Rate That Pokemon B/W Day 2: Tepig/Pignite/Emboar

[Venusaur]

Rules (adapted from Fire Emblem RTUs and shamelessly stolen and adapted from Knuckles/Folgore Blue/other previous names I can't remember):

- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted. If somebody else said what you want to already, quote them explicitly. You can a bit,

but no SEWADDLE HAS STRING SHOT 10/10.

- This RTU series is for Black and White, not Black 2 and White 2. Don't include anything about the latter.

* +/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is encouraged, but no more. If you exercise your bias privileges, please do so explicitly.

- Votes are made out of 10. You cannot rate a Pokemon above 10 or below 0. Try to keep it easily calculable, for my sake.

- The rating topic will be updated whenever I can (or feel like), but I will try to allow at least 24 hours for each topic. If not enough votes are in, the current ranking continues on the the next day.

- A Pokemon being inferior relative to another Pokemon does not reduce their rating, though it may be mentioned. Just don't factor it into the rating itself.

Remember, it's about what the Pokemon can do.

- HOWEVER, if it locks you out of the other choices (starters and fossils, mainly), up to one point may be deducted.

- If a vote is unacceptable (rule breaking, terrible reasoning, etc.) , I'll give you a chance to revise it, and explain why it was rejected.

- We are rating in-game performance only, up until the Elite 4 is beaten the first time. Trade evolutions are A-OK, as are in-game trades.

- Evolution lines get condensed, so treat, say, Snivy/Servine/Serperior all as one unit.

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Snivy/Servine/Serperior: 4.56

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As a little social experiment, I'm not going to rate it immediately, and see how things pan out of a bit! It's written up, though!

Edited July 9, 2012 by Venusaur

[Icon of Sin]

Quite probably the best starter this generation because it's a Fire/Fighting type. Yes, again, but then again it's also the third mono Grass and Water we get this generation too.

Anyway, he has massive offense on both side of the spectrum, runs moves of various types through his level up moves and TMs while keeping decent bulk thanks to his monstrous HP. His Speed is a bit on the low side, but since he's generally at a higher level than most, it's not as bad, and he even has a move to fix it.

In terms of Fire moves, Flame Charge remains an excellent move through the game since it fixes his biggest flaw, while having good PP and decent power. Heat Crash is a decent alternative, since while 150 kilograms isn't that heavy for competition, in-game most opponents will be quite lighter, giving that move a lot of power even if it's situationnal. In context, this move is more powerful than Flame Charge if the opponent weighs 75 kilograms or less, which is what Crobat and Quagsire weigh. And then there's Flamethrower for the endgame. On the Fighting side of things, Arm Thrust is an excellent move against Sturdy Roggenrolas and Boldores that will plague your existence in caves and against Hikers. By the time you get to Icirrus, Boldores will have mostly vanished, which leaves Brick Break as an excellent STAB move to replace it. Fighting STAB is especially excellent in a game where the villain team mostly uses Normal and Dark types, with the odd Trubbish here and there generally taken care off by his incinerating moves.

Then he has all sorts of moves he can use. Early on as a Pignite, he can use Defense Curl and Rollout, a great tactic against trainers weak to Rock moves. In his TM list, one can notice Scald of all things, a midgame move allowing him to function as a poor man's Water type while keeping two other STABs and can be an alternate way to defeat Sturdy Boldores 30% of the time with one move. He also has a plethora of other options, such as a very strong Return, debilitating Bulldoze, Rock Slide for doubles, Grass Knot as a great secondary move with Heat Crash, Wild Charge and Work Up.

Extremely versatile for many kinds of situations, but especially shines against the frequent encounters with Team Plasma. Fighting STAB goes a long way to make him a lot better.

10/10.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Dio

[I don't play for turns]

The Tepig line is excellent. 110/65/65 defenses after full evolution is certainly not bad at all, putting it on the bulkier side. Also, amazing offenses for great damage capacity. Its primary weakness is its lack of speed, but Flame Charge is excellent for speed boost, and with STAB, and with Pignite/Emboar's amazing attack, it will be a great move. Also, Flamethrower is incredible, as always, and arm thrust is good utility, and brick break is useful too. If you feel like it, you can even get hammer arm with a heart scale, but it isn't always the best choice because it lowers speed. Always somewhat bulky, with great offenses but lacking speed, with a solid offensive movepool, including many I haven't listed. Also, as usual, bad aginst the first gym, good against the next 2, OK against the next, bad against the next 2, good against the next, and should be OK against the next if it stays away from using fire type moves. Bad against Kaitlin, good against Grimsley, bad against Shauntal due to the second type of 3 of her 4 pokemon, OK against Marshal, and fairly succesful against what comes after the E4. My personal favorite among the starters. 9+1=10/10 Points taken away for not-so-great speed, and weaknesses against said gym leaders and members of the Elite Four.

[Ema Skye]

Rocks Lenora and Burgh (first gym is all Monkey). He obliterates Brycen, and has Fighting-type STAB to fall back on for Drayden/Iris.

Does alright in the Elite Four. Rocks Grimsley, hates Caitlyn. Meh against Shauntel, and average against Marshal.

Sweet attacking stats, and is pretty bulky. It's sooooooo slow though.

Movepool is cool (It gets Scald). It's got so many options (Grass Knot, Wild Charge, Fire moves, Fighting moves, Scald, Rock moves, Ground moves, Normal moves and Gyro Ball), so building a moveset is pretty hard (in terms of "What should go on Emboar?".

Its only flaw is its low speed. It's an extremely solid Pokemon.

9/10

[TheVinceKnight]

I did say I hated all the B/W starters, but Tepig isn't too bad.

Speed isn't the best, Flame Charge can boost it up.

Emboar is a beast. That movepool. Typing, again, Fire/Fighting.

Unfortunately in B/W 2 Tepig has trouble with a Water gym at the end, but this is B/W.

8/10 + 1 bias. Okay.

[Fallenite]

gen 5 and its awkward stat spreads. tepig has a somewhat okay earlygame, but he's never really played an important role in my team after that. usually chandelure and scrafty are all i need for fire/fighting coverage, and they also cover ghost/dark, which is a nice plus. until lure comes around, he can stomp around for a bit i guess, but really his stats are so awkward. he's some kind of bulky physical attacker, could go mixed, but mostly physical, except he lacks the defensive stats to back that hp up.

i'll just give him a 3/10 with -1 bias because his design is fucking terrible.

[BBM]

gen 5 and its awkward stat spreads. tepig has a somewhat okay earlygame, but he's never really played an important role in my team after that. usually chandelure and scrafty are all i need for fire/fighting coverage, and they also cover ghost/dark, which is a nice plus. until lure comes around, he can stomp around for a bit i guess, but really his stats are so awkward. he's some kind of bulky physical attacker, could go mixed, but mostly physical, except he lacks the defensive stats to back that hp up.

i'll just give him a 3/10 with -1 bias because his design is fucking terrible.

haha what

[Fallenite]

all the starters are pretty forgettable and needless in bw

[Smiley Jim]

Tepig is considered to be the best of the three starters, but he does have some flaws.

First off, Tepig has some pretty nice offense. 123atk/100spa(as Emboar)along with dual Fire/Fighting STAB is actually really fucking good, though 65 speed is pretty awful. Granted, he can boost it with Flame Charge(which he gets at Lv15, before the second gym), but let's face it: it hurts. Defensively, 65 in either defense is god awful considering his speed, but 110 HP can make this Pokemon surprisingly durable if administered some defensive X items.

I'm going to be quite honest, Fire and Fighting have good type matchups throughout Unova, being effective against three gyms(Lenora, Burgh, and Riku), awful in two(Clay and Skyla), and neutral against everything else(Technically, Tepig isn't bad against electricity, but Elesa has two Emonga so yeah.) Emboar also performs excellently against N and Ghetsts's teams offensively(defensively, that's another story), and that's not counting all the grunts who like using Watchogs and dark types.

Another thing of note is the line's poor learnbase of good fighting moves. Pignite only gets one Fighting move through level up(Arm Thrust)and is stuck with that or Rock Smash until the Brick Break TM shows up(honorable mention goes to Hammer Arm, which is 33% more powerful than BB, but drop's Emboar's already piss speed.) As for his coverage moves, he gets Scald for some reason, but other than that, he gets Grass Knot fairly early, and Wild Charge comes late, but makes use of his higher attack stat and hits Waters just the same as GK.

Tepig's line in a nutshell: Very, very strong, but slow as balls and has a poor selection of Fighting moves before Iccarus.

8

Edited July 9, 2012 by Mercenary James

[Ema Skye]

@Fallenite:

I could see someone saying that about Snivy, but to say that about Tepig and Oshawott? Really?

Tepig's got a massive movepool, 100% availability and has the best mixed attacking stats out of all Unova Fire-types, but it's slow and only reasonably bulky. 110 base HP is all you need to be bulky (higher HP is better than having Higher Defenses, as higher HP lets you take more attacks)

Darmanitan trainwrecks Burgh (Pignite can do it too though), has lots of speed but meh defenses and a limited movepool due to unusable 30 base attack (Flare Blitz, Bulldoze (which is better than EQ due to Sheer Force), Rock Slide and Return are all it has for offense, which is admittedly pretty good coverage, but not as good as Emboar's).

Chandy misses the first 5 gyms, has special attack out the wazoo, evolves super late (Dusk Stone comes after the last gym), and has a movepool similar to Darmanitan's (Fire Blast, Shadow Ball and Psychic, since Energy Ball is post-E4). 60/90/90 defenses are okay.

Simisear is a faster, frailer Emboar without the Fighting-type. It's got a pretty diverse movepool, and has 1st gym utility.

Heatmor tries to be like Simisear, but is slower with better offensive stats, and is barely bulkier. You're not getting this until Victory Road though, which is super late, and it's probably joining underlevelled. Tiny movepool too.

Volcarona is pretty hard to get pre-E4, but it can easily trivialize them. Up to you to decide if its worth it (usually it isn't).

I'm keeping this focused on Emboar, because it's their day today. If you still feel the same about Oshwott, I'll do the same thing. I think you're letting your opinion on Emboar's forgettable-ness mix with your opinion on Chandelure, but I'm not Venusaur so it doesn't matter what I think.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Lucina

[Fallenite]

statistically it isn't that bad, but the defenses just aren't worth it imo. he lacks speed, but i guess that can be covered with uh, that fire move that ups speed, flame charge iirc, but he doesn't have the defenses at all to back up the ton of weaknesses fire/fighting brings. offensively it can be a powerhouse, but it's just not tankish enough to be that slow.

[Icon of Sin]

evolves super late (Dusk Stone comes after the last gym)

Minor nitpick, but there's a Dusk Stone in the 3rd floor of Mistralton Cave, so it can evolve a bit after Skyla's gym if you feel like it.

[Breezy Kanzaki]

Tepig is considered to be the best of the three starters, but he does have some flaws.

First off, Tepig has some pretty nice offense. 123atk/100spa(as Emboar)along with dual Fire/Fighting STAB is actually really fucking good, though 65 speed is pretty awful. Granted, he can boost it with Flame Charge(which he gets at Lv15, before the second gym), but let's face it: it hurts. Defensively, 65 in either defense is god awful considering his speed, but 110 HP can make this Pokemon surprisingly durable if administered some defensive X items.

I'm going to be quite honest, Fire and Fighting have good type matchups throughout Unova, being effective against three gyms(Lenora, Burgh, and Riku), awful in two(Clay and Skyla), and neutral against everything else(Technically, Tepig isn't bad against electricity, but Elesa has two Emonga so yeah.) Emboar also performs excellently against N and Ghetsts's teams offensively(defensively, that's another story), and that's not counting all the grunts who like using Watchogs and dark types.

Another thing of note is the line's poor learnbase of good fighting moves. Pignite only gets one Fighting move through level up(Arm Thrust)and is stuck with that or Rock Smash until the Brick Break TM shows up(honorable mention goes to Hammer Arm, which is 33% more powerful than BB, but drop's Emboar's already piss speed.) As for his coverage moves, he gets Scald for some reason, but other than that, he gets Grass Knot fairly early, and Wild Charge comes late, but makes use of his higher attack stat and hits Waters just the same as GK.

Tepig's line in a nutshell: Very, very strong, but slow as balls and has a poor selection of Fighting moves before Iccarus.

8

This, but -1 for bias because Fire/Fighting is over used, so 7/10

[Ema Skye]

Minor nitpick, but there's a Dusk Stone in the 3rd floor of Mistralton Cave, so it can evolve a bit after Skyla's gym if you feel like it.

Really? That's cool. I've never found it. I guess you learn something every day.

[BBM]

It still needs to be level 41 though, to evolve to Lampent first. So it's not evolving until around Drayden in any case.

[ZemZem]

Rocks Lenora and Burgh (first gym is all Monkey). He obliterates Brycen, and has Fighting-type STAB to fall back on for Drayden/Iris.

Does alright in the Elite Four. Rocks Grimsley, hates Caitlyn. Meh against Shauntel, and average against Marshal.

Sweet attacking stats, and is pretty bulky. It's sooooooo slow though.

Movepool is cool (It gets Scald). It's got so many options (Grass Knot, Wild Charge, Fire moves, Fighting moves, Scald, Rock moves, Ground moves, Normal moves and Gyro Ball), so building a moveset is pretty hard (in terms of "What should go on Emboar?".

Its only flaw is its low speed. It's an extremely solid Pokemon.

9/10

[Xeniferos]

Tepig is considered to be the best of the three starters, but he does have some flaws.

First off, Tepig has some pretty nice offense. 123atk/100spa(as Emboar)along with dual Fire/Fighting STAB is actually really fucking good, though 65 speed is pretty awful. Granted, he can boost it with Flame Charge(which he gets at Lv15, before the second gym), but let's face it: it hurts. Defensively, 65 in either defense is god awful considering his speed, but 110 HP can make this Pokemon surprisingly durable if administered some defensive X items.

I'm going to be quite honest, Fire and Fighting have good type matchups throughout Unova, being effective against three gyms(Lenora, Burgh, and Riku), awful in two(Clay and Skyla), and neutral against everything else(Technically, Tepig isn't bad against electricity, but Elesa has two Emonga so yeah.) Emboar also performs excellently against N and Ghetsts's teams offensively(defensively, that's another story), and that's not counting all the grunts who like using Watchogs and dark types.

Another thing of note is the line's poor learnbase of good fighting moves. Pignite only gets one Fighting move through level up(Arm Thrust)and is stuck with that or Rock Smash until the Brick Break TM shows up(honorable mention goes to Hammer Arm, which is 33% more powerful than BB, but drop's Emboar's already piss speed.) As for his coverage moves, he gets Scald for some reason, but other than that, he gets Grass Knot fairly early, and Wild Charge comes late, but makes use of his higher attack stat and hits Waters just the same as GK.

Tepig's line in a nutshell: Very, very strong, but slow as balls and has a poor selection of Fighting moves before Iccarus.

8

This, but -1 for bias because Fire/Fighting is over used, so 7/10

Agree with everything mentioned in both of these. I personally can't stand Tepig's evolution designs, so that's where my -1 bias comes in.

7/10

Edited July 9, 2012 by Xjezhekiir

[Venusaur]

gen 5 and its awkward stat spreads. tepig has a somewhat okay earlygame, but he's never really played an important role in my team after that. usually chandelure and scrafty are all i need for fire/fighting coverage, and they also cover ghost/dark, which is a nice plus. until lure comes around, he can stomp around for a bit i guess, but really his stats are so awkward. he's some kind of bulky physical attacker, could go mixed, but mostly physical, except he lacks the defensive stats to back that hp up.

i'll just give him a 3/10 with -1 bias because his design is fucking terrible.

Was quite busy yesterday and forgot about this , but hey, this vote really isn't acceptable. Remember, don't dock points based on "Well, I usually just use X", vote based on what the Pokemon of the day can do across the entire game. Your reasoning isn't the best, either (going mixed is not a bad thing to be able to do) And hey, if it "stomps around" until Chandelure, looks like it's stomping around on 3/4 of the game!

Don't worry, you'll get a chance to redo it, I'll just put a little * next to the Tepig number in the OP so that I'll remember it.

[Shadow Mir]

7.5/10. Good attacking stats and HP. Pretty slow, however, but to be fair, Samurott's not much better off in that regard.

[Venusaur]

7.5/10. Good attacking stats and HP. Pretty slow, however, but to be fair, Samurott's not much better off in that regard.

Well, you managed to squeak in, since I was just about to finish making Day 3!