Does this game have any "bad" units?

[Othin]

Ein, I started an FE12 Lunatic playthrough today and am currently laughing at it. No, this is nothing like FE12 Lunatic.

I have a feeling we're going to reach a point in time where the majority of kids are considered bad on the basis that they won't exist without grinding.

Except they do.

[Ein]

I have a feeling we're going to reach a point in time where the majority of kids are considered bad on the basis that they won't exist without grinding.

teehee

Ein, I started an FE12 Lunatic playthrough today and am currently laughing at it. No, this is nothing like FE12 Lunatic.

Except they do.

lulz

I thought Lunatic in FE12 kick you in the face then stole your lunch money then cut your Achilles tendon just because. Unless people figured out a way to make it a cake walk.

I dunno man. You are aware just how efficient crazy drafters are right?

[FrostyFireMage]

I see the harder difficulty modes are completely devoid of fun and force you to use the most boring units in the game as usual.

[Leif]

I see the harder difficulty modes are completely devoid of fun and force you to use the most boring units in the game as usual.

Well the fun of Lunatic is to overcome almost impossible odds. :)

[CrashGordon94]

I see the harder difficulty modes are completely devoid of fun and force you to use the most boring units in the game as usual.

That's really how it sounds to me, honestly...

Though they seem to have their fans.

[Ike of Paris]

I remember people in that "Scrappies" thread crapping on Brady, but he is easily fixed with good growths via Donny and makes the whole "Battle Monk" thing usable.

[StrategistPockystix]

I remember people in that "Scrappies" thread crapping on Brady, but he is easily fixed with good growths via Donny and makes the whole "Battle Monk" thing usable.

wow, that's a lesson for the kids

you suck, unless you have the right parents lol

[arvilino]

I see the harder difficulty modes are completely devoid of fun and force you to use the most boring units in the game as usual.

The reason I enjoy them is that they put the players strategy to the test and makes them make the most out of the game mechanics in order to succeed.

[Othin]

lulz

I thought Lunatic in FE12 kick you in the face then stole your lunch money then cut your Achilles tendon just because. Unless people figured out a way to make it a cake walk.

I dunno man. You are aware just how efficient crazy drafters are right?

Nope. Not so far, anyway. The enemies don't have the hyper-aggressive AI they do in FE13, so it's easy to slow down and carefully cut through them in reliable ways.

The main issue is exactly what I suspected: FE12 doesn't have enough options. Because you can't do a whole lot more than take on the enemies in simple combat, they have to be weak enough to take on in simple combat, leaving simple ways to cut them down. You don't have skills and Double and all that stuff to worry about like in FE13, fighting off additional characteristics enemies can have and manipulating your own added tricks. Although perhaps I should get a bit farther before judging it.

I should mention that I'm playing this basically blind. Don't care what drafters do because they almost exclusively use a playstyle I despite. To me, games are something to play, not something to perform.

I see the harder difficulty modes are completely devoid of fun and force you to use the most boring units in the game as usual.

Not in the slightest; they're really great and require massive amounts of teamwork and tactics. The later characters join with huge stat bonuses to be highly effective, and you have a ton of more options in the form of past-game characters that you can recruit when you're ready to challenge them. Although you're right that there are a number of earlygame characters - particularly Sol and Soiree - who are only briefly useful and lack staying power because of inability to grow.

Children characters probably also have issues, but it depends. I was able to get Lucina to be highly effective, but it did take some time.

[four loose screws]

The thing about the children characters is that they rely 100% on their parents. If you level up both of their parents well and get a good mix of skills and stats for the child to have upon recruiting, then the kids can come right in and rip everything apart. Leave one parent out of the the training, though, and you'll need to spend time leveling them up, something you probably won't want to bother with considering how late in the game you recruit them. Their re-classing options can definitely be a great boon - they get options from both parents, giving them more options than any of the first gen characters save MU.

It takes a bit of planning to use the children characters, in short, but any of them can easily outclass the first gen characters if they can get great starting stats/skills.

Granted, I haven't played anything past normal mode yet.

[Anouleth]

Not in the slightest; they're really great and require massive amounts of teamwork and tactics. The later characters join with huge stat bonuses to be highly effective, and you have a ton of more options in the form of past-game characters that you can recruit when you're ready to challenge them. Although you're right that there are a number of earlygame characters - particularly Sol and Soiree - who are only briefly useful and lack staying power because of inability to grow.

I would have thought that Sol and Soiree would be pretty decent... Discipline seems like a great skill.

[arvilino]

I would have thought that Sol and Soiree would be pretty decent... Discipline seems like a great skill.

In Lunatic they're in a way too average to perform nearly as well as other Cavalier duos do. I did use Soiree up to chapter 16 in my 2nd Lunatic Run though(she got an S-rank support with Cullum), though it did rest on the fact Discipline lets her make use of the higher ranked weapons you can get from the glowing spaces, fame menu or the Spotpass Legendary weapons earlier than other units(excluding Frederick).

Sol is even worse off because he starts off getting double-attacked by enemies and the characters early on that boost speed a decent amount with the double command(Krom, MU,Sumia) are needed or better off doing other stuff than boosting him up whereas there's more characters that boost STR and/or DEF which Soiree could make use of because she's fast enough.

[Titamon]

Will doubling Sol with Soiree help him in way?

At least until he lets that 60% Def growth kick in

Edited July 28, 2012 by Psycho Silver

[Othin]

Will doubling Sol with Soiree help him in way?

At least until he lets that 60% Def growth kick in

No. The bonuses are nothing special, and growths will never kick in because they can't fight. Leave the two of them alone together with a single full-HP enemy and they'll both end up dead.

[Dark Sage]

Ein, I started an FE12 Lunatic playthrough today and am currently laughing at it. No, this is nothing like FE12 Lunatic.

How far are you? It gets really hard later on. No seriously, FE12 Lunatic isn't like other FEs where it's hardest at the beginning and is pretty easy late in the game. FE12 is difficult at the beginning (to me anyway), has a couple of easy maps in the middle of the game and can get really ridiculous from Chapter 14 on.

Plus there's Lunatic Reverse. I wonder how that mode compares to FE13 Lunatic/Lunatic+

[Othin]

Looks like I'll have to play farther. That does sound like it fits the FE13 pattern, except with the "couple of easy maps" that FE13 really never has. Although replaying the early maps on Lunatic+, I think I'd find them not as difficult on a second playthrough of Lunatic. But I presume we're speaking from moderately different standards anyway.

I'm also interested in trying Lunatic Reverse, but I don't think FE12 could get as much of a difficulty increase from that compared to Lunatic as FE13 does with Lunatic+. Lunatic+ adds two skills; one can be Vantage+, getting the same bonus, but with a second skill as well. And Vantage+ is honestly on the lower end of Lunatic+ skills. Counter, Great Shield+, and Holy Shield+ are far scarier, and Pass often is as well.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Othin

[Dark Sage]

I don't know, Lunatic Reverse does really boost the difficulty of Lunatic, particularly in some lategame maps. Some of the tactics that work in Lunatic just don't work in Lunatic Reverse. For example, some of the Sorcerers have forged Glower (aka Luna) tomes and can have 46 attack while ignoring defense with them. In Lunatic, you can kill them without taking a counter by using a really strong Berserker with a Brave Axe or a Swordmaster/Sniper with their forged Brave weapon but you can't do that in Lunatic Reverse. And these Glower Sorcerers are often mixed in with Berserkers (who've capped everything but def/res/luck and have like 45-48 attack sometimes at 1-2 range), 27 AS Fire Dragons (who are more durable), Mage Dragons, and Sorcerers with forged Meteors along with reinforcements and surviving can get a lot harder.

It's not at the level of Lunatic+ obviously (who have enemies that go "lol i only take half damage from you now") but I think the level of the difficulty increase is pretty similar.

[Diortem]

So, I am getting the Impression that, while some units require a bit more planning than others, pretty much any unit can be useful given the right amount of time, and there are no Lyres or Sophias or Wendys in this game? Is it safe to assume that at least?

[arvilino]

So, I am getting the Impression that, while some units require a bit more planning than others, pretty much any unit can be useful given the right amount of time, and there are no Lyres or Sophias or Wendys in this game? Is it safe to assume that at least?

Yeah, no one unit is impossible to train(with Donny being a sort of exception dependant on the difficulty, but coming between chapter 3 and chapter 4 and having the good growth skill) or horrible compared to others while ending up mediocre. The main reason is, maybe excluding Henry, on the higher difficulties every character that joins later on is stronger in comparison to the regular enemies than the earlier characters(and more importantly not starting weaker than the previous characters).

Edited August 9, 2012 by arvilino

[cheetah7071]

How far are you? It gets really hard later on. No seriously, FE12 Lunatic isn't like other FEs where it's hardest at the beginning and is pretty easy late in the game. FE12 is difficult at the beginning (to me anyway), has a couple of easy maps in the middle of the game and can get really ridiculous from Chapter 14 on.

Plus there's Lunatic Reverse. I wonder how that mode compares to FE13 Lunatic/Lunatic+

The only map I recall being harder than chapters 1-5 in FE12 was chapter 19. The strategy certainly changes, from extremely turtly strategies being rewarded early on to extremely offensive strategies being rewarded later, but almost any chapter before MU promotes is harder than almost any chapter after.