Am I the only one that didn't like The Dark Knight Rises?

[Roosterofdoom]

I mean, I know I'm not the only one. Me and one of my friends had a rather lengthy bashfest on Facebook. But did anyone else not like it?

I'll copy/paste the exchange if someone wants to see it. But it's pretty long.

[Gold Vanguard]

The Joker didn't like it. So your not alone.

[CrashGordon94]

Well, I liked it but I had some issues with it. Does that count?

[NinjaMonkey]

Considering this thread is entitled "Am I the only one that didn't like The Dark Knight Rises?", I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, no, it doesn't.

[CrashGordon94]

Considering this thread is entitled "Am I the only one that didn't like The Dark Knight Rises?", I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, no, it doesn't.

I'll accept that if I hear it from the TC, thank you ver much!

[dondon151]

It has its pacing problems, but it's solid overall.

[buttmuncher.ops]

only problem i had was that they took some liberties with the lore, but that's about it

in the end i think it was more of a new genfag fan pleaser movie anyway, so don't feel too bad. overall i liked it, because i'm an anne hathaway fan and she was too sexi

[Constable Reggie]

I thought it was pretty entertaining, with the one exception being

(big spoiler, don't open if you haven't seen)

Bane gets hyped up to be a huge bamf, then gets tossed aside in some bullshit plot twist

That part really bugged me.

[Roosterofdoom]

I'll accept that if I hear it from the TC, thank you ver much!

Yeah, no. I'm asking if anyone straight up didn't like it.

[Constable Reggie]

I'm curious, what didn't you like about the movie?

[Roosterofdoom]

Are you asking for the whole conversation, or a summary?

[Constable Reggie]

A summary, I guess. Unless someone else here wants to see the whole thing, I dunno.

[Guy Starwind]

I liked it better than the last one. Overall I thought it was above average.

[Original Alear]

Even if you summarize it, why not put the whole discussion in spoilers? Seems like that would be less effort than rereading and reiterating the points, even if in brief.

[Strawman]

I loved it and thought it was pretty amazing...but I can see why some people didn't like it, as with most things.

[Roosterofdoom]

Okay, well my main problems:

1. Why wasn't Batman in the Batman movie? He was in 3 scenes. The first one went nowhere, the second was cool, but so un-Batman, and the third was just... kinda boring.

2. The movie never decided what it wanted to be about. First scene Bane is this super-genius with a team of loyal "brothers" that will die for him just because he asks them to. Next scene he crushes one of his men's throat for talking. Then we have that Dagget guy, who looks like he'll be Bruce's enemy while Bane is Batman's. But nope. Bane kills him. It just felt like a mess of events with not much tying them together.

3. The 37 twists at the end. What was up with that? I don't think I need to explain that one. But the one that bothered me most was how we find out Bane wasn't the Big Bad, and we have this new girl to deal with. And then she's taken care of in 5 minutes. It wasn't even necessary.

[Constable Reggie]

1) I thought this was pretty well handled. Imo, Batman isn't really that interesting to be constantly in the spotlight, especially after TDK did that. Less Batman let the movie focus more on Bruce Wayne, which was definitely a good call considering this is the third movie. The Bane vs Batman fighting scene was I thought also really well handled: Batman's unstoppable combat maneuvers from Begins and TDK won't work on Bane, who hands him his own ass and sends him to a hellish prison. It gives Batman/Bruce Wayne a way to "rise" (hurhur) to the occassion, where in TDK he was really just unstoppable the entire time. It's not just about Batman in this film (like TDK was), it's also about Bruce Wayne, which gives a sense of tying back to Begins.

2) Is the scene you're talking about the one where Gordon jumps into the sewer water? If it is, I think that was to signify Bane's brutal methods, in contrast to Joker's sneaky, underhanded ways (pretending to be dead to get to a mob boss? what a dick move). Bane is an unstoppable goliath and he will not stand for idiots who screw his plan up. As for Dagget, well, I guess he was just a means to an end for Bane.

3) I completely agree with you on this point.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Davinatorman

[Roosterofdoom]

All right, I'll just do both. This is the whole conversation from Facebook. Kinda lengthy.

Friend (John)

MAYBE SOME SPOILERS?

The biggest reason I don't like it is because Batman is SO USELESS and there's SO LITTLE OF HIM.

You wait forever through the beginning of the film with everyone acting out of character or a lot of characters and plot lines being introduced way too fast, and when there finally is some Batman, the film doesn't focus on him and he gets totally rocked. TOTALLY rocked. And then you wait EVEN LONGER for him to come back and he's only useful because he has a super plane! The movie was way too much about Bruce Wayne, and Christian Bale is not a very good Bruce Wayne. Though I blame the script for a lot of that.

Bane was a waste of a character. Before his last couple of scenes, oh man, he's SO COOL (when you can understand him, and yes, that is definitely a problem), but...how he leaves the movie...is almost like, disrespectful to the character. Actually, it IS. But I want to stay spoiler free.

This movie is also Deus Ex Machina City, USA. It gets really ridiculous, cliche, and just dumb, especially in regards to Catwoman and Batman. It reinforces my first point. Or like...Alfred hearing a really helpful and specific piece of information going around "through a rumor", and it's such a weak explanation of how he would POSSIBLY KNOW THAT.

This movie is full of twists, and all of them are unsatisfying and feel really forced. And then, towards the end, they're downright useless. Seriously, it makes me mad how many twists they think they needed.

And lastly for now, the ending is DUMB AND STUPID AND MAKES NO SENSE.

Me: (Me)

Wow, you actually did it. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. To everything. My main problems:

1. Why wasn't Batman in the Batman movie? He's in like 3 scenes total. The firs one was pointless. The second was awesome, but so un-Batman. And the last one was the end, and... oh god the end.

2. This movie never decided what it wanted to be about. First scene, Bane is this super-genius with followers that are willing to die for him because they have crazy amounts of respect for him and he calls them "Brother". I thought that was awesome. Next scene he crushes a guy's windpipe for talking. Then we have this Dagget guy, who looks like he's going to be Bruce's enemy, while Bane is Batman's. But then, nope. That's taken care of. Then after Batman gets utterly whooped (is this a spoiler?), he trains by himself for 4 months, comes back, and completely destroys Bane. How. What did he do dfferent? Why can he suddenly come back after 8 years of no sort of physical activity and beat this guy that could've beat him in his prime? Never explained. And oh god, the end.

3. This is the last movie in a trilogy that everyone loves. The last time we're going to see this Batman rise up to a new threat and defeat it. But it doesn't feel like that. At all. It feels like a follow-up to The Dark Knight. Or like a prologue to a new movie. The Joker completely messed up Gotham and made it his playground, then Bane just came and said "Yeah. This city is mine now." And he turns the whole city into the most messed up thing I've ever seen. Then Batman shows up and everything is solved in 15 minutes. Clearly they need a lot more time to restore Gotham to what it was. And... oh god, the end. What the hell, Nolan. What the hell.

John:

I definitely agree about the identity crisis in the movie.

Here's another huge huge problem I had: The relationship between Selina and Bruce is stupider than Anakin and Padme's. WHY DO YOU LIKE THIS PERSON? Because they kissed you ONCE? Why are you totally okay with them doing something totally against what you stand for like five times?

As for the second fight and Batman somehow being dominant, everyone says that it's because he took out Bane's mask. But why didn't he try to aim for that before? Didn't he think it would be important? Why does Bane not take extra measures to defend something so crucial to his life?

And the ending is so...well, irresponsible of Batman. I mean, yeah, it works out well for Gotham THEN but...what about later? It's very un-Spider-Man of Batman to do what he did. Also it's stupid and dumb and what the Hell HOW?

There's also the matter of JGL's character at the end, and the whole "name" thing. We're not stupid, Nolan. It was extremely forced and unnecessary.

Me:

Very un-Spider-Man indeed. What he did was impossible. Not unrealistic, not unlikey; impossible. I'm glad someone else hated it. I thought I was alone here. I think I hated it as much as Sucker Punch.

John:

I kind of feel bad for really not liking it. I really wanted to like it, but the problems are way too obvious for me to look past them.

I will say this: Tom Hardy and Anne Hathaway did amazing jobs. And oh man, Anne Hathaway is super hot.

Brother: (Josh)

What's un-Batman-like about the second Bat scene?

Me:

Teaming up with this person he clearly shouldn't have trusted to go fist-fight a guy 3 times bigger than himself with no discernible plan after 8 years without training. It was dumb. And seeing him get destroyed like that, along with Bane showing that he pretty much owns him now afterwards was totally unlike the guy that took on an entire building full of Joker's men, along with SWAT teams that were coming after him, with enough time left after to bash The Joker's face in a little at the end of The Dark Knight. I know that was the point, but still.

Josh:

Well yeah, he got complacent in eight years of peace. Bane even says this. And she hadn't exactly made it known that she was totally untrustworthy, just that she had an affection for thievery. He thought he could give her something she needed, and underestimated her fear. And then, of course, neither Joker's men nor the SWAT teams were trained by the League of Shadows so that's not really much of a reason why Bane couldn't destroy him.

And then, of course, the fact that he literally said "he was trained by Ra's and I beat Ra's."

And also, the multiple mentions that he very much might have WANTED to die.

Me:

Sure, all of that is true. I'm not trying to say none of it made sense. My problem is this is the last movie in the trilogy, and instead of seeing Batman get better and better, rising up to stop an enemy better than the last one, we have Batsy drop off completely and have to rise all the way back to where he was. Which is a cool idea, but not for the last movie.

And even seeing him do that was boring. 4 months of sit-ups and push-ups? That's all it takes? Just not what I wanted to see in the last movie.

Josh:

Sit-ups are magic.

I might also mention that after getting your ass stomped, coming back to thoroughly destroy the man who broke you is pretty much the definition of getting better and better. That and that the exercise was not actually the important part of his "training." It was a state of mind.

[buttmuncher.ops]

if you were a true detective / fan of the series you would have recognized from the get go that

amanda tate was ras al ghul's daughter natalia, and her interest in the reactor was fishy. the only problem here concerning your 3rd point is that yes, bane IS an assassin in the lore, but in no way ever tied to natalia's original story

p.s. dagget in the animated series was always just a little fish in gotham's pool, like a splinter to batman / bruce, so i don't know why you expected him to do much as just the financial paper pusher

Edited July 30, 2012 by CrossKnightsAtFortSilvail

[Anouleth]

I was disappointed that Joseph Dreamboat-Levitt spent like the whole movie with his dick in his hand. Helping orphans escape? Seriously? If he's going to be the next Batman, he better spend the whole movie kicking butt and taking names. And that bit where he was all "I figured out you were Batman because of your FACIAL EXPRESSION, because apparently all orphans have magic mind reading skills".

I was disappointed that all that League of Shadows bullshit was brought up again. Tom Hardy should have had his own motivation, beyond "serving Ras Al Ghul". And why do Cotillard and Hardy even want to help him? By their own admittance, they hated him before he died. And then suddenly they decide they love him and want revenge for him and want to carry on his life's work? It was a lame, contrived motivation.

Batwing got roughly equal screentime to Bale.

Movie was pretty slow in the middle.

I was happy Cillian Murphy came back, even if it seems like Nolan just threw everyone from Inception into the movie.

Anne Hathaway was very good. Michael Caine was amazing.

[CrashGordon94]

Yeah, no. I'm asking if anyone straight up didn't like it.

Fair enough, I'll accept it from you.

[dondon151]

Having investigated these characters and their previous depictions in Batman lore, the characters in this film and their motives make a lot more sense. I can understand why some of the events can be perceived as plotholes, but I never really had an issue with any of that. I just didn't like the pacing.

I was disappointed that Joseph Dreamboat-Levitt spent like the whole movie with his dick in his hand. Helping orphans escape? Seriously? If he's going to be the next Batman, he better spend the whole movie kicking butt and taking names. And that bit where he was all "I figured out you were Batman because of your FACIAL EXPRESSION, because apparently all orphans have magic mind reading skills".

But Batman is all about the tools, accessories, and wits, not about superhuman anything. Unless you gave Blake an entire arsenal, he just can't kick butt like Batman does.

I was disappointed that all that League of Shadows bullshit was brought up again. Tom Hardy should have had his own motivation, beyond "serving Ras Al Ghul".

He's not serving Ra's. Talia is in charge here.

And why do Cotillard and Hardy even want to help him? By their own admittance, they hated him before he died.

I don't recall them ever saying this. Talia had the same ambitions as her father; she only resented the fact that he excommunicated Bane from the League of Shadows.

[Roosterofdoom]

if you were a true detective / fan of the series you would have recognized from the get go that

amanda tate was ras al ghul's daughter natalia, and her interest in the reactor was fishy. the only problem here concerning your 3rd point is that yes, bane IS an assassin in the lore, but in no way ever tied to natalia's original story

p.s. dagget in the animated series was always just a little fish in gotham's pool, like a splinter to batman / bruce, so i don't know why you expected him to do much as just the financial paper pusher

So what you're saying is: I should have known these completely stupid plot twists would happen because they happen in the rest of the series. I never claimed to be a "true fan". I am a fan of Batman, but admittedly don't know too much of his lore. I just wanted to see a good movie.

[buttmuncher.ops]

So what you're saying is: I should have known these completely stupid plot twists would happen because they happen in the rest of the series. I never claimed to be a "true fan". I am a fan of Batman, but admittedly don't know too much of his lore. I just wanted to see a good movie.

just saying the script stayed true to the director's own interpretation, call it somewhat "fanfiction" if you will, of what could have happened nearing the end of the original batman's career. if someone buys the trilogy a couple years from now and watches from the first movie to this last one, these won't be "plot twists" because it'll make sense as long as you stay within the trilogy's setting. batman begins started with bruce wayne's involvement with the society league of shadow assassins, and it comes back full circle in dark knight rises. it's even heavily stressed throughout the movie how "out of the game" people like batman and the commish are concerning modern day crime, and only in the moment of crisis when their beloved city is threatened can they "rise" up (concerning that contested plot point of yours.)

it's okay if you're not a hardcore fan, like i said, this movie was intended as a newgenfag crowd pleaser, so just take it for what it is. if you wanted to see a good movie, it's not a perfect movie, but yes, it was a good movie to me because i understood where the script and director was coming from in their interpretation of batman. as big of a fan i am of batman, i was willing to look past all the liberties they took with the lore: lucius fox is supposed to be a waynetech enterprises paper pusher and nothing more, joker never "created" two face, bane isn't natalia's bitch; and just enjoyed the movie for what it was.

even for big fans, the director / script still added in the little hints like

1. bruce wayne x natalia have a tryst => will we see a future movie involving their love child damian wayne, elite assassin at the age of 10 & the newest gen robin?

2. BLAKE being an obvious alliteration ploy of (TIM) DRAKE, 3rd robin.

3. daggett vs catwoman is also a big thing in the animated series, eventually batman intervening to "save" catwoman and take care of dagget. which i'm glad he took the time to work into the movie, as little of it there was

there's more shit like this throughout the entire trilogy. i'm sorry that the director went with a "try to please everyone" approach and therefore failed at pleasing a minority, you should honestly go get a refund if it was that big of a bust for you. but at the end of the day if you want to watch a movie coming from a high tier studio / director / writers (my opinion) and want to critique it, at least be willing to look deep into every scene, read between every line and find the hidden meaning / connection they put there for an attentive audience to find as part of the viewer's enjoyment.

Edited July 30, 2012 by CrossKnightsAtFortSilvail

[Original Alear]

As far as the big twist about Bane and Talia goes, you can actually figure it out if you have a critical eye when watching the movie. The two stories Nolan takes as Bane origin stories conflict. In one, he suffered terrible wounds while in the prison, and had to have the mask put on. In the other, the child, who Bruce assumes is Bane, has a protector who keeps the child unharmed until the child escapes. The second origin story makes it clear that the child wasn't harmed when the mother was killed due to the protector's interference, and makes it likely that the child escaped from the prison unharmed; moreover, it indicates that the guardian was maimed severely. Keeping all this in mind, it becomes clear before the "reveal" that Bane was the guardian, and that the child is someone else.

From there, you probably have to know Batman lore to have a guess as to why the child might be a woman, esp someone with a romantic link with Bruce Wayne. But you should have been aware of the possibility that there would be two villains or something like that. The plot twist was not out of the blue. Then again, if you didn't catch it, neither did Batman.

What I actually hated most about the movie was the twist that the way to climb out of a well is to climb without the aid of a rope, or whatever.

Edited August 7, 2012 by L1049