Also it's not like Prims is going to tell everyone what to do anyway, there aren't enough SMSs available to do so

[Kaoz]

The more I read this, the less I like Kaoz. Those aren't very good opinions (Blitz's post restriction is the very least of his activity, for one), and you have conveniently forgotten Unicycle Mafia, which you had BEST remember. We were two-thirds of a scum team there.

Blitz's post restriction is the cause for the way a majority of his posts are structured from what I remember. Also I will freely admit that those aren't great opinions, but you should know that I have trouble for a period of time after subbing in. As for Unicycle, I'm not saying I will never claim, just that I think it's not necessarily a good idea to do so right now. The reason for that is because of the nature of my role, coupled with the fact that my night action (should it exist) doesn't need coordination, and the original argument of claiming early to avoid giving mafia time to prepare fakes doesn't apply anymore (if you think I'm mafia and didn't make a fake yet, I'll feel rather insulted).

I'm not gonna be around for phase end, because I've got a life, so the rest of you had best do something amazing if Kaoz claims to be useful.

I claim to be town which is very useful in my eyes.

[eclipse]

. . .that's not amazing, IMO. That's also not a great reason to claim. If there's something in your role PM that gives you pause, at least mention it. Otherwise, you come across as stubborn as best and a hindrance at worst.

[Kaoz]

. . .that's not amazing, IMO. That's also not a great reason to claim. If there's something in your role PM that gives you pause, at least mention it. Otherwise, you come across as stubborn as best and a hindrance at worst.

Not directly in my role pm, but I see what I see and hope you can trust my judgement on this one. My concerns aren't terribly huge, but they exist.

I will claim if I have to, anything else would be stupid, but I would prefer it if people could accept my decision here.

[eclipse]

This tells me you're not claiming due to paranoia, which isn't a good reason IMO. If you can come up with something coherent (and definitely more coherent than Blitz), that would be enough to move my vote off of you. Right now, I have no reason to trust you, and Proto didn't make himself look like the shining paragon of townliness before you came in.

[Kaoz]

This tells me you're not claiming due to paranoia, which isn't a good reason IMO. If you can come up with something coherent (and definitely more coherent than Blitz), that would be enough to move my vote off of you. Right now, I have no reason to trust you, and Proto didn't make himself look like the shining paragon of townliness before you came in.

I think there's a very high chance that Prims and Strawman are town, but it's not high enough for me to feel comfortable claiming and I can't think of a way to paraphrase it like I did in Duel Terminal. It's not unlikely that it turns out to be paranoia, but I'd rather be on the safe side with this.

[eclipse]

PEOPLE WHO MAKE A CRAPPY LYNCH TARGET:

Rein - unless you guys think he's a godfather or something

Me - 'cause I don't see the point in lynching me

Marth - for whatever Prims sees

Psych - Stupid person/role or not, the part he mentioned about me is true

StSS - obvious reasons

Prims - obvious reasons

PEOPLE WHO PROBABLY SHOULD NOT BE LYNCHED:

Bizz - role reasons, I think?

Raymond - he tends to press people all the time, but I'm happy enough to leave him be for now.

Balcerzak - he's amusing, and even if he doesn't post much, he Gets Things Done.

PEOPLE WHO HAVE SHITTY LOGIC:

Blitz and Kaoz for the exact same reasons (being paranoid and stupid is detrimental to the town; get that through your collective skulls). Shinori because he needs to work on defending himself, no matter what his alignment.

PEOPLE WHO NEED TO POST MORE USEFUL THINGS:

Anouleth

Slayer

Kay

Elieson

Iris (I have no reason to think she's lying about the miller part, though)

Everyone who I haven't expressed a desire not to lynch is fine by me for a D1 target. Shinori's a very easy mislynch, though, so people in the "need to post more" category who have a vote on him are ever-so-slightly more suspicious than the rest, but don't warrant another category. That means my vote stays put, and I'm keeping an eye on Iris and Kay.

[Scarlet]

I claim to be town which is very useful in my eyes.

Everyone claims town

-> Everyone is useful! \o/

In other words, worst logic ever, and certainly not something I'd expect from someone who considers himself a skilled player.

Also, just in case it escaped your attention, the phase is nearing its end and you're currently the guy with the second-most votes (if I haven't miscounted), with a growing tendency towards absolute majority. If that's not a good time to claim, then tell me, what is?

[Anouleth]

Not directly in my role pm, but I see what I see and hope you can trust my judgement on this one. My concerns aren't terribly huge, but they exist.

I will claim if I have to, anything else would be stupid, but I would prefer it if people could accept my decision here.

Just because the lynch is on Shinori doesn't make you safe, Kaoz.

[Kaoz]

Everyone claims town

-> Everyone is useful! \o/

In other words, worst logic ever, and certainly not something I'd expect from someone who considers himself a skilled player.

Standard response is standard.

Also, just in case it escaped your attention, the phase is nearing its end and you're currently the guy with the second-most votes (if I haven't miscounted), with a growing tendency towards absolute majority. If that's not a good time to claim, then tell me, what is?

When I have a majority. I still hope that people are sensible enough so that I don't have to though.

Secondly, before I send a claim I would like Strawman to post that he's actually here since it's a waste otherwise.

Let me ask you something though. Do you honestly think that, if I was mafia, I wouldn't have made a fake yet? That was the initial reason for claiming right now from what I can tell, and it doesn't apply anymore.

[Scarlet]

Standard response is standard.

Come up with better arguments and I'll come up with better responses. ;3

When I have a majority. I still hope that people are sensible enough so that I don't have to though.

Yeah, because we don't need any time to react and possibly unvote you before phase end

Let me ask you something though. Do you honestly think that, if I was mafia, I wouldn't have made a fake yet? That was the initial reason for claiming right now from what I can tell, and it doesn't apply anymore.

Who knows?

If you do have a fake, it's still possible that it might conflict with someone else's claim. It also forces you to stick with it instead of being able to claim something more beneficial later on depending on the current situation.

If you're town, it helps coordinate the town, as well as rule out fakes and incosistencies in others' claims.

Really, I shouldn't have to explain this to you. You know all of this, so don't pretend like it's something completely knew and absurd.

[Kaoz]

Come up with better arguments and I'll come up with better responses. ;3

I actually meant mine.

Yeah, because we don't need any time to react and possibly unvote you before phase end

Chances are that like 2 people need to shift votes, that's not unrealstic.

Who knows?

If you do have a fake, it's still possible that it might conflict with someone else's claim. It also forces you to stick with it instead of being able to claim something more beneficial later on depending on the current situation.

If you're town, it helps coordinate the town, as well as rule out fakes and incosistencies in others' claims.

Really, I shouldn't have to explain this to you. You know all of this, so don't pretend like it's something completely knew and absurd.

What the heck are you talking about.

Fine, fine. My second requirement still stands though, I don't feel like wasting a SMS if Strawman isn't here before phase end. I hope you can live with that.

[Percivalé]

I had a dream that both shinori and kaoz were mafia :3 and I don't like this, kaoz sounds exactly like when he was mafia in another game. ):

[Shinori]

I was told to vote who i thought was scummy. Thus i did so. What else should i do? Can't vote kaoz now otherwise im accused of bussing/sheeping, which is the exact thing that happened with both marth and anou. Not like that helps my case. I'm getting mixed opinions. I figured what kaoz stated just meant for me to vote whoever i thought was scummiest, whereas when i did that i was told that i shouldn't have done that. Apparently I'm just derpy. ##Unvote

I don't know what to do.

[Strawman]

Oh well idk if Kaoz is still here but I'm here now for whatever that is worth...