eCut Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Okay! So we have three options now: 1. The comp. winner decides what rule set to use. So whoever wins competition #60 will choose the three mugshots&the rule set, then whoever wins #61 will choose for #62, and so forth. 2. The comp. runner always decides which rule set to use. Whoever runs the competition will decide each week if they want to use the new rules or old ones. 3. The rules will rotate each week. Added this one even though it was not suggested; each week the rule set will changed (with even numbers being the new rule set and odd numbers being the old rule set). e.g. Week #60 will use the new, #61 will use old, and so forth. Pick one and explain why you picked it! Poll closes on July 20th. Whichever one wins will be used without further discussion so that the competition can get up and running post-haste. ----- I picked the last one. That way both rule sets are guaranteed to be used, satisfying both ends. Edited July 17, 2012 by eCut Forgot the poll. ^_^ ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) #2 Because I think the old rules were just fine, and that the comp runner will be intelligent enough to continue to use them. Edited July 17, 2012 by seph1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzz94 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 None of the comp. entrants or runners had issues with the rules. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Glenn Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) I think a better phrasing for option number two would be to simply state that the runner has full control over facets of the competition, not just deciding the ruleset. If competitors want to change it up for a few rounds, the runner could change the setup to be Winner's Choice for those rounds, and then, could go back to deciding the rulesets themselves (if they would ever want to change the ruleset from what they originally pick, that is) after those few rounds have finished. That being said, I find Option #2 to be the best; limiting a "good spriter" to more restrictive measures just to "level the playing fields" is absolutely silly. How do you think the "good spriters" got that way in the first place? By practicing and eventually doing the stuff that they're currently able to do and manipulate. As has been said, these competitions are not about winning, they're about improving one's skills, challenging one's abilities, and having fun. Should you happen to win, that's a bonus. So, should people wish to do special, limited competitions with the new rules, that's fine and dandy. But, as the previous two posts pointed out, there really wasn't anything wrong to begin with. Besides, even if the rules are more limited, that's not suddenly going to make the "good spriters" worse; their abilities and talent will still shine through and this whole argument will inevitably start up again down the road when people still complain that they're being outclassed. The solution here is that people need to stop feeling entitled and need to actually work, learn, and improve like everyone else has done; if they do, then they'll actually progressively gain the skills that they're apparently far too envious of. Edited July 17, 2012 by Lord Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstraLunaSol Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Comp runner decides which ruleset to use. Let there be 2 competitions if people wish it to be so. Edited July 17, 2012 by AstraLunaSol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eCut Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 I think a better phrasing for option number two would be to simply state that the runner has full control over facets of the competition, not just deciding the ruleset. If competitors want to change it up for a few rounds, the runner could change the setup to be Winner's Choice for those rounds, and then, could go back to deciding the rulesets themselves (if they would ever want to change the ruleset from what they originally pick, that is) after those few rounds have finished. That being said, I find Option #2 to be the best; limiting a "good spriter" to more restrictive measures just to "level the playing fields" is absolutely silly. How do you think the "good spriters" got that way in the first place? By practicing and eventually doing the stuff that they're currently able to do and manipulate. As has been said, these competitions are not about winning, they're about improving one's skills, challenging one's abilities, and having fun. Should you happen to win, that's a bonus. So, should people wish to do special, limited competitions with the new rules, that's fine and dandy. But, as the previous two posts pointed out, there really wasn't anything wrong to begin with. Besides, even if the rules are more limited, that's not suddenly going to make the "good spriters" worse; their abilities and talent will still shine through and this whole argument will inevitably start up again down the road when people still complain that they're being outclassed. The solution here is that people need to stop feeling entitled and need to actually work, learn, and improve like everyone else has done; if they do, then they'll actually progressively gain the skills that they're apparently far too envious of. More than true. The new rules aren't going to limit the veterans or "level the playing fields". However, a lot of people were complaining and wanted new rules and such so we are giving them that option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Option two, it's all been said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawman Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I picked the 3rd one cause I like the idea of variation. The runner picking could very well only pick the same thing over and over which seems pointless to me if they pick the old rules continuously because then what was the point to all of this, so I'd like the new rules to be used at least some of the time. At least if they go with the old rules some aspects of them should be enforced more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mew Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) I voted pretty early on for 'winner chooses,' but people have brought up some pretty good points against it in this thread, so I switched my vote to 'runner decides'. I was all for rewarding the winner with a bit more power, but at the same time that sort of steers in the opposite direction of where the competition should be going--it's about improving, and if you're making a sprite to win then you're silly. The third option is completely viable too, and may take some of the weight of deciding this off of the runners' shoulders so they wouldn't be subject to criticism about which rulesets they pick and when. Edited July 18, 2012 by Mewiyev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Comp runner should be the one calling the shots when it comes to the rules i think. As long as they are far to all involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astelaine Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I agree with Lord Glenn 100%. If someone thinks the old rules are unfair, the ball's in their court to start a competition with the ruleset they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramy Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Going 2 cause just like what fuzz said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) I agree with Lord Glenn 100%. If someone thinks the old rules are unfair, the ball's in their court to start a competition with the ruleset they want. Having too many similar comps running at the same time with different rulesets is a problem of its own; it's SF, but this is still a niche section of our community. Spreading it thin is not the ideal plan of action, to say the least. It's not up to any one person to fix problems that arise within a community. "Go make your own" is a weak solution. The community coming together and working on it in a way that is fair to a point that most everyone, regardless of their stance on this subject, can enjoy is a much more wholesome one. Like I said in the original ticket, I hate the idea of trying to force people to play under rules that are decided for them by outside entities. I think the person running the competition should decide the rules for it. But it goes both ways. As far as I'm concerned it's also their responsibility to take into account the fact that there are people who are unhappy with the way they've worked in the past, and perhaps mix it up a little sometimes. I'd go as far as to say this poll and topic of discussion wouldn't even exist had that been done. The bigger picture is being missed entirely. If this ends in a "whatever wins is what will be" result (and it is painfully clear that it's headed in a direction of little progress), the real meaning behind it is wasted. Obviously the community is divided in what should happen and it doesn't matter how much of a majority says the opposite. This should bring to light the fact that some people would like the rules and restrictions to be changed up every now and then, not how many people don't vs how many people do. Besides, even if the rules are more limited, that's not suddenly going to make the "good spriters" worse; their abilities and talent will still shine through and this whole argument will inevitably start up again down the road when people still complain that they're being outclassed. The solution here is that people need to stop feeling entitled and need to actually work, learn, and improve like everyone else has done; if they do, then they'll actually progressively gain the skills that they're apparently far too envious of. The biggest complaints I got about those types of submissions were not from people jealous of anyone's work, but from people who do not believe what was being submitted was a splice, as I said in the ticket. SquareRootofPi was one of the first people who brought it to my attention originally (inb4 he madfaces me for bringing him up), and he was quite detailed in his dissection of those submissions and why they were not splices despite people's (sometimes aggressive) defense of them, and the proof pictures posted only served to annoy/amuse (couldn't tell half the time!) him further. So it is clearly not fair to label anyone who is against those submissions as simply "jealous" or "outclassed". It wouldn't be fair regardless of whether or not someone like him had been among them. In the end it's a game for fun and personal progression, and there really shouldn't be this much drama surrounding it. I don't have the authority or desire to tell anyone what to do, but my advice as someone who has to deal with situations like this on the forum near-daily, is to listen to what the people who view and participate in this section have to say - regardless of who they are and whether or not x friend you talk to every day agrees with them - and make a more serious attempt to host the competitions in a way that will make everyone happy. Edited July 19, 2012 by Tangerine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampire Elf Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) @Tangerine: I find it funny that you bring up Pi, because as new information reveals, he and Noetherianring are in fact the same person and NOE had splices in comps back on FEND that were far more than simple. So this really does confuse me a little. That said, I'd just like to say to the spriters, self regulate, if you feel you're going overboard in the customization, pull it back, or if you're too far gone, keep it in mind for the next one you enter. For me, I try to keep the customization to tidying toward the end, and I've done videos that show this, I think using tiny bits to make an outline does have a place, but should be used more sparsely, for example I wouldn't call Chars man from the little girl set a proper splice, but to be perfectly honest, if it's not happening all the time, I find stuff like that usually draws positive attention and a higher influx of viewers and voters, I just recon that if we're all a bit more laid back towards this stuff we'd probably have less drama, for me I know it's not about winning, I enjoy spriting, so I do it, and the biggest part is having a finished product I'm happy with, the main reason I post sprites on a community is so that I can get CC on them to iron out the flaws and make myself happier with them, validation from others is nice, but if you can stare at your sprites with unbiased eyes and be really proud of it, then that's a good thing, so to sum up, if we all just chill a bit and if us spriters keep these complaint in mind for future stuff, well probably have a nicer environment to share our work. Edited July 21, 2012 by Vampire Elf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eCut Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 Ou I left it open a day later cause I wasn't here... Ou I am bad. Omg I am going to be banned now... Aaaaah. So the option to let the runner decide each week which rule set to use won by a long shot. Vamp, are you still running the competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deleted35362 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) So basically, we went through all this trouble just to continue doing the same thing? How constructive. Can we get back on track? Edited July 22, 2012 by April Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampire Elf Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I'm happy to do it if Amelia doesn't want to, she usually ran it, I just did one cause of Aussie time zone impatience and then I ended up running the last few lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I am okay with Vampie running it. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eCut Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Locked since no further discussion is needed. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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