Why do people hate ENG dubs on anime?

[Loki Laufeyson]

This is actually really accurate. No joke.

People are weeaboos and Japanophiles. They'll get into anime from stuff on Toonami like DBZ and Pokemon and be fine with the dubs then, but then they go on the internet and hear of elitists watching the "original" version and end up jumping on the bandwagon that "all dubs suck" when many are actually very good. It's not uncommon to find English dubs of anime that are either on par with or even better than the Japanese audio, but many people just won't accept it.

It's funny when people who don't know a word of Japanese say things like "the acting is better in Japanese!" because they have absolutely no right to judge the acting when they are not fluent in the language. And that's why Hikarusa's post is accurate; they can judge English acting, so they can criticize it, but Japanese is just moonspeak to them, so they don't know any better.

This. Really this. Most dubs of high quality anime like Hellsing is pretty great. But nooooooo! Some people think its a travesty because they dont want English in their anime.

Maybe some people just grow spiteful towards dubs when they were exposed to dubs like 4kids's One Piece and they grow irrational biased as a result.

There was one dub that left a horrible taste in my mouth due to it changing so many things and meh actors. The CardCaptor Sakura dub. That was gnarly. So i can see some...animosity for certain dubs. But to forsake them all...yeah no.

Studio Ghibli has excellent dubs with fantastic actors doing it. I much rather hear Christian Bale as Howl than the Japanese actor.

I actually prefer dubs because i find that if the voice actors are good (Crispin Freeman, Cam Clarke, Tara Strong, Kari Wahlgren, etc.), then the dub will be enjoyable. I find Japanese to be a bit annoying on my ears and its all greek to me. I also find the female Japanese actors to be far too high pitched at times and ugh.

[Florete]

Well, there's also the preference of viewing the work in its original language...

That's why I started the paragraph with "Enjoyment all comes down to preference." "Original" language isn't even completely accurate when it comes to animation because the voices don't belong to the characters like they would in a live action show; all animation is dubbed, and there are cases in anime where the English audio was actually recorded first.

[Thor Odinson]

I also find the female Japanese actors to be far too high pitched at times and ugh.

I say it really depends on the title. Some originals I've watched had decent at the least, and sometimes great female voices, and a fair share of altos at that too, while the English female cast are all really high-pitched and on top of that, really unnatural sounding, sometimes including those that are altos in the original. Others are vice versa.

So many years back I first got into anime (not counting pokemon) through InuYasha and I was watching whatever I can get on YT/Veoh at the time with absolutely no preference for dubbed/subbed. I think the first few episodes I watched were subbed, and that was all well, but then I watched a dub. Now, most of IY's English cast were at least decent, and some of them were pretty damn good, but the one that stood out to me as extremely irritating was Kagome. Her Japanese voice was pretty good (or at least in my memory anyway, I haven't watched it in years) but the English version was just...grating. So for that specific title I try to stick to subs whenever I can to avoid hearing Kagome's English voice, which is a shame because the rest of the cast (again, in my rather rusty memory) were fine.

But I do agree that Studio Ghibli has quite excellent dubs and since I can get them on DVDs here that's what I watch.

[Ciarre]

But anime is meant to be watched (and heard), not read.

It may be meant to be watched/heard, but I still prefer reading the text.

The only exception I can think of is the original FMA series, which I trained myself to get up at 3 AM to watch on Adult Swim several years ago P: But maybe my hearing was better then.

[Vorena]

Only reason I can really agree with disliking english dubs is when the voices coming out do not match at all with how the lips on a character are moving.

Overall, certain titles are bound to have fairly bad voices since you are trying to get someone to do the voice for something which often times targets only a small audience. In this, I expect to see inexperienced people trying to do voice acting and that is probably where most of the negativity of English dubs come from. After that, it gets ingrained into a stereotype which many people will likely get sucked into partially believing unconsciously.

Plus, I think voice acting for these kind of roles is fairly difficult. You have to give emotion and character through your voice to someone that can get put into whacky situations or things you might never have experienced before. So, some of it might be problems with directing as well. If someone giving you your payroll says speak in a high-pitch voice, you'd probably agree to do it.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Dark Pegasi

[shadowofchaos]

That's why I started the paragraph with "Enjoyment all comes down to preference." "Original" language isn't even completely accurate when it comes to animation because the voices don't belong to the characters like they would in a live action show; all animation is dubbed, and there are cases in anime where the English audio was actually recorded first.

I see your point there. Ha ha.

Well yeah, I guess the main thing that annoys the crap out of me, is that people need to stop jumping down OTHER PEOPLE's throat like the elitist little jerks they are and say "these things suck, and you don't have a right to your opinion because I know better than you do and I say it sucks".

I guess one other thing that makes me want to watch the Japanese version is the jokes and the plot points that are sometimes missed due to translation. There are times when the billion ways to say "I" or "You" and the honorifics actually mean something that is lost in translation.

The first thing that comes to mind is Kanon 2006's rendition of Ayu as using 僕(Boku) as a self-pronoun despite being a girl. And as expected, it was obviously changed. XD

There's kinda no way around that.

Translation is a messy subject sometimes. Despite Japanese honorifics in English being a practical solution... it just sounds freaking AWKWARD as all hell like from the few clips and episodes I catch while surfing a while back with Naruto.

Glad I don't have to deal with that problem. ha ha.

Only reason I can really agree with disliking english dubs is when the voices coming out do not match at all with how the lips on a character are moving.

That's actually a common occurrence. That's why they have such strict timing requirements during the dubbing process. It's rare for them to edit the material to synch to the voice actors unless it's the original, initial dub.

From what I heard, Catherine (PS3 Game) was one of the few to do that when Michelle Ruff and Troy Baker was mentioned in an article, that even if they still have some timing requirements, the lips of the character models were actually timed to their voices.

Edited June 10, 2012 by shadowofchaos

[Florete]

I guess one other thing that makes me want to watch the Japanese version is the jokes and the plot points that are sometimes missed due to translation. There are times when the billion ways to say "I" or "You" and the honorifics actually mean something that is lost in translation.

The first thing that comes to mind is Kanon 2006's rendition of Ayu as using 僕(Boku) as a self-pronoun despite being a girl. And as expected, it was obviously changed. XD

There's kinda no way around that.

But this problem occurs just as much with subtitles as it does with dubbing. Subbing is still translating. Losses in translation are going to occur just as frequently.

Translation is a messy subject sometimes. Despite Japanese honorifics in English being a practical solution... it just sounds freaking AWKWARD as all hell like from the few clips and episodes I catch while surfing a while back with Naruto.

For this specific situation...what was awkward about honorifics in Naruto? The only honorific used there was sensei, but that's pretty well-known in any English-speaking society I've ever known and is often used in American-made movies that have an Asian setting (but the characters are still speaking English), so it's pretty reasonable to use it in anime like Naruto.

That's actually a common occurrence.

You sure? I don't see that commonly at all. Especially since anime mouth movements are always just up and down instead of moving to the actual sound of the words like it would when a normal person speaks.

[shadowofchaos]

But this problem occurs just as much with subtitles as it does with dubbing. Subbing is still translating. Losses in translation are going to occur just as frequently.

They don't have to worry about how it comes out context-wise on culture related translation when they can just easily add in a translation note somewhere else on-screen. Gives them a little bit more wiggle room.

You sure? I don't see that commonly at all. Especially since anime mouth movements are always just up and down instead of moving to the actual sound of the words like it would when a normal person speaks.

Crap, I switched to game mode there.

[Anouleth]

I see your point there. Ha ha.

Well yeah, I guess the main thing that annoys the crap out of me, is that people need to stop jumping down OTHER PEOPLE's throat like the elitist little jerks they are and say "these things suck, and you don't have a right to your opinion because I know better than you do and I say it sucks".

I guess one other thing that makes me want to watch the Japanese version is the jokes and the plot points that are sometimes missed due to translation. There are times when the billion ways to say "I" or "You" and the honorifics actually mean something that is lost in translation.

But in other ways, English offers shades of meaning that are impossible in Japanese. It really works both ways. And it's not like there aren't ways to express those honorifics in English (for example, calling a superior "sir" instead of "sama").

I think the biggest thing that's lost in translation is when animes make puns or jokes based on differences in hiragana/kanji. I remember Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei having a ton of them, but there were also a few in Azumanga Daioh.

[Rehab]

It's true that English can also convey things that Japanese can't, but usually I'd still rather be hearing what the creator intended as directly as possible. I'll admit I don't really care about the quality of the voice acting, relative to that, unless it's truly unbearable.

Unless the original creator oversaw the translation or something, then fuck yeah I'll try the dub

Edited June 10, 2012 by Rehab

[Maou]

Well, here we go: you shouldn't praise Tarusuke for an excellent job voicing Kariya because you're not fluent in Japanese. Acting is about much more than you can hear as someone who isn't fluent and unless the acting is really, really bad, you won't be able to tell the difference between a great performance and a mediocre/bad performance.

No thanks, gonna keep singing my praises cause the man did a great job.

If you prefer subs, fine. But anime is meant to be watched (and heard), not read.

You're watching and listening whether it's a sub or dub, it is not some magical point in a dub's favor.

And how are you rating current anime without a dub if you only have a BGM, text, and animated pictures to judge?

The point is that he realized it was poorly acted when he became fluent in Japanese. Before then, he didn't know the difference.

Part of my point was that using a modern show would have been a better example.

Because they don't understand it.

So your statement regarding how there are some Japanese people who prefer English dubs was meaningless?

[Guy Starwind]

This seems to be very much the case. I've got some very negative reactions for watching dubs from some people. For me, it depends on the atmosphere produced by the dub. I liked the Zatch Bell dub better, mostly because the cast made it hilarious. On the other hand, Tekkaman Blade's dub was horrible, so I decided to watch it subbed. Another reason is some people see themselves as "true fans" for watching the original.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRlCO9mP4zg

Fear localisation!

Wait so that's what Shin's avatar is from? I always wondered.

[Florete]

They don't have to worry about how it comes out context-wise on culture related translation when they can just easily add in a translation note somewhere else on-screen. Gives them a little bit more wiggle room.

TL notes are not a solution, they are the sign of an incompetent translator in almost every case. A competent translation gets the meaning across in the main text. This is the worst for jokes, because then you get a Don't Explain the Joke moment and the joke loses all humor.

You're watching and listening whether it's a sub or dub, it is not some magical point in a dub's favor.

It's more of a counter-argument to the "Subs are how the director intended us to watch it, etc." than an argument for dubs themselves.

And how are you rating current anime without a dub if you only have a BGM, text, and animated pictures to judge?

I never said watching subbed was meaningless and you couldn't get anything out of it. I'm not anti-sub, in case that's what you've been thinking. I just hate the hate English dubs get.

Part of my point was that using a modern show would have been a better example.

Modern or classic makes no difference. The point is that he watched it before he knew Japanese and didn't think anything of the acting (as is assumed). Then he watched it while knowing Japanese and realized how poor the acting was.

So your statement regarding how there are some Japanese people who prefer English dubs was meaningless?

No. It goes to show that part of the reason people think "sub always > dub" is really only because they don't understand what's being said in the former. Because if the Japanese version is always better than the English version, why would anyone in Japan who speaks fluent Japanese ever prefer the English version?

And foreign things are cool.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Madam Red

[Loki Laufeyson]

Personally, i think Excel Saga is loads funnier in english for english speakers. The sub is a bit...i dunno..i get lost and cant read that fast because Excel is a motormouth.

[Florete]

Personally, i think Excel Saga is loads funnier in english for english speakers. The sub is a bit...i dunno..i get lost and cant read that fast because Excel is a motormouth.

True story: Excel's English voice actress was changed halfway through because the original lost her voice trying to keep up with the character. But the new actress is so good most people don't notice anyway.

[shadowofchaos]

TL notes are not a solution, they are the sign of an incompetent translator in almost every case. A competent translation gets the meaning across in the main text. This is the worst for jokes, because then you get a Don't Explain the Joke moment and the joke loses all humor.

Differences in perspectives of the audience require such moments. Jokes are an especially horrible example, because if you've at least had a second language, you know too well that translating jokes just do NOT freaking work most of the time.

If they're referencing something that a Japanese person would be familiar with, like say for example, the color of flowers or the significance of a number in some context, the audience is NOT GONNA FREAKING GET IT if they're not Japanese unless you put in a note.

[eclipse]

WRT to language jokes: I remember one Pokemon episode where May wanted her Torchic to do a move, and mixed up "Peck" and "Mushroom". This makes no sense in English, because "Peck" and "Mushroom" don't sound anything alike. It makes sense in Japanese, because they're fairly close, phonetically speaking. The translators instead had May mix up "Ember" and "Amber". While I have my own issues with the Pokemon dub, I thought this was a nifty solution (even though the mushroom floating across the screen looked really random in the English version).

[Loki Laufeyson]

True story: Excel's English voice actress was changed halfway through because the original lost her voice trying to keep up with the character. But the new actress is so good most people don't notice anyway.

Yeah i know that. Its funny because the actress who replaced the original one was much less squeaky and "raahhhh" sounding. The original was good but had this sort of...almost a grating sound. I think shes the same girl who did Sailor Moon? Thats probably why. Usagi/Serena in the dub of Sailor Moon was always a bit....grating to hear. I do actually prefer the later actress for Excel.

And i cannot for life of me imagine Pedro and Nabashin being as funny sounding in the japanese sub

Didnt the Pokemanz show have some...oddities when it came to pronouncing the names of pokemanz and getting the names mixed up?

[Thor Odinson]

I like how in Black Butler they translated the "Akuma de Shitsuji desu" thing Sebastian always says into "One hell of a butler" when it was originally a wordplay on demon and I forgot what's the other bit. That was pretty neat.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Fat Bunny

[eclipse]

Pokemon didn't acknowledge the existence of onigiri, among many other silly things. It's not the best dub, but every now and then they'd do something right.

[Florete]

Differences in perspectives of the audience require such moments.

No, these should never be required. I've watched a lot of anime and cannot remember a single instance where a TL note was absolutely necessary.

If they're referencing something that a Japanese person would be familiar with, like say for example, the color of flowers or the significance of a number in some context, the audience is NOT GONNA FREAKING GET IT if they're not Japanese unless you put in a note.

I don't understand what you're saying here. Can you give a better example of how a situation like this requires a TL note? All I can see is that things like colors are pretty universal; the Japanese may have a different word for "red," but it's still the color of blood.

WRT to language jokes: I remember one Pokemon episode where May wanted her Torchic to do a move, and mixed up "Peck" and "Mushroom". This makes no sense in English, because "Peck" and "Mushroom" don't sound anything alike. It makes sense in Japanese, because they're fairly close, phonetically speaking. The translators instead had May mix up "Ember" and "Amber". While I have my own issues with the Pokemon dub, I thought this was a nifty solution (even though the mushroom floating across the screen looked really random in the English version).

I like how in Black Butler they translated the "Akuma de Shitsuji desu" thing Sebastian always says into "One hell of a butler" when it was originally a wordplay on demon and I forgot what's the other bit. That was pretty neat.

These are the kings of things competent translators do.

[Jedi]

Pokemon didn't acknowledge the existence of onigiri, among many other silly things. It's not the best dub, but every now and then they'd do something right.

Lol I remember that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Srh6pyyFs

Anyways onto my thoughts of ENG dubs I actually quite like them, good examples like DBZ, Yu Yu Hakusho, FMA, Romeo X Juliet, Ranma 1/2, Inuyasha, Sengoku Basara, and a few others stand out. Meanwhile other series like, The Slayers and Gundam Seed I'll take either the dub or the original Japanese. Busou Renkin, Mai-Hime and Saint Seiya on the other hand... Japanese only lol so it varies quite a bit. Many other series I could have mentioned on all 3 counts but I didn't want to clutter the post up. It all goes back to opinion and preference

Edited June 12, 2012 by Jedisupersonic

[shadowofchaos]

I don't understand what you're saying here. Can you give a better example of how a situation like this requires a TL note? All I can see is that things like colors are pretty universal; the Japanese may have a different word for "red," but it's still the color of blood.

You ARE kidding, right?

I don't actually remember the anime, but giving a white flower to someone while still alive says you are expecting them to die. Now tell me, would you have known that without a Translation note, if it was not at all mentioned in the dialogue, but simply implied from the shocked faces of the people?

Edited June 12, 2012 by shadowofchaos

[Florete]

You ARE kidding, right?

No, I was not. Thanks for giving an example. Your original post was not exactly so informative as to what you meant.

I don't actually remember the anime, but giving a white flower to someone while still alive says you are expecting them to die. Now tell me, would you have known that without a Translation note, if it was not at all mentioned in the dialogue, but simply implied from the shocked faces of the people?

That sounds like a good example. I, at least, cannot think of a way around that. First one I've ever heard of.

However, that alone really doesn't change my point. In 99% of situations there should be a way around TL notes.

[Gold Vanguard]

Lol I remember that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Srh6pyyFs

Anyways onto my thoughts of ENG dubs I actually quite like them, good examples like DBZ, Yu Yu Hakusho, FMA, Romeo X Juliet, Ranma 1/2, Inuyasha, Sengoku Basara, and a few others stand out. Meanwhile other series like, The Slayers and Gundam Seed I'll take either the dub or the original Japanese. Busou Renkin, Mai-Hime and Saint Seiya on the other hand... Japanese only lol so it varies quite a bit. Many other series I could have mentioned on all 3 counts but I didn't want to clutter the post up. It all goes back to opinion and preference

4kids.......uhhhh!!! get that evil off the SerenesForest!!! There evil....turning Riceballs into sandwhiches.